Emerald Night MOD

[Roadmonkeytj]

So as promised I finally got some pictures of it on a layout. But first some back story.   The EN was released during my dark period and I had no idea it existed till early this year.   I was fortunate enough that a coworker was getting out of Lego's and got one for a decent price.   So I dug out an oval of track and much to my dismay the engine ran horribly or simply derailed.  It was a good looking engine so I pulled the PF and made it a static model.   A month went by and I had decided I will make this train run come Brickworld Ft Wayne.  I tried the motorized tender option but did not like the look.  So I ripped the thing apart and put her on a diet all the center section came out and a L motor went in.   A custom "gearbox" needed assembled.  I rebuilt it 13 times before I found a solution I was both happy with overall speed and torque, also that didn't blow apart after an hour of running lol. 

The front trucks have been reworked to not derail and @zephyr1934 worked with me to get his custom rods and valve gear running good.   

After many hours on the test oval I felt she was ready for the show.   

Once at the show I soon discovered she hates switches... So much help was needed getting her on the main off the siding.  Then I found she hates uneven track lol so I did some more reworking and that solved most of the wheel slip (the front and rear boogies would lift the drive wheels) allowing the front to pivot seemed to resolve most of this. 

So it ran around our Lugs layout and ran into the first issue (my train was the first steam train to ever run on this layout)  the rods hit the station platform!  So we moved it a stud and a half back and it was good but then it came to the elevated section.  It ran up the hill (fairly steep) without issue but once at the elevated station its canopy hit the light guards then the rods the platform.  So it was committed to a siding as the elevated would take too much rework. 

Fortunately another steam display was willing to let her stretch her legs.  First we ran it with the stock car that came with the set ... then we hooked her up to a rake of coal.   (I won't mention his name as I'm not sure if he's OK with being mentioned but I'm sure many of you know him...  Hats off to you sir)  It was great to see her run and my boys loved watching it run! 

Again thanks to all! 

I am working with a light company to light the firebox and the rear tender. 

Now to work on my Lug to increase track clearance for steam lol. 

Update: as she currently sits.  Added brickstuffs custom lighting.  Replaced the original pf lights with LEDs' installed flickering fire in the firebox and a rear lamp on the tender.

[sed6]

Great story! I like the interior pic of how you made it work. I presume that's you in the cab of the loco getting a lesson from the engineer? I bet it was a joy to see her pulling the coal cars. Congrats!

[pagicence]

So, what is the gearing output from the PF L to the drive wheels? I'm trying to do something similar so I'll appreciate the info.

[Roadmonkeytj]

1 hour ago, sed6 said:

Great story! I like the interior pic of how you made it work. I presume that's you in the cab of the loco getting a lesson from the engineer? I bet it was a joy to see her pulling the coal cars. Congrats!

Oh yes...  I think I may have to build some hoppers now lol.   That's the driver and the fireman lol I couldn't fit a full engine crew so I included the two main lol. 

56 minutes ago, pagicence said:

So, what is the gearing output from the PF L to the drive wheels? I'm trying to do something similar so I'll appreciate the info.

Quite honestly I don't know the exact ratio.   I can give you what gears contact which if you want to calculate.  My method was assemble a box and test...  Will it pull five cars on a tight loop at decent speed? If not then rebuild...  There were three versions after the one I'm using but They did not preform the way I wanted so I went back to this.   

[dr_spock]

Cool story.  Have you tried EN with the XL motor before?   We had to take drivers off one side of a steam engine too because it was hitting the train station platform.  It's interesting what gets left out in the layout collaboration planning stage. 

 

[pagicence]

10 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

I can give you what gears contact which if you want to calculate.

Yes, please do. That will help a lot.

[Roadmonkeytj]

10 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Cool story.  Have you tried EN with the XL motor before?   We had to take drivers off one side of a steam engine too because it was hitting the train station platform.  It's interesting what gets left out in the layout collaboration planning stage. 

 

My issue with the xl motor is it takes the entire cab...  And I wanted to maintain the firebox and figs.   Unless I widen the boiler it would not fit In there either.   

