rm8

Protecting MOC instruction designers. Crowdfunding.

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After another stealing :sad: of @brunojj1 McLaren I start thinking "How Instruction designers can protect themselves" from MOC thiefs?

What do you think about instruction crowdfunding? Nothing can save us from chinese copycats and stealed MOCs, but such thing as crowdfunding can guarantee a minimal fixed reward for experienced builder, for example, designer can make quality instruction if at least 50 buyers can vote for it an pay real money at CF platfrom. So getting minimal but sensible reward can save from disappointment, when fakers release a set only 1 month after you release instruction.

More of that, I sell instruction (of course pay to authour) at my site of one technic AFOL (he know that), and I mark every PDF with buyer's email. This can not save from professional thiefs, but at least customer will be more careful with IP.

 

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I think it's a great idea provided the process is simple (I'm not familiar with CF processes). These are unique models that people put enormous amounts of thought and time into creating and documenting. They inspire a worldwide audience, some of whom can afford to build them, some who just appreciate the design and likely many who would be more than happy to give something back to the makers regardless. 

I can't justify the cost of collecting the parts for the P1, but would happily drop $10 on a CF platform to give thanks for bringing it to life.

Edited by Fatteh

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2 hours ago, rm8 said:

I start thinking "How Instruction designers can protect themselves" from MOC thiefs?

There can simply be no such thing. Unless you establish a full ePub system with a "circle of trust", heavy encryption and whatnot you have no control over who views and distributes your content. And even then - who's to say that the biggest criminal isn't one of your most loyal paying customers? I don't see this working particularly well, especially since with a crowdfunding model you have to wait forever until anything gets released. You may think you have the greatest MOC on the planet, but very few people might actually want to buy your instructions and then what? Hold it back from publishing until next Christmas? I could see this working occasionally on some truly high-quality models on a case-by-case basis where people would voluntarily be willing to pay an amount X anyway and wait patiently, but not as a fundamental change in how to distribute MOC instructions or least of all prevent copying/ counterfeiting.

Mylenium

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21 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

 I could see this working occasionally on some truly high-quality models on a case-by-case basis where people would voluntarily be willing to pay an amount X anyway and wait patiently, but not as a fundamental change in how to distribute MOC instructions or least of all prevent copying/ counterfeiting.

Rm8 acknowledged this and instead proposed a way for people to more easily support the creators at a level they're happy with rather than the fixed price option of an instruction set. IMHO of couse.

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I think there are two goals that are being confused.

  • Goal 1 is: make sure the original creator earns fair money for their creative work
  • Goal 2 is: make sure copycats earn as little as possible for their act of stealing

2 has some effect on 1, but I don't think we know how large that effect is.

The OP seems to target goal 1. I think the key to getting people to pay for instructions is to make that process as easy as possible. I'\m afraid a crowdfuding thing makes it harder, not easier, to honestly pay for instructions, because the delay between model release and instruction release is lengthened by the crowdfunding time period. So I'm not so sure the effect is positive at all.

I'm more interested in goal 2. I think the only way to reduce income for stealers is to make their public aware of the fact they are buying from stealers. My first idea would be to add a very clear watermark on instructions in some way that is not editable. Unfortunately, every file is copyable or editable, so any stealer can just remove the watermark and add their own. Wasn't blockchain a technology that tries to prevent this? Maybe, someone more knowledgeable than me on that subject can chime in to tell us more about how feasible that is, and whether it solves anything?

Edited by Erik Leppen

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7 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

 interested in goal 2. I think the only way to reduce income for stealers is to make their public aware of the fact they are buying from stealers. My first idea would be to add a very clear watermark on instructions in some way that is not editable. Unfortunately, every file is copyable or editable, so any stealer can just remove the watermark and add their own. Wasn't blockchain a technology that tries to prevent this? Maybe, someone more knowledgeable than me on that subject can chime in to tell us more about how feasible that is, and whether it solves anything?

I think they make the instruction anew. I can't think of any solution how to prevent this other than offering better value as with any other (digital) content. Take a look at spotify, neflix and other similar services. The piracy of music is MUCH lower than 15 years ago when the only possible legal way was buying CD. So my conclusion is - the key to get rid of lego copycats is to make lego more affordable/available (including old parts/colors), including support for custom sets (so you could buy instruction or instruction+ parts in one shop). Is it ever going to happen? I don't think so.

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I agree with Erik. Wouldn’t it be easier to encourage people to buy the instructions instead of a crowdfunding? Then it is a win-win for both us and Bruno. I’m not sure if watermarking every page works because I am pretty sure they make their own instructions. But it’s worth a try for future MOC’ers :thumbup: 

Wishful thinking here.... I think they wouldn’t be a problem if they were parts only. No instructions, no brand, no box. Just parts. That way the need to give the designer their money on instructions, and the people who buy the parts kit would spend a little less.

By the way, I think this should go in a non-specific theme forum. This affects way more designers than just Technic. 

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2 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

I think there are two goals that are being confused.

  • Goal 1 is: make sure the original creator earns fair money for their creative work
  • Goal 2 is: make sure copycats earn as little as possible for their act of stealing

2 has some effect on 1, but I don't think we know how large that effect is.

