Winchester

[MOC] Turning 60051 into a *real* Inter-City Express

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I really liked the *idea* of 60051, it has sleek modern lines and everything you want in a modern high speed train... except due to Lego's format, it's way short. It's not just five cars short of a full train, the cars themselves are basically half their scale length.

So I decided to fix it:

NsMT2e5l.png

Problem number one with the train set, if you want to use it to replicate an ICE-3 (which is what it's closest to looking like unmodded), is that the length of the cars are way short. So I fixed that, by using two 6x24 train baseplates for the end cars, and two 6x28 train baseplates for all the other cars. That netted me a length of about 58-59 studs per car, which is very close to 1/50 scale. It also gives more room to work with for an interior (which I haven't made yet).

Problem number two with it is that the real train has really close connections between the cars, and 60051 as built has not just a 1 stud air gap, but the airlock thingies add another two studs to the total. This took a bunch of revision before I hit on a decent method, and I'm still not entirely satisfied with it. Basically I did away with the magnets entirely, and the actual coupling between the train cars is a 4x4 round plate that sits on a jumper on each train car, with another jumper on the same axis at the top connected to the roof of the train. In real life, it would probably be too stiff for use on an actual track, but it *will* bend, and it's the closest I've been able to manage at this point. But the result of it is that the connection between the cars is reduced to 1 stud in length, and there's no air gap at all. 

And problem number three was that there wasn't enough cars. The real train has eight cars - two end cars (one first, one second class), three regular passenger cars without a pantograph (one first, two second class); two passenger cars with a pantograph (one of each class); and the bistro car. I've so far made the end cars, the regular cars, and the pantograph-equipped ones, and the Bistro car is up next. But I also decided to have some fun and make the double-decker car that some of the older ICE trains had. It uses a brick-built base, so there's no edge "skirt" around the top of the boogies unlike the others, which is a thing I'd like to fix if I can, but I am fresh out of ideas for that...

 

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Great idea overall. For the trucks  on the double deck wagons you can use 1x2 or 1x4 panels attached upside down (using some SNOT) like I did on my BR 10 steam engine.

Also great idea with the cylinders between the coaches. But I think this will not work well. The pivot point of each wagon is where the trucks are attached to the body of the wagon, not at the end of the body. Just push a pair of slightly longer wagons through switches and you will see the enormous gap between the two wagons. I would like to see your solution going through curves and switches.

What about an individually brick build noise rather using this, sorry, ugly one purpose element? 

Happy bricking,

Holger

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2 hours ago, HoMa said:

Great idea overall. For the trucks  on the double deck wagons you can use 1x2 or 1x4 panels attached upside down (using some SNOT) like I did on my BR 10 steam engine.

Also great idea with the cylinders between the coaches. But I think this will not work well. The pivot point of each wagon is where the trucks are attached to the body of the wagon, not at the end of the body. Just push a pair of slightly longer wagons through switches and you will see the enormous gap between the two wagons. I would like to see your solution going through curves and switches.

What about an individually brick build noise rather using this, sorry, ugly one purpose element? 

Happy bricking,

Holger

 

It's not meant for a standard Lego layout, those have problems even with the length of cars that Lego designs themselves. This is a scale model, meant for scale track layouts, with turn radii in the hundreds of studs. If I've done my math right, the full eight car train can bend somewhere around 80 degrees, maybe as much as 90 - in four meters of track. Which sounds about right compared to the real thing. Also, I didn't motorize it at all, so it's basically a static model. 

 

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I don't remember the ICE ever having a double decker car. The ICE 1 has a raised roof, but this is just to let more light into the dining car, as far as I am aware of. Not that you then can't make it.

class_401_intercity_express_ice_1_train_

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Ah thanks, I wasn't working from any kind of references for that, just a half remembered "didn't I see this somewhere?". It doesn't really belong on that train anyway, I just did it for fun to work out how. :)

From the look of those profiles, ICE 1 would be a lot easier to do as a motorized train than ICE 3, not only are the motor cars just motor cars, they also have the extended boogies that look like the Lego train motors already. That saves a lot of trouble.

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2 hours ago, macnavi said:

I don't remember the ICE ever having a double decker car. The ICE 1 has a raised roof, but this is just to let more light into the dining car, as far as I am aware of. Not that you then can't make it.

It's just an unwritten law of upgrading standard Lego sets. Just like every Emerald Night for some reason needs an American style caboose. It makes no bloody sense, it's just what Lego train fans do. I used to get riled up by people doing this, now I just don't bother, as long as my own MoCs make sense to me, I'm happy. 

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Your 60051 mod looks pretty sweet, Winchester.
 

2 hours ago, Redimus said:

It's just an unwritten law of upgrading standard Lego sets. Just like every Emerald Night for some reason needs an American style caboose. It makes no bloody sense, it's just what Lego train fans do. I used to get riled up by people doing this, now I just don't bother, as long as my own MoCs make sense to me, I'm happy. 

Yeah, people adding a caboose to the end of Emerald Night consists never made sense to me, either... I mean if they wanted something like that on the end of the train, all they'd need to do is remove the cupola, call it a brake van or guard van, and it would be regionally correct. ;)

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4 hours ago, Redimus said:

It's just an unwritten law of upgrading standard Lego sets. Just like every Emerald Night for some reason needs an American style caboose. It makes no bloody sense, it's just what Lego train fans do. I used to get riled up by people doing this, now I just don't bother, as long as my own MoCs make sense to me, I'm happy. 

That's why my consist plans are for a open deck observation platform 

@Winchester

I'm not familiar with the real train but yours looks well assembled... Do you plan to build other versions? 