Yea we have been talking about creating some "building standards" for the trains to better fit together at shows.   It began with tunnel talks as we want to add elevation and hills to the layout in the future.   With the custom rods I need 2 studs beyond the sleepers. (currently the only trains that ran on it were 6w diesel/electrics) with no previous overhang the  buildings had been set very close to the straights 

[Roadmonkeytj]

4 hours ago, pagicence said:

Yes, please do. That will help a lot.

this is its current set up … oddly its similar to the original gearing lol but this is giving me a decent speed and good torque.  the gears off the motor can not be substituted for a regular 12 tooth gear as they sandwich the 16 tooth to allow it to sit lower and not bind. the red is the driving axel.  if you want I can put together the version in the picture (previous revision).  it had more torque but I felt it was too slow

Edited October 16, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Simply delightful!

The side rods are very sleek!

[pagicence]

Thanks @Roadmonkeytj. From the picture I can see that you are running 1:1 gear ratio. That's good to know that the PF L has enough torque and speed so that it doesn't need to be gear down more. This is great optimal value.

[Roadmonkeytj]

4 hours ago, pagicence said:

Thanks @Roadmonkeytj. From the picture I can see that you are running 1:1 gear ratio. That's good to know that the PF L has enough torque and speed so that it doesn't need to be gear down more. This is great optimal value.

Im not sure that's right though since the 16 tooth and 24 tooth are a driving and driven not a following gear. 

Unless my math is off I'm getting 1.251:1

Edited October 17, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj

[sed6]

On 10/15/2018 at 6:24 PM, pagicence said:

So, what is the gearing output from the PF L to the drive wheels? I'm trying to do something similar so I'll appreciate the info.

@pagicence Here's a good gear ratio calculator courtesy of our very own Sariel. 

http://gears.sariel.pl

[Roadmonkeytj]

7 hours ago, sed6 said:

@pagicence Here's a good gear ratio calculator courtesy of our very own Sariel. 

http://gears.sariel.pl

haha that was the very one I was using to compare my math lol

[rahziel]

This was fun to read, specially the parts where «she hates» this or that... yes is true, I completely agree, the EN has a temper, and a lot of tweaking to make her run smooth, nevertheless is the most beautifull locomotive LEGO did, to me of course...

[Roadmonkeytj]

45 minutes ago, rahziel said:

This was fun to read, specially the parts where «she hates» this or that... yes is true, I completely agree, the EN has a temper, and a lot of tweaking to make her run smooth, nevertheless is the most beautifull locomotive LEGO did, to me of course...

Thank you.  yes it was a very elegant train indeed … so I tried to keep it true … as best I could.  I still have a few more tweeks I want to do to improve her … yes its a her lol

[rahziel]

3 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Thank you.  yes it was a very elegant train indeed … so I tried to keep it true … as best I could.  I still have a few more tweeks I want to do to improve her … yes its a her lol

hehe, of course its a "her," needs a lot of work and has lots of quirks, but sure is fun to play with it...

[pagicence]

22 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Im not sure that's right though since the 16 tooth and 24 tooth are a driving and driven not a following gear. 

Unless my math is off I'm getting 1.251:1

Yup, my mistake, I calculated wrong.

 

15 hours ago, sed6 said:

@pagicence Here's a good gear ratio calculator courtesy of our very own Sariel. 

http://gears.sariel.pl

I know all about it. Still, I somehow managed to calculate wrong.

[zephyr1934]

That was a brilliant improvement to the EN, putting the motor inside the boiler instead of consuming all of the cab. Meanwhile, I feel your pain about learning the meaning of "clearance"

[Roadmonkeytj]

On 10/25/2018 at 1:12 AM, zephyr1934 said:

That was a brilliant improvement to the EN, putting the motor inside the boiler instead of consuming all of the cab. Meanwhile, I feel your pain about learning the meaning of "clearance"

It really seems like a whole new engine with your rods and valve gear. And I'm glad you approve!  The Lug is relatively new and we are still in talks about "standard design" for colab layouts.  Plus it had always been one guy who managed the trains with no steam on the rails. So it worked for his stock and standard Lego stock. 

