Brick-Wombat

[MOC] Midi Venator - In Progress

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Post #1 - October 6, 2018

I was originally inspired by @krisandkris12's Venator. While waiting for his instructions, I decided to give the venerable ship a try, albeit at a slightly smaller scale. 

The ship is currently 37 studs in length, which makes me even more excited for @onecase's ISD instructions as they'll scale very well together.

This is a rough pass at it, and a lot still needs to be improved.

 

A couple of future changes include...

-Turrets needs to be spread out more

-Backside taper of the bridge is too shallow

-Trenches are currently hollow

-Needs more engine detail

-Nose turbo lasers need a hull recess

-A myriad of other subtle inaccurate details

 

Spoiler

W0RVNg2.jpg

xjqa4wo.jpg

EYGjVZH.jpg

 

Update - October 10, 2018

Summary of changes

- Fixed tail

- Changed bridge from brick build to plate build

- Added detail around turbo lasers

- Added trans blue 1x2 to side hangar bays and closing doors

- Changed engine detail and layout

Spoiler

e7pwoLY.png

 

Update - October 14, 2018

Summary of changes

- Lowered the top two hull pieces by one plate to make the spine protrude and to make a shallower profile front and back.

-Switched to stud.io since LDD didn't have the 2x2 corner tiles.

Spoiler

 

AontkFo.png

G87XPYN.jpg

 

 

Update - October 17, 2018

Summary of changes

- Made the tail taller

-Changed length of small and large engine

- Moved the command tower forward and added tiling on the side

- Filled in the trench a little better

-Widened the ventral hangar bay

Spoiler

ytWf9uL.jpg

RMqBXKv.jpg

1Fk8I1I.jpg

fofXn9y.jpg

 

 

Edited by K_W

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I don't know what to say :blush: You made this good looking build from scratch faster than I put together piece of instructions :sweet: I feel like world might stop turning before I am finished with that. Anyway, I'm glad that my work inspired this, a very well done rendition in even considerably smaller scale.

I have just recently put an acknowledgment in the instructions intro, regarding few builders who tackled Venator in this scale, namely @Brickdoctor, @simplethinker and Alexandre Bigeard, but it seems I have to reorganize it now, because yours might just as well be the best looking one!

The proportions don't look half as distorted as in some of the aforementioned (yet still respectable) builds and overall, from any kind of distance it would suggest a larger model than it actually is.

The only thing I am not super keen on first glance is the corner tile on the side of the bridge tower. Looks slightly outa place.

Regarding your improvement list, I suggest using dark grey round barrels for the bigger thruster ends. I don't think a recess for the twin guns is strictly necessary in this scale, unless you find some really elegant way to suggest it without overcomplicating the structure of the hull plating. Last I would rebuild the end of the tail a bit, I think you can do better than having a plate and a tile on top of the slope brick, which creates some extraneous step over there.

Love to see this, great work!

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7 hours ago, krisandkris12 said:

I don't know what to say :blush: You made this good looking build from scratch faster than I put together piece of instructions :sweet: I feel like world might stop turning before I am finished with that. Anyway, I'm glad that my work inspired this, a very well done rendition in even considerably smaller scale.

I have just recently put an acknowledgment in the instructions intro, regarding few builders who tackled Venator in this scale, namely @Brickdoctor, @simplethinker and Alexandre Bigeard, but it seems I have to reorganize it now, because yours might just as well be the best looking one!

The proportions don't look half as distorted as in some of the aforementioned (yet still respectable) builds and overall, from any kind of distance it would suggest a larger model than it actually is.

The only thing I am not super keen on first glance is the corner tile on the side of the bridge tower. Looks slightly outa place.

Regarding your improvement list, I suggest using dark grey round barrels for the bigger thruster ends. I don't think a recess for the twin guns is strictly necessary in this scale, unless you find some really elegant way to suggest it without overcomplicating the structure of the hull plating. Last I would rebuild the end of the tail a bit, I think you can do better than having a plate and a tile on top of the slope brick, which creates some extraneous step over there.

Love to see this, great work!

 

I completely agree with your suggestions. The corner tile is a placeholder until I come up with a more attractive look. I wanted some sort of texture there, but not at the expense of accuracy. I'll definitely fix that. 

I was originally playing with some more complex builds for the thrusters, but they didn't look that good. Grey barrels are probably the way to go. 

As for the tail, I'll likely do a side build as you did. In this case it'll be 2x2 instead of 3x3. 

Honestly, I need to start doing this via LDD. It would make the decision process for part selection a lot quicker compared to rummaging through my current inventory! 

