[MOC] Star Wars: The X-Wing Story

[wookieejedi]

It's a great version! Really gave me some inspiration to revamp mine, too. 

[bevulf]

It is the 6th day i approach this model. I still have problems with it constantly falling apart. When I work on the nose and cockpit, when attaching to wings, bottom just everything.

I congratulate to those who were able to finish it easily. I really try to avoid gluing anything but I do not know how much patience is left in me :P

Finished model looks stunning and that is what keeps me returning to the build despite all these fails.

 

[Jerac]

2 hours ago, bevulf said:

It is the 6th day i approach this model. I still have problems with it constantly falling apart. When I work on the nose and cockpit, when attaching to wings, bottom just everything.

I congratulate to those who were able to finish it easily. I really try to avoid gluing anything but I do not know how much patience is left in me :P

Finished model looks stunning and that is what keeps me returning to the build despite all these fails.

 

What areas are you having problems with? Maybe I could help?

[sovietxrobot]

3 hours ago, bevulf said:

It is the 6th day i approach this model. I still have problems with it constantly falling apart. When I work on the nose and cockpit, when attaching to wings, bottom just everything.

I congratulate to those who were able to finish it easily. I really try to avoid gluing anything but I do not know how much patience is left in me :P

Finished model looks stunning and that is what keeps me returning to the build despite all these fails.

 

I had the same issue. I caved and wound up using super glue. It made building a lot easier.

[Jerac]

Guys. There is absolutely no need for glue... Granted, this is not a set-level durability, but believe me, I've seen FAR more delicate builds, many of them mine :D

[Kristof]

It seems to me like there will always be someone who grabs glue, no matter what :/ I had few people (>2%) reporting some subassemblies falling apart throughout the build even though I went through these steps dozens of times and deliberately shook the model and tossed it around without anything coming loose. It didn't even seem like these guys were particularly impatient, so I can only guess that despite it being hard to imagine for me, assembling lego is not 100% repeatable in terms of completely disregarding skill and manual dexterity. You know, maybe some way of handling the model during assembly, this subconscious awareness of where you can apply force, where you can grab things and what to be cautious about, these things come naturally to someone (especially the designer who spent good amount of time fiddling with the model) but maybe aren't universally obvious. Also part of the reason I suspect to be the wear on parts that are critical in providing the required clutch and strength. But then again, I have been told that new parts were used so there we go... I try not to be too bothered by that, though it really feels weird when you spend so much effort to deliver certain attribute (sturdy and repeatable construction) and someone seem not to be able to benefit from it.

[bevulf]

4 hours ago, Kristof said:

I had few people (>2%) reporting some subassemblies falling apart throughout the build even though I went through these steps dozens of times and deliberately shook the model and tossed it around without anything coming loose.

Well, I don't think you are being completely honest here :)

Edited March 31, 2019 by bevulf

[Space_jaco]

I do think that using old part can be the main reason of unstable assembly. I have used old ones at some locations and the clutch strength is definitely not enough to hold firmly. But managed to do it eventually... without any glue!

[Jerac]

7 hours ago, Kristof said:

It seems to me like there will always be someone who grabs glue, no matter what :/ I had few people (>2%) reporting some subassemblies falling apart throughout the build even though I went through these steps dozens of times and deliberately shook the model and tossed it around without anything coming loose. It didn't even seem like these guys were particularly impatient, so I can only guess that despite it being hard to imagine for me, assembling lego is not 100% repeatable in terms of completely disregarding skill and manual dexterity. You know, maybe some way of handling the model during assembly, this subconscious awareness of where you can apply force, where you can grab things and what to be cautious about, these things come naturally to someone (especially the designer who spent good amount of time fiddling with the model) but maybe aren't universally obvious. Also part of the reason I suspect to be the wear on parts that are critical in providing the required clutch and strength. But then again, I have been told that new parts were used so there we go... I try not to be too bothered by that, though it really feels weird when you spend so much effort to deliver certain attribute (sturdy and repeatable construction) and someone seem not to be able to benefit from it.

People cannot be criticized for having trouble building a model. Especially a difficult one, and the X-Wing, altough relatively solid for a MOC, completely pales when compared to usual LEGO-set experience.

You are totally right that assembling lego is not 100% repeatable. The instructions are a guide, but the guide is incomplete. It cannot be. It shows you where the next parts are supposed to be, but not where to hold the thing, how to apply force, what are the areas you need to focus on getting angled properly and so on. It might be possible to show all that, but currently the software I use makes that too time consuming to be considered possible. Then there is testing... The LEGO company has plenty of testers and us "indie" developers work in the dark. I'd gladly like to watch someone build any of my models live, just to see what the usual pitfalls are. Brickvault guys help me a lot with testing, but they are, simply, too experienced and also have grown to understand my style. Even they have had issues like subassemblies not aligning right, and if whoever worked in IT development knows that "it works for me" is about the most lame excuse a developer can use. I found and fixed whatever I could, but the bottom area baffles me. I just can't see yet what is causing trouble there. And, I might never be able to, since I was the one who has assembled this area at least hundred of times, which means I could do it blindfolded and handcuffed I guess. 