[Fingolfin]

On 10/15/2018 at 12:13 PM, Roadmonkeytj said:

Apologies for necroing this thread. I would have messaged @Roadmonkeytj directly, but it seem that I'm not allowed to send messages yet.

I'm very interested in doing something similar with my EN, only using a PU Large motor instead. By any chance, do you have a parts list/diagram or a stud.io file that shows the mods you made to the interior of the boiler? I'm struggling to piece it together from your pics.

Great job, btw!

[blavenn]

Yeah I'm tempted to do the same mods to mine as well

[lego3057]

My experience, tells me that motorizing the steam engines is not easy, in general. The best is achieved by direct vertical position of the motor or motors, but here we are talking about 8 or 9 wide locos to have enough space. One of the problems that arises if you install the motor horizontally, is that doesn´t keep in place (it´s difficult to secure). So, the pushing solution is, in my view, a better solution, in these cases. Now, about the derailment problem, the EN should do switches and all other Lego tracks without any modifications, even in the "pushing mode".

[Toxic43]

On 3/24/2023 at 4:21 AM, Fingolfin said:

Apologies for necroing this thread. I would have messaged @Roadmonkeytj directly, but it seem that I'm not allowed to send messages yet.

I'm very interested in doing something similar with my EN, only using a PU Large motor instead. By any chance, do you have a parts list/diagram or a stud.io file that shows the mods you made to the interior of the boiler? I'm struggling to piece it together from your pics.

Great job, btw!

Something similar I did was to get two PF L Motors into the boiler, because, you know... overkill.

The gearing is 1:1, using 12 tooth bevel gears. One single bevel 12t on each motor, both driving a common vertical shaft again with a 12 tooth above the chassis driving another 12t single which is below the chassis. This in turn drives all 6 wheels, which I know is pointless as the middle drivers are blind, but as I said... overkill was kind of the point with this one. 

I can probably take it apart a bit at some point for more photos and I'll have a look around to see if I have a stud.io file for it. Maybe not though as I made this one in real bricks mainly.

[Fingolfin]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:17 AM, Toxic43 said:

The gearing is 1:1, using 12 tooth bevel gears. One single bevel 12t on each motor, both driving a common vertical shaft again with a 12 tooth above the chassis driving another 12t single which is below the chassis. This in turn drives all 6 wheels, which I know is pointless as the middle drivers are blind, but as I said... overkill was kind of the point with this one. 

I can probably take it apart a bit at some point for more photos and I'll have a look around to see if I have a stud.io file for it. Maybe not though as I made this one in real bricks mainly.

If you are able to provide more detail, that would be awesome. Completely understand if it's too much trouble.

I'm pretty sure that could be adapted to support the PU motors fairly easily.

Cheers!

[Toxic43]

On 4/2/2023 at 6:25 AM, Fingolfin said:

If you are able to provide more detail, that would be awesome. Completely understand if it's too much trouble.

I'm pretty sure that could be adapted to support the PU motors fairly easily.

Cheers!

No problem. Tore it apart on my lunch break and got the following for you:

So, first off... it's 4wd not 6wd as I remembered it. The blind drivers are just held in place with 2L axles and pins connecting to the coupling rods for as little friction as possible.

Here you can see that centre axle between the two motors which connects to the gears in the chassis below.

And below you can see how the motors and the extension are wired in and where the plugs are stored in the smokebox. The motor wires aren't long enough to reach back into the tender, so I added the extension. Now I have too much cable. I have plenty of spare extensions though so I'm, considering cutting one down just for this loco to give me the perfect length.

Please excuse all the dust on the pictures. I haven't had this one out in quite some time. It's just sat in the dusty attic. I'll get it cleaned up and running again over the summer. Maybe...

To add to the above, powered up will be an issue with dual motors because there isn't currently an extension cable. The motor wires aren't any longer, so unless you can orient the motors on top of each other or side by side with the wires both facing towards the back, you'll have an issue getting them to the battery box.