Edited by K_W

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3 hours ago, K_W said:

The corner tile is a placeholder until I come up with a more attractive look.

given your smaller scale, i feel like 3 stud wide bridge tower is already pushing the limit of maximum acceptable width w.r.t. reasonable accuracy. Not sure if adding another tiles is even beneficial here. I agree on adding texture but I would go for something embedded in the wall thickness.

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On 10/7/2018 at 10:44 AM, Ellisss_2 said:

Great Venator, keep up the work I am looking forward to the final version!

 

On 10/7/2018 at 1:06 PM, Makin Bacon said:

Very excellent build, love the angles you captured, especially at such a small scale

 

6 hours ago, WTFett said:

Really cool!

 

I appreciate the kind words! 

 

On 10/7/2018 at 4:05 PM, krisandkris12 said:

given your smaller scale, i feel like 3 stud wide bridge tower is already pushing the limit of maximum acceptable width w.r.t. reasonable accuracy. Not sure if adding another tiles is even beneficial here. I agree on adding texture but I would go for something embedded in the wall thickness.

 

Yeah, 3 studs is already thick. Admittedly, I'm still debating whether it's better to use plates or bricks for the sides of the bridge. Playing around with both in LDD to see which looks best. Speaking of LDD, I have two annoyances. First, it doesn't seem to play nice with multiple hinges. I have one set of hinges that create the vertical taper and another set of hinges that the four primary plates rest on to complete the shape. LDD will only let me do one at a time for whatever reason. :hmpf_bad:

Another gripe is that I can't find the 2x2 flat triangle piece in the database despite using the Extended version. 

In the meantime, I placed a small order which includes the gray barrels. I should have a good update in a week or so. Again, thanks for the solid suggestion! :classic:

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15 hours ago, K_W said:

Yeah, 3 studs is already thick. Admittedly, I'm still debating whether it's better to use plates or bricks for the sides of the bridge. Playing around with both in LDD to see which looks best. Speaking of LDD, I have two annoyances. First, it doesn't seem to play nice with multiple hinges. I have one set of hinges that create the vertical taper and another set of hinges that the four primary plates rest on to complete the shape. LDD will only let me do one at a time for whatever reason. :hmpf_bad:

Another gripe is that I can't find the 2x2 flat triangle piece in the database despite using the Extended version. 

In the meantime, I placed a small order which includes the gray barrels. I should have a good update in a week or so. Again, thanks for the solid suggestion! :classic:

Thats why I ultimately bailed on LDD and kept designing IRL. It is more expensive but somewhat more fun. Lately, mainly due to making instructions, I transitioned to stud.io and I feel like it does better than LDD in most aspects. And the part library is more complete (i.e. including the triangular tile ;) ) plus you can quite easily add custom parts provided you have .dat file for it, but since it works with LDRaw library which is very well maintained online, it's easy to find any missing part you need and add it.

Btw using plates/tiles for the sides of the bridge is legit. Especially with the new tiles and corner brackets it may work out nice.

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3 hours ago, krisandkris12 said:

Thats why I ultimately bailed on LDD and kept designing IRL. It is more expensive but somewhat more fun. Lately, mainly due to making instructions, I transitioned to stud.io and I feel like it does better than LDD in most aspects. And the part library is more complete (i.e. including the triangular tile ;) ) plus you can quite easily add custom parts provided you have .dat file for it, but since it works with LDRaw library which is very well maintained online, it's easy to find any missing part you need and add it.

Btw using plates/tiles for the sides of the bridge is legit. Especially with the new tiles and corner brackets it may work out nice.

 

Lots of images inbound! You've been warned.

 

For starters, I figured out my first issue with the hinges. While I'm still vexed that LDD is missing some pieces, this'll do for now. (side note, can you import LDD files into stud.io?)

Again, Kris, thank you for your responses. This is basically a mini version of your own design, so your feedback is invaluable!

Alright, on to the main course. Venator Rev A

Spoiler

I swapped out the brick build tower with a plate build. I also changed the bridge a bit and fixed the rear slope. 

Added trans-blue for the side hangar bays with closing doors. 

 

e7pwoLY.png

Added some detailing around the turbo lasers. 

TvoA6kC.png

 

The nose turbo lasers are a bit too low, but I haven't come up with a good solution for that yet. 

3jpwFj0.png

I used your side build method for the tail and redesigned/reorganized the thrusters. Also add the 2x4 dark gray angled plates with a slight slope and the 3x8 light gray angled plate as the bottom "flaps".

htQRepc.png

Hangar doors slide shut. 

LqpnCfM.png

 

 

And, just for fun... a non-canonical "battlecruiser" variant of the Venator. More guns, less hangar space. 

-The 4x dual  turbos on the side of the bridge have been replaced with 3x quads.