From a full product point of view:
Since Lego parts are much more expensive and less easily available (this is a guess only) in the biggest market for the copycats, I don't think that 2 has too much effect on 1. People who buy copycats wouldn't buy instructions ad go through all the hassle (or pay a fortune, like on Mochub) to get the model if it was the only way to get a model (or at least the number of buyers that would is very small). Thins thing is very hard to measure for this reason.

From only instructions point of view:
I think it's not very different. People who don't want a full model and are just curious about instructions but asshats enough to get a pirate versions wouldn't pay for instructions even if pirate versions were not available.

So I may be totally wrong, but in most cases (especially with Technic) we are talking about rather small numbers.

 

In my opinion, the real problem is the ba quality of the copies which ruins the designers reputation.

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26 minutes ago, Lipko said:

..

Exactly my thoughts, the copycats are not bought to save on istructions, they are bought because of price of parts packed in one package, very low postage and somewhere far behind are instructions as "free" bonus.

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I am just about to leave China. I was around Shanghai and area + Hong Kong. As AFOL, I have kept an eye on LEGO and must say, it is not only a premium product, but premium premium here. Actually I saw only at places, where You can buy luxury products only. Surprisingly, I even saw advertisement to encourage not to buy fake products (on TV, and in malls). Does it make a difference? I don't think so, as who can afford to buy, he/she will. Looking at the country size and how much wider the social scissor opens here, there is market for copycats. Also the media is filtered well, people will not get the message about stolen MOCs, even if they would be interested (insert massive skepticism here). Feel the issue size compared to reality from this perspective. Till the local government doesn't decide to do against (and this can happen if TLG makes them interested by market share-tax, etc), we can keep shouting.

My best advice is: keep on MOCing for fun, and sharing for the pleasure. Who appreciates and understands, will even pay (I do).

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5 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

 My first idea would be to add a very clear watermark on instructions in some way that is not editable. Unfortunately, every file is copyable or editable, so any stealer can just remove the watermark and add their own.

You can "watermark" instructions without watermarks, but it's very labor intensive. It's akin to introducing typos in a written page, and everyone gets a different set of typos.  In the case of Technic instructions, you can individualize them by changing the orientation of pin slots by 90 degrees in certain places of the instructions.  The process would require an individual rendering of each instructions sold, as well as a separate database associating the file purchaser with the set of unique identifying rotations.  If the purchaser shares the file it could be tracked to them.

However, this idea is easily circumvented if the thief makes their own copy of the instructions, as mentioned by @LvdH.

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You can't protect IP against theft. Thats it, simple as that. 

If your plan works, let TLG know how (and microsoft, and every musician and every movie producer...). Sony had a good go at it, nailed Napster, but Piratebay is still functioning and many other torrent sites. How many people on here are still running dodgy copies of windows or office? Plenty.

 

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Guys, we can't save builders from thiefs, like we can't save this world from dying and defeat sin. And we also can't help people who buy cheaper toys, that's their choose according to family income.

Question is how to help MOC builders (who provide quality MOCs and instructions that people want to buy) not to loose inspiration keep buildng and sharing. I told about crowfunding as one of the ways. If you have built good moc and people ask you for instruction in the comments (this doesnt mean every of them is real potential builder of this MOC) I see the only way to test demand: get the prepay using CF platform and then start making  building instruction, if campaign will reach needed point of reward, that designer set.

Yes it takes time, but if

  •     your MOC is finished, shared to public
  •     your name means something in LEGO hobby world = you have reputation
  •     you know how to do instruction,

you can do it and get reward, or all money will be returned back to voters

 

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37 minutes ago, rm8 said:

defeat sin

You don't want to do that!! Are you mad?! it would spoil a lot of fun for a lot of people... me included!!! :devil:

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Just now, TeamThrifty said:

You don't want to do that!! Are you mad?! it would spoil a lot of fun for a lot of people... me included!!! :devil:

Don't you wanna come back home, to Edem garden, to build free Lego there?☺️

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Can you copyright instructions? If so, could you sue the people selling them online? I know that it doesn't help with international sellers, but local ones you could get some money out of 

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Since the story around my recent MOC was the trigger for the OP, here my thoughts. I was reading through some very shameless posts around this model at the „alternative“ community website. They were all German guys from my dear country, discussing how cool it is - the P1 being ripped off by the Chinese and how steep my original instructions are, so let´s share it right now all together. I wasn´t surprised by the "sporty" spirit they were sharing, but what a disgusting mentality which seems getting more and more popular. Fighting against this kind of piracy is desperate and can not succeed, if your enemy is a billion head apparatus making gold from s..t, having no God but money and therefore no moral conscience. You can blame both - the Chinese AND the buyers, another billion of people you just can´t control *sarkasm*...