I am actually considering reaching some non-lego friend for help - with a crate of beer and a bag of x-wing parts.
Maybe us little indie developers could form a shared testing platform for our creations and their instructions...?
 

[Rubblemaker]

14 hours ago, Jerac said:

I am actually considering reaching some non-lego friend for help - with a crate of beer and a bag of x-wing parts.
Maybe us little indie developers could form a shared testing platform for our creations and their instructions...?
 

Hmmm... wonder if I can convince Raskolnikov to do this and send me a bag of 15,000 parts to build the Aggressor...... ;0

[sovietxrobot]

17 hours ago, Jerac said:

People cannot be criticized for having trouble building a model. Especially a difficult one, and the X-Wing, altough relatively solid for a MOC, completely pales when compared to usual LEGO-set experience.

 

The biggest issue I had was on page 8, step 7. Further along in the model, you need to press a bar into these clips, which I found impossible. I couldn't fit my finger in to apply enough pressure to keep the clips on, and reassembling from that point was difficult. I think that was the only part where I felt I HAD to use glue to proceed. 

[Kristof]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:19 PM, bevulf said:

Well, I don't think you are being completely honest here :)

You are right that the choice of words invoke more dramatic action than what it actually, was, I admit that :) 'toss around' should have been more like... put down, pick up, move around. But really I was trying to be reasonably rough to see if there are any issues which aren't immediately obvious.

On 3/31/2019 at 11:51 PM, Jerac said:

People cannot be criticized for having trouble building a model. Especially a difficult one, and the X-Wing, altough relatively solid for a MOC, completely pales when compared to usual LEGO-set experience.

Correct. In fact, model like these are meant to be a challenge, I suppose. I have no problem understanding that it is more of a challenge for someone with possibly less experience and, in a way, that is a nice feedback to get (the build was challenging but in the end, all fits together nice...). I guess it's just the glue that gets me started. You said, there is absolutely no need for glue, and I don't think you'd have made such claims without being confident even when accounting for variable skills. Whenever I read a feedback like 'I had problems connecting this and that, but a few drops of glue helped!', I feel almost insulted. I know, I know it's rarely meant as an insult or bad review of the model - different people have different approach to gluing - but it upsets me nonetheless :D

I am not sure whether a complete stranger to lego would be a good source of useful feedback on this kind of model. But then again, maybe they would have some more general insight and could see issues that we are no longer able to notice.

Having a test bed for models would be great. With your volume of products, it almost seems viable :D 

[bevulf]

I have finally managed to assemble the model. It is stunning. I took some pictures and then tried to move it around.

Effect below (Jakku version :)):

I suppose it may be caused by loose joints. 85% bricks that I used for this build are new. Probably in this particular area joints are not tight enough (used bricks) to hold the structure. And you can also see that whole bottom section fell apart. I haven't used any glue. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by bevulf

[Jerac]

How on earth did you manage to disjoin this hinge? :O


I mean, you can hold the ship by the nose and maybe not flail it like a mace but it nicely handles such treatment. And hinges don't just disjoin. Especially these. You really need A LOT of force to do so.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Jerac

[Brick-Wombat]

@bevulf  by "move around" do you mean throw it against a wall? Unless you sandblast your bricks, they shouldn't be that loose.

Edited April 3, 2019 by K_W

[bevulf]

Maybe i wasnt clear: hinges are tight they arent disjoined in any way (both upper and bottom) but the bottom one from right side fall off very often - it does not stick tight to the upper bricks from this section. You can also see that other bricks in this particular area do not hold together well. 

1 minute ago, K_W said:

@bevulf  by "move around" do you mean throw it against a wall? Unless you sandblast your bricks, they shouldn't be that loose.

Yes, this is exactly what i meant. I always test models by throwing them against the wall and crushing them down under my feet

[Jerac]

 

1 hour ago, bevulf said:

Maybe i wasnt clear: hinges are tight they arent disjoined in any way (both upper and bottom) but the bottom one from right side fall off very often - it does not stick tight to the upper bricks from this section. You can also see that other bricks in this particular area do not hold together well. 

Yes, this is exactly what i meant. I always test models by throwing them against the wall and crushing them down under my feet

Sorry. This picture clearly shows disjoined hinge. It is the crucial structural element of this connection between nose and main fuselage section.

As for throwing against the wall, I am deeply sorry, but the warranty does not cover that, along with asteroid collisions and turbolaser blasts.

 

I treated it pretty roughly as you can see. Multiple elements failed, including most obvious (engines and nose tip). The core did not, though. 
That said - I was able to eventually find breaking point just like you did, and indeed the hinge disjoins. This requires some REALLY rough handling though. 