-3x dual turbos added to the dorsal spine (similar to the ISD)

-Ventral Hangar bay removed to make room for an enlarged reactor which protrudes out the bottom (much like the ISD).

Spoiler

1J1uy6u.png

tdJgW3g.png

 

Edited by K_W

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^ You can import LDD, you gotta expect some issues if you have fishy (read complex) geometries in your model. I heard that imports got more buggy after releasing alpha version of studio 2.0, but I don't have my own experience.

I like the updates very much and I also like the version on gun steroids :D

The proportions look really good from all the angles!

I am not a fan of the 1 stud connection of the 1x3 tile holding the trans plate for command bridges. I would usggest using just 1x1 trans for the windows and then 1x3 plate underneath the rest of the tile to connect everything more securely.

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28 minutes ago, krisandkris12 said:

^ You can import LDD, you gotta expect some issues if you have fishy (read complex) geometries in your model. I heard that imports got more buggy after releasing alpha version of studio 2.0, but I don't have my own experience.

I like the updates very much and I also like the version on gun steroids :D

The proportions look really good from all the angles!

I am not a fan of the 1 stud connection of the 1x3 tile holding the trans plate for command bridges. I would usggest using just 1x1 trans for the windows and then 1x3 plate underneath the rest of the tile to connect everything more securely.

 

Good catch! I guess that's another advantage of IRL designing. Durability issues are more readily apparent than they are in a virtual sandbox. 

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Still some things I'm not 100% happy with, but it's getting closer. 

Stud.io was definitely a huge improvement over LDD. 

Spoiler

AontkFo.png

Spoiler

G87XPYN.jpg

 

Edited by K_W

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6 hours ago, K_W said:

Still some things I'm not 100% happy with, but it's getting closer. 

Stud.io was definitely a huge improvement over LDD. 

AontkFo.png

G87XPYN.jpg

Wow, looking great now! 

With regards, to Stud.io is it really that advantageous, I’m still on LDD!:blush:

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7 hours ago, Ellisss_2 said:

Wow, looking great now! 

With regards, to Stud.io is it really that advantageous, I’m still on LDD!:blush:

LDD feels more intuitive and streamlined due to its simplicity. Stud.io gives more versatility. In this case, the latter had some key pieces that LDD lacked, and it also does nice renders. 

I'll probably continue using LDD for 90% of stuff and simply import the model into stud.io toward the end. 

Edited by K_W

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Wow, fantastic.  I honestly wouldn’t have thought getting the sloped hull plates would ever work at this size, but you did it!  I love the use of the new corner tiles.  I might have to see about upgrading mine with some....

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6 hours ago, simplethinker said:

Wow, fantastic.  I honestly wouldn’t have thought getting the sloped hull plates would ever work at this size, but you did it!  I love the use of the new corner tiles.  I might have to see about upgrading mine with some....

 

It's really tight inside. Instead of using technic bricks and pins, I had to use plates and hinges to get it so narrow. As such, the bottom plates are held in place by friction. The current iteration has hinges covering a length of 8 studs... which is a bit excessive. 2 studs is too loose and the plates will drop. 4 studs is sufficient, but I expect they may loosen over time. 6 studs is probably ideal. It's because of this that I haven't added more detailing to the bottom of the hull. I'm trying to keep them as lean as possible! 

Admittedly, I really wish I could get the nose down to 2 studs wide like yours instead of 4 studs. Currently, the nose is a bit too blunt, but I guess I'll have to live with that. Regarding the open circle fleet logo on your Venator, are those stickers?

And I can't claim credit for the corner tiles. I stole that from @krisandkris12. Truthfully, the whole design is essentially a scaled down version of his design, so he really deserves most of the credit for the aesthetic. I just re-imagined the structure.

Speaking of aesthetic, I made some more changes to the tail, the engines, and the tower that make it much more accurate. I'll upload those eventually.

 

Edited by K_W

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Yeah, i tried the hinges and I couldn’t get it to work. But then again I haven’t worked on the body of the thing for a couple of years.  Yeah, the open circle fleet is stickers.  I knew the 2 x 2 tile existed with that sticker in some set or other, so I brick linked it. I think I may try using those corner tiles along the side of my towers and see how it looks.

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17 minutes ago, simplethinker said:

Yeah, i tried the hinges and I couldn’t get it to work. But then again I haven’t worked on the body of the thing for a couple of years.  Yeah, the open circle fleet is stickers.  I knew the 2 x 2 tile existed with that sticker in some set or other, so I brick linked it. I think I may try using those corner tiles along the side of my towers and see how it looks.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna ditch that yellow 1x1 round tile. It's just so small and it looks weird. If I want the logo, I'll just have to get the sticker. 