By selling MOC instructions you probably may intend to cover some costs and efforts invested into creating the model - in its diversity to please everybody - and the instructions. Who knows, eventually something extra to invest into your next project. Or make a million bucks, nothing wrong with that in the free world, isn´t it? If it doesn´t work and thieves are profitting (miltiple thousand times more btw.), all the stuff becomes like worthless. I don´t beg for money, rather want to take risk, invest something and see how far it can get. I never wanted to take gifts from anybody and let it all depend on other peoples donations, but simply earn what I deserve and nothing more. Crowdfunding is nothing I would consider for myself, but could work for others. Maybe it´s worth to follow the idea within the community.

I´m using the watermak option at the hosting website. Watermarks are worth the „paper“ they are printed on – nada! 

@rm8 , I admire your good will and positive attitude :classic:, God bless, my friend! I apreciate this kind of comradeship and the support from the community in general – big thanks to all!

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I like the MOCs you guys produce. They raise a bar very high. However I might state not the most common point of view - my concern we might be talking about double standards here. Isn't profiting (selling MOC instructions) based on someone else's popularity (insert any car brand model) considered a theft too? I highly doubt you guys pay royalty to MB, BMW, McLaren, Lamborghini and etc. That's pretty much what Lepin does, but with MOC designers.

Edited by zux

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12 minutes ago, zux said:

I like the MOCs you guys produce. They raise a bar very high. However I might state not the most common point of view - my concern we might be talking about double standards here. Isn't profiting (selling MOC instructions) based on someone else's popularity (insert any car brand model) considered a theft too? I highly doubt you guys pay royalty to MB, BMW, McLaren, Lamborghini and etc. That's pretty much what Lepin does, but with MOC designers.

True. I thought about that, sharing at CF should be without brand marks.

But if we dig deeper: this is not a big loss for car brands, may be even some kind of promo. In other hand, selling instructions is the only compensatition/motivation for LEGO Builders. Closed cirlce. Be or not to be...

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Crowdfunding has a time limit, once your campaign ends then you're done with selling. This means the real fanboys and dedicated people will buy it, but you miss the opportunity to bring it to everyone else who stumbles upon the creation on your webpage/rebrickable/google search/etc. Additionally, after the campaign you give the opportunity to Lepin and other bastards to take over the market completely of your MOC and be the single sellers of it.

Successfully protecting a digital product is a really tough thing. My paid instructions have watermarks (buyer's e-mail address embedded) added automatically via Sellfy, but this does not prevent dedicated thieves. Just found a guy in Singapore who's selling a lot of MOCs (including my RC mods) by reselling the instructions and offering a mixed bag of LEGO and Lepin bricks. I'm considering a test buy to see if he took the time to take screenshots of the pdf or managed to remove the watermark or did not really bother with it at all.

Since we know that LEGO failed so far to fight successfully against Lepin, what could be a good strategy for independent creators? There are markets and cultures where copying and reselling someone else's creation is an everyday habit, I don't think there's a possibility to change that. I think the most important is to be a role model in your own community. Raise your voice against the copycat companies, explain the (potential) buyers why this hurts everyone, also explain to some others why it is a bad thing to team up to buy MOC instructions cheaper (yeah this happens as well). 

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Hey! It's simple - nothing helps.

Watermark - phhhhhh,ok, I will buy one copy, spent a week for my own instruction without any watermarks ang go selling kits.

Croudfounding? You sure none of the members is thief who will do you know what? 

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3 minutes ago, kbalage said:

Crowdfunding has a time limit, once your campaign ends then you're done with selling. This means the real fanboys and dedicated people will buy it, but you miss the opportunity to bring it to everyone else who stumbles upon the creation on your webpage/rebrickable/google search/etc.

 

Why can't he sell his instruction after CF campaign from his site? Or even make it free as youtube photo sequence with monetization:classic:

Hey! It's simple - nothing helps.

Watermark - phhhhhh,ok, I will buy one copy, spent a week for my own instruction without any watermarks ang go selling kits.

Croudfounding? You sure none of the members is thief who will do you know what?

After CF campaign designer is rewarded and satisfied. So copying is still a problem, but disappointment is compensated. You were 1 step before thiefs

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5 hours ago, agrof said:

My best advice is: keep on MOCing for fun, and sharing for the pleasure. Who appreciates and understands, will even pay (I do).

Good way. But as I've heard - doantion level in lego instructions is the lowest, near to zero. 

Just now, rm8 said:

Why can't he sell his instruction after CF campaign from his site? Or even make it free as youtube photo sequence with monetization:classic:

As a customer I want to get my instruction ASAP after paying. In this case you have to found a CF only when you have the BI already done.

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Just now, rm8 said:

True. I thought about that, sharing at CF should be without brand marks.

But if we dig deeper: this is not a big loss for car brands, may be even some kind of promo. In other hand, selling instructions is the only compensatition/motivation for LEGO Builders. Closed cirlce. Be or not to be...

Ha, selling instructions for "non-branded" models that still look the same as some, let's say Lamborghini? That's still a theft. You might remember cars in GTA. Some of them were reminding existing vehicles, but they were severely modified. So you would need to do the same with your MOCs, which will reduce the popularity as cars won't be even close. 

If we dig deeper - theft is a theft, doesn't matter if it is small or big. We can use same logic from Lepin's perspective - this is not a big loss for MOC builders, may be even some kind of promo. I'm sure you won't like how it sounds...

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