Protecting MOC instruction designers. Crowdfunding.

[Aleh]

1 hour ago, DoomedACE said:

I am quite sure that some people care, this is a discussion point that sometimes comes up in the knock-off forums. (Yes, I read those too sometimes.)

As I am completely unskilled in technic Mocs - I have no experience in selling instructions, but l would be interested in how the sales are actually developing from the people who are recognized in the community...

Suppose it depend on current MOC: design, functions, presentation.

[Nequmodiva]

16 hours ago, rm8 said:

Is there anyone here, who knows more about Crowdfunding platforms? Which one is better for LEGO Instructions specific? I am going to test it soon. Open for your advices?

Maybe gofundme?

If your project is successful, will the instructions be released for free or will only people who contributed a minimum receive them? If it fails, will instructions still be for sale or will the project be canceled?

 

[KevinMoo]

Being a Chinese myself, this is always the kind of topic that I feel embarrassed and ashamed to talk about. 

 

Why thief like LEPIN can still survive? Simply because there is a market. There are so many people who cannot afford to buy “luxury toys” like LEGO for their kids or for themselves in China. Most of us Chinese just don’t care if a certain product is a knockoff or not, as long as it is functional and cheap, it is going to be popular.

Of course there are many well-educated elites who at least have respects for others hard works and are willing to pay money for it, but to be honest, the majority of the whole population in my country don’t have that kind of awareness. What’s worse is that most of them don’t feel shame at all. What’s even worse, they took it for granted.

On the road to modern civilization, we Chinese have a long way to go.

So from my perspective, there is NOTHING you can do about copycats in China. Forget about watermarks or any kinds of similar methods. That sounds sad, but that’s the fact whether you like it or not. Even if LEPIN falls, many other LEPINs will rise again.

I definitely am not trying to discourage anyone in this community, and I would like to see any kind of actions to be taken to provide a compensation for the creators. I’m not sure if CF is going to work, but it’s worth a try.

 

Every creator will put a lot of work into making instructions if he decide to share it whether for free or not, and he will probably take a risk. I just don’t want to see anyone lose interest in creating because of that risk.

I hope we all can build for fun, and share for fun.

At least that’s what I did.

 

 

[Bublehead]

@KevinMoo, very well said and very insightful. Thank you for sharing your experience in China.

[MangaNOID]

I might be on my own here  (nope, I just read @Pvdbpost) but if I had a MOC that got knocked off by the Lepin or another big knock off company I doubt I would mind much and may even be a little excited that my MOC was  a chosen one! 

Now I say that because I haven’t really made many Mocs and still fresh and have zero desire to try and sell designs for money and happy to share anything I make with anyone who wants, so I’m not in a protective mind set.

I would be upset if a single entity claimed a design of my own for theirs though.

but for me I can afford to buy the real LEGO so I will, but there are poorer people who cannot so what? They have to miss out on some fun? Just let them have Lepin in my opinion. Of course that opens arguments and discussion that’s not really appropriate for this thread I guess.

Edited September 23, 2018 by MangaNOID

[Erik Leppen]

2 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

I can afford to buy the real LEGO so I will, but there are poorer people who cannot so what? They have to miss out on some fun? Just let them have Lepin in my opinion.

The discussion is not "there shouldn't be alternatives to Lego". Sure, if there's a company that can create cheaper bricks and bring that to the masses, sure, go ahead. If they want to use existing designs, then fine, go ahead. But first contact the designer and come to an agreement with them.

The problem is not poor people getting access to "fake" Lego. The more people have access to creative play, the better. The problem is companies using other people's designs without their agreement.

[gate]

I can feel the pain in this topic.

The reason for these discussions to rise (in my opinion) is commerce and the imperfection of the heavily narrow-focused Lego IP registration. I don't think there is one, and highly doubt that in the near future something like that can really come up. Because if you think logically, you can't really tell that the MOC you've made is absolutely yours to claim, especially to a person (or a group of persons) who works on registering all kind of things in the world. AFOLs can sure, because they see lego content everyday and we have great resources such as EB. But to the bureaucrats your MOC instructions would probably just be branded "Some kids toys" and forgotten. The only way I can see it is IP MOC registration by Lego company itself. But that would be such a hard work just from the scratch. Imagine if it is created and all high-class MOCers give their applications for ALL of their mocs. That would take months or years to complete. Not trying to diminish the value of MOCers around the world, just stating how I see the situation.

Think of it - if you are not making money by means of Lego, are you concerned about copycats? May be a little, but as some people wrote here, they are also somewhat honored that their mocs where choosen to reproduce. The lego is mostly fun for 90% of its buyers. Trying to make some money for MOCs is a really hard thing to do, as I see it. Can you really stop thiefs effectively? I didn't find 100% guaranteed answer here, and I guess people just have to let it go.