Edited by Roadmonkeytj

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3 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

That's why my consist plans are for a open deck observation platform 

@Winchester

I'm not familiar with the real train but yours looks well assembled... Do you plan to build other versions? 

If you mean color variations (because the real trains are used in at least three different liveries that I can name off hand, and possibly a few more that I've forgotten about), then yes, I've already worked out how to do a few. Problem is, they're digital only, because that train front only exists in white. :(

If you mean older versions of the same style, sure, now that I know how to do the coupling mechanism, there's nothing stopping me from doing something very similar with 7879, which looks very much like an older version of this anyway.

I've also done an extended version of the Horizon Express, but it's not full length like this just yet, though it does have appropriate boogies (the real train has shared boogies between most of the cars, only the first and second cars from each end have non-shared boogies).

2LnbtLal.png

Here's a set of rails with an overhead power transfer system I made a while back, working out how to do that was an interesting exercise to be sure. Also featured are the original 60051 and 7879 with some extra cars to make them longer. 

G25WwMyl.png

I've also done some work on rolling stock for cargo trains, here's a set of European-style trailer transport cars I made, easily converted into double-decker container carrier cars for full size freight containers (just add sides...) They actually fit under the same overhead lines as the other trains, at least with just trailers loaded. I have a US style flatbed car for trailer transport as well, but that doesn't work on electrified European railroads. 

Edited by Winchester

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1 hour ago, Winchester said:

now that I know how to do the coupling mechanism, there's nothing stopping me from doing something very similar with 7879, which looks very much like an older version of this anyway.

Can you share some or pics of your  coupling method? I'm looking for alternatives for my monorail.

Very nice work btw. I like the double decker.

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33 minutes ago, sed6 said:

Can you share some or pics of your  coupling method? I'm looking for alternatives for my monorail.

Very nice work btw. I like the double decker.

I don't know how useful it would be for an actual motorized train, LDD says you can only get 11 and a bit degrees of bend out of the whole assembly and it will probably be quite stiff to bend in the first place, but I've made a close-up picture for you. 

C1ReXUPl.png

Basically the bottom of the hinge is a 4x4 plate with two jumpers arranged as shown. The top of the hinge is two 2x2 round tiles with one stud, which hold the cylinder halves together; and which in turn are held in place by the center pin of the roof piece. The cylinder halves come in 2 brick and 5 brick heights, I used one of each basically because it fit rather perfectly once I had it together. 

It should be possible to modify the construction to provide a two-stud gap between the train cars, by putting the pivot points at the edges of the cylinder (use 2x1 jumpers at the top, and use a 2x1 plate to interface with the jumper at the bottom), which should give the train a whole lot more ability to bend - but it will still be kind of stiff due to the joints being jumper plates. 

 

 

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That's a neat design and a creative solution for joining the cars. Thanks for sharing!

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On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 3:12 AM, Winchester said:

It should be possible to modify the construction to provide a two-stud gap between the train cars, by putting the pivot points at the edges of the cylinder (use 2x1 jumpers at the top, and use a 2x1 plate to interface with the jumper at the bottom), which should give the train a whole lot more ability to bend - but it will still be kind of stiff due to the joints being jumper plates

This design is really neat!

I believe though that it is not the ability to bend but rather the fact that the cars "swing out", when negotiating e.g. S-curves? Your design would (I believe!) work well with Jacobs boogies. I would give them a little space for lateral movement - in case you want to climb bridges etc.

Here is a link to a train very similar to your very nice 7879 MOD shown in picture with 60051 and 7879 (MLCAD as well as instruction). I have that one running on my layout - the coupling though is just with 5L Technic 1/2 lift arms.

Thanks again for sharing!!!

All the best,
Thorsten     

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Just now, Toastie said:

This design is really neat!

I believe though that it is not the ability to bend but rather the fact that the cars "swing out", when negotiating e.g. S-curves? Your design would (I believe!) work well with Jacobs boogies. I would give them a little space for lateral movement - in case you want to climb bridges etc.

Here is a link to a train very similar to your very nice 7879 MOD shown in picture with 60051 and 7879 (MLCAD as well as instruction). I have that one running on my layout - the coupling though is just with 5L Technic 1/2 lift arms.

Thanks again for sharing!!!

All the best,
Thorsten     

Thanks for the feedback.

Just to re-iterate though - this is meant as a scale model to match some of my other work, it's not meant as a practical "can go around a standard Lego track" play set. Getting it to look accurate was my primary consideration throughout the build - that's why the cars have their own boogies, and why I bothered designing the coupling method the way I did. I do use Jacobs boogies where it is appropriate to do so - it just wasn't for this particular train. (The Horizon express on the other hand... though not for the whole set, as the first three boogies at each end of the train are similar to these in real life). 

For some reason, I can't resist building everything ridiculously huge in LDD - I have a fire station that would fill half my living room if I built it in real life; with 20 different vehicles and a 3-story office-and-barracks building with conference rooms, a dispatch central, and a gymnasium; I've been working off and on for some time on a truck cargo terminal that looks like it's going to be just as monstrous in size; and if I ever build a train station don't expect it to fit in your average house...

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kqnnEI9l.png

I felt a little inspired, so I made some changes to the train to make it into a Eurostar train instead of an ICE - more color variation is always good, right? :)

I've revised the window layout radically, as well as the roof of the train. The Eurostar, while being based on the same train as the ICE 3, is double the length - I haven't found references for all the car types yet, so I haven't built more than the first four though, and even the ones I have built aren't completely finished.

This train is *definitely* a static display piece, because in order to get the doors into their proper locations, there's a bunch things that hang on only a single stud that would *not* agree with trying to go around any kind of bend. :)

 

 

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It's been a while that you've posted it, but just wanted to let you know I love the way you've done the Eurostar. That is a set I would buy!

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