Please understand that achieving the looks requires sacrifice on structural parts, the more angles you have in little area, the more you need to sacrifice. And the X-Wing has all the angles in the nose forming the sloping hexagon shape... 
Now, if I reinforced that particular area where it broken for you, it would break just in front of the cockpit, this is the next failure point in line (at which point the nose entirely disintegrates). There is not much you can do to have a nice looking AND solid model. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Jerac

[Eichhorn]

Man, that video is hard to watch. :)

 

I recently built a lot of jeracs models and the x-wing is by far the most challenging of the ones i have experience with. But after building and rebuilding it a bunch (did some tinkering with the color scheme), for me the difficulty lies in some areas being hard to reach into and apply the necassary force to assemble things. The wedgeplate sub assembly at the bottom was hard for me too, but nowhere near enough to make me reach for glue.

 

All in all I can only second jeracs position: with a model that packs as much detail into as small a space as this one does, there will be tradeoffs in stability. For me the x-wing is as close to perfectly balanced in that regard as you could reasonably ask.

 

[TemjinStrife]

1 hour ago, Eichhorn said:

the difficulty lies in some areas being hard to reach into and apply the necassary force to assemble things.

This is 100% my experience. Figuring out where and how you can apply pressure, and how much to use (enough to engage clips/connect studs, but not too much to cause something else to fail) is the biggest challenge with the build.

[Kristof]

That video is exactly what I was talking about. This is VERY durable model. I am quite confident by far not everyone who provides instructions for their designs tests the models like this. In fact, it is very common for less accurate custom mocs to be far more fragile.

That being said, I would like to disclaim the possible impression that I (and some others) are sparking some hate against whoever has issues with the build! For me, it is just surprising and confusing (and interesting, otherwise I would not be joining the discussion) how a pretty well documented procedure can offer such dramatically different results.

On 4/3/2019 at 5:00 PM, bevulf said:

Maybe i wasnt clear: hinges are tight they arent disjoined in any way (both upper and bottom) but the bottom one from right side fall off very often - it does not stick tight to the upper bricks from this section. You can also see that other bricks in this particular area do not hold together well. 

On 4/3/2019 at 5:30 PM, Jerac said:

Sorry. This picture clearly shows disjoined hinge. It is the crucial structural element of this connection between nose and main fuselage section.

I was just playing with few of these hinges in hand and some (I suppose used, though I cant really tell) are actually loose enough to get this kind of misalignment (bend, twist) without actually disjoining.

That said, comparing @bevulfs experience with the exhausting destructive test in the video... I feel they are just mutually exclusive :D I can't see how the same model, built correctly, could have such dramatic difference in withstanding stress.

[wookieejedi]

Oof that video test looks like something my cats would do! 

[Schneeds]

On 4/3/2019 at 10:30 AM, Jerac said:

I treated it pretty roughly as you can see. Multiple elements failed, including most obvious (engines and nose tip). The core did not, though. 
That said - I was able to eventually find breaking point just like you did, and indeed the hinge disjoins. This requires some REALLY rough handling though. 

Please understand that achieving the looks requires sacrifice on structural parts, the more angles you have in little area, the more you need to sacrifice. And the X-Wing has all the angles in the nose forming the sloping hexagon shape... 
Now, if I reinforced that particular area where it broken for you, it would break just in front of the cockpit, this is the next failure point in line (at which point the nose entirely disintegrates). There is not much you can do to have a nice looking AND solid model. 

Ok, mad respect for Jerac after that video.

That level of durability for a build that accurate is insane.  

[AfolFree]

I built this at home and then transported it in a plastic bag to my office, just detaching the guns to make sure I didn't bend the hoses : engines fell off, obviously, and one of those very small wedge panels under the cockpit, and... that's it. Very very sturdy model once built. I did the same thing with a few MOCs, and most of  them were shattered by the time I got to my desk.

During the build it is actually quite fragile, but to me that makes it even more interesting.

@Jerac I think the main reason those bottom panels are causing issues to people is because they only snap in correctly if everything before is perfectly oriented (the supporting 32828 most of all), and you can't really anticipate what the correct orientation is. Maybe when the wedge plates have enough clutch power you can press a bit and force the alignment, but in my case I had one wedge plate that just barely held (it's only one stud connection after all) and it required a lot of patience to find the right positioning for everything. I actually think that the right orientation for that 32828 piece is counter-intuitive, which might be why some people have so much issue with it, I do remember finally getting it right almost by accident. You just don't expect how the panel is supposed to be.

[That Orange Thing]

Given the amount of force imparted on it, the x-wing held up really well. I just have to look at my UCS falcon funny and a dozen or so pieces fall off. 

The mad scientist in me would love to see a video of an x-wing sold by Lego man handled in such a way for comparison.

[stleon2]

I joined this forum just to give props to @Jerac on such an amazing build.  I just finished Red 5 with my 7 year old son and we are absolutely blown away by this MOC. This is our 3rd MOC together and the most challenging.  Obviously my kid couldn't do some of the steps, but after 4 evenings with it, he was definitely intrigued by all the interesting connections and techniques.  Well worth the price of the instructions and I only had to fork over $70 to BrickLink since my two boys were gracious enough to donate a large portion of the LBG pieces I needed. I'll have to upload some pics soon.  We came up with a pretty cool front landing gear mod I think you all will like.