@rm8 As for platforms, you should just use the most popular ones - kickstarter or indiegogo. The more the audience - easier to explain why they need to pay for instructions.

Edited September 23, 2018 by gate

[MangaNOID]

8 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

The problem is companies using other people's designs without their agreement.

I understand that. I understand their thieves, I understand their making money off others without compensation. 

but like people have said it’s not going to stop. And, the point I was trying to say is No doubt at all that most people that can afford LEGO will buy, and will want, the better product and those that can’t may buy the inferior.

so I don’t see anyone missing out on much monetary wise, when trying to sell building instructions.  Just think of it that one is helping to provide to the less fortunate whilst sitting in our ivory towers studying the masses on how to keep our privileges away from them. 

[rm8]

On 9/23/2018 at 3:37 AM, KevinMoo said:

Being a Chinese myself, this is always the kind of topic that I feel embarrassed and ashamed to talk about. 

 

Why thief like LEPIN can still survive? Simply because there is a market. There are so many people who cannot afford to buy “luxury toys” like LEGO for their kids or for themselves in China. Most of us Chinese just don’t care if a certain product is a knockoff or not, as long as it is functional and cheap, it is going to be popular.

Of course there are many well-educated elites who at least have respects for others hard works and are willing to pay money for it, but to be honest, the majority of the whole population in my country don’t have that kind of awareness. What’s worse is that most of them don’t feel shame at all. What’s even worse, they took it for granted.

On the road to modern civilization, we Chinese have a long way to go.

So from my perspective, there is NOTHING you can do about copycats in China. Forget about watermarks or any kinds of similar methods. That sounds sad, but that’s the fact whether you like it or not. Even if LEPIN falls, many other LEPINs will rise again.

I definitely am not trying to discourage anyone in this community, and I would like to see any kind of actions to be taken to provide a compensation for the creators. I’m not sure if CF is going to work, but it’s worth a try.

 

Every creator will put a lot of work into making instructions if he decide to share it whether for free or not, and he will probably take a risk. I just don’t want to see anyone lose interest in creating because of that risk.

I hope we all can build for fun, and share for fun.

At least that’s what I did.

 

 

No offence to China, I think the problem is somewhere in government structures that protect chinese companies and help to develop economics (and its growth last years is a good result of such politics). But in the other hand is often violation of IP rights. This doesnt mean you don't have innovations: we have a lot of examples of chinese companies-leaders with quality products (DJI, Zhiuyn...right?). I also understand people buying cheap porducts - we also have the same situation in Russia. As LEGO ambassador I should protect our community from supporting copycat stolen products, but by my heart I also understand people and even more kids who have no other choice. As a kid I remeber how expensive LEGO was for my parents, and even small 50-piece LEGO town set made me happy.

Thank you for your oppinion

[maciej]

I have read above discussion and there are two conclusions in my mind (considering I feel myself as a outside observer - haven't done instruction yet)

First one as RM8 said, we are not able to change the world so crowdfunding idea in it's base is very simple and effective.

enough money - instruction is made, not enough - no instruction

after all it can be copied but then who cares.

Second thing, I have been witnessing recently grow of cryptocurrency related with RPG PC game. The society of mentioned game lovers asked producers of the game to create cryptocurrency based on blockchain technology. The reason was related with fact that in this game you could buy or sell items like ax or gold or whatever, and society did not wanted to use fiat money. They wanted to have quick way to exchange things.

So what I think is that for LEGO society there should be created such a cryptocurrency, now why:

Imagine guys that now LEGO bricks are having different value in different places, and also it depends if you buy full set or just one brick. But if you will create independent cryptocurrency based on value of one, the smallest, and the most simple brick, then suddenly briks everywhere will have more or less the same value until different agreement will be done by "business sides". 

This way also briks will become even more like investment compared to now. The value of the "LEGO coin" will jump in time because there is society behind it and this is main factor. Society will buy "LEGO coins" to use it as universal exchange coin connected directly to the only LEGO briks. 

Additionally LEGO could be more separated from producers like this Lepin thing etc. Even for poor people it could be way to locate money and not lose it in the future as it is done when LEGO is just a toy. (Bitcoin started it's live among others because people from poor countries could receive money from family working in rich country without extra bank fee, so loss to make the same operation was and is way way smaller).

And finally, if you guys will sell instructions for (hypothetical) LEGO coins, assuming that LEGO instruction will have in code algorithm preventing this instruction to be sold for different money than LEGO coin, then at least it will work as a digital signature saying thad this instruction belongs to LEGO world not Lepin etc.

To explain it using simple worlds, when you have two paintings of Leonardo da Vinci, one oryginal and one fake, and if you put them on the wall, they look similar. But still oryginal is worth much more - and this is the way to keep this digital creation as valuable things, even to make it more valuable in the future.

You are artists in LEGO world and I think this is approach.