On a side note, I checked out some of your other work. Excellent stuff man!! I REALLY like your Falcon and Ghost mocs! 

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4 minutes ago, K_W said:

 

Yeah, I'm gonna ditch that yellow 1x1 round tile. It's just so small and it looks weird. If I want the logo, I'll just have to get the sticker. 

On a side note, I checked out some of your other work. Excellent stuff man!! I REALLY like your Falcon and Ghost mocs! 

Yeah, I had the same thoughts.  Before it was just blank like it was from a different t fleet or something, but the logo breaks things up a bit.  

Thank you!  The ghost and falcon are my best.  The custom sticker work on the ghost was a pain though.  cut the little pieces myself with a razor blade.  The venator holds a special place in my heart because it was the first. 

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On 10/7/2018 at 4:12 AM, krisandkris12 said:

I don't know what to say :blush: You made this good looking build from scratch faster than I put together piece of instructions :sweet: I feel like world might stop turning before I am finished with that. Anyway, I'm glad that my work inspired this, a very well done rendition in even considerably smaller scale.

I have just recently put an acknowledgment in the instructions intro, regarding few builders who tackled Venator in this scale, namely @Brickdoctor, @simplethinker and Alexandre Bigeard, but it seems I have to reorganize it now, because yours might just as well be the best looking one!

The proportions don't look half as distorted as in some of the aforementioned (yet still respectable) builds and overall, from any kind of distance it would suggest a larger model than it actually is.

The only thing I am not super keen on first glance is the corner tile on the side of the bridge tower. Looks slightly outa place.

Regarding your improvement list, I suggest using dark grey round barrels for the bigger thruster ends. I don't think a recess for the twin guns is strictly necessary in this scale, unless you find some really elegant way to suggest it without overcomplicating the structure of the hull plating. Last I would rebuild the end of the tail a bit, I think you can do better than having a plate and a tile on top of the slope brick, which creates some extraneous step over there.

Love to see this, great work!

What do you mean “respectable”? ?...?

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6 hours ago, K_W said:

I stole that from @krisandkris12.

I beg to differ on the wording here! Taking inspiration doesn't equal stealing :D Nor do I own the license on using corner tiles :D

I am glad there is more people doing Venator mocs lately. And if my own rendition can inspire, that's only great!

6 hours ago, K_W said:

Yeah, I'm gonna ditch that yellow 1x1 round tile. It's just so small and it looks weird. If I want the logo, I'll just have to get the sticker. 

sticker sheet 75038stk01a (or 75038stk01b) gives you sticker I used that fits 2x2 tile perfectly. Alternatively you can use 75135stk01a (or b) which has larger sticker with the same design - originally the sticker fits 3x4 flat part of the 4x4 modified tile with 4 studs, but the OCF graphics has the same size and background than the former one, so you can easily cut it and have essentially the same sticker.

1 minute ago, simplethinker said:

What do you mean “respectable”? ?...?

That I respect them... :D

Mind you, the note on distorted proportions was targeted on brickdoctors version mainly, which is chubby and he knows that, it's the beauty of design liberty :D I don't think I had much complaints about yours, though I would have to check back to know for sure ;)

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19 minutes ago, krisandkris12 said:

I beg to differ on the wording here! Taking inspiration doesn't equal stealing :D Nor do I own the license on using corner tiles :D

I am glad there is more people doing Venator mocs lately. And if my own rendition can inspire, that's only great!

sticker sheet 75038stk01a (or 75038stk01b) gives you sticker I used that fits 2x2 tile perfectly. Alternatively you can use 75135stk01a (or b) which has larger sticker with the same design - originally the sticker fits 3x4 flat part of the 4x4 modified tile with 4 studs, but the OCF graphics has the same size and background than the former one, so you can easily cut it and have essentially the same sticker.

That I respect them... :D

Mind you, the note on distorted proportions was targeted on brickdoctors version mainly, which is chubby and he knows that, it's the beauty of design liberty :D I don't think I had much complaints about yours, though I would have to check back to know for sure ;)

I’m just kidding around.  I respect yours as well so I’ve gotta tease ya little bit.  No worries, this conversation has made me look twice at it too ?.  What I love about recreating things at this scale is the unique problem solving you have to employ.  You have to make trade off decisions about what detail, feature or proportion is most important at the expense of others.  Different people make those decisions differently, which gives us the entertaining variety in models that are still this relative size.

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@simplethinker Right. Just a hint which helps not to clutter threads - unless you really want to quote something, don't quote in response. If you want to target someone, just type @ followed by the name and it will let you tag the person like that :) And if you want to quote something specifically, take time to delete the rest of the long post (if that's the case). Just a courtesy to other readers.

Edited by krisandkris12

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