AFOL designer program

[anothergol]

Anyone has a clue what it's about?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/community/newsview.page?msgid=1105486

[MAB]

Check back on bricklink in 6 days time.

[anothergol]

Obviously, but most likely someone here around already knows something

[MAB]

With the lack of information given out by bricklink I would imagine the only people that know much are BL staff and presumably they have been told not to say anything - here or there or anywhere. If someone knows about it and is willing to discuss it, wouldn't they have already done it and not waited for the pre-announcement announcement.

[Digger of Bricks]

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

Anyone has a clue what it's about?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/community/newsview.page?msgid=1105486

Unless I'm getting my hopes way too up, I'm personally expecting something akin to LEGO Ideas in a way, as it does sound enigmatically promising... 

Quote

What is the AFOL Designer Program?

 This program celebrates creativity by realizing unique AFOL designs with truly original themes. What better timing than to kick it off in the year of the 60th anniversary of the LEGO brick? For a limited time, BrickLink will be hosting the AFOL Designer Program. We are honored to help highlight your creativity and help make your designs a reality.

 

[Dukeside]

It's interesting to see what will be announced. I've always thought Lego seems a little behind the times. There are a ton of MOC's that are way better than anything Lego has ever created and they have yet to capitalize on it. The Lego Ideas is a joke. If they were smart they would create a way to include AFOL fan designers and their creations and possibly be able to easily purchase bricks to build the sets through Lego. I have a feeling it will be an underwhelming program that will just highlight some nice designs for Lego to publicize and not much more.

[Holodoc]

Today, Bricklink started a teaser page on their website about the soon to be relased AFOL Designer Program.

Mmmmh. Sounds intriguing!  What is that exactly?

One quote from the site:

"What is the AFOL Designer Program?

This program celebrates creativity by realizing unique AFOL designs with truly original themes. What better timing than to kick it off in the year of the 60th anniversary of the LEGO brick? For a limited time, BrickLink will be hosting the AFOL Designer Program. We are honored to help highlight your creativity and help make your designs a reality."

What can we expect? The words above are plain promotional yadayada. What will it be? An upgraded LDD or Stud.io? An alternative Ideas? Or something completely different?
The good: It's in official collaboration with the LEGO group! And it's seems to be dedicated for AFOLs!
We'll find out in 5 days.
EDIT: The same day TLG's website rebrick.com will go offline. Coincidence?

Oh, the suspense!

 

Let us know what you think!

[Johnny1360]

I find that picture to be oddly phallic in nature. 

[DanNeely]

2 hours ago, Dukeside said:

If they were smart they would create a way to include AFOL fan designers and their creations and possibly be able to easily purchase bricks to build the sets through Lego.

 

For most MOCs doing so is a non-starter from a manufacturing/economics perspective.  Injection molded parts are dependent on large production volumes to keep the individual prices down, the fixed setup costs would make any (much lower sales volume) mold/color combinations in MOCs but not current retail models far more expensive per brick than the new parts they currently sell which're either being made in mass quantities for current sets or are leftovers from completed runs they're hoping to unload to fans instead of recycling internally.

 

Unless 3d printed bricks ever get to the point where they're comparable in quality and price to mass produced injection molding being able to order arbitrary bricks from Lego is probably never going to happen.

[anothergol]

I'm thinking of 4 possible things:

1. integration of Bricklink in LDD, to pretty much give us back the "buy your creation" the LDD originally had, but in a way that works. But that'd be strange, since it would be conflicting with Stud.io which now does exactly that.

2. integration of Bricklink in Ideas, to "buy this MOC" straight from the Ideas page. This is the most likely to me.

However these are nice concepts that can't really work, I don't much believe in automated BL orders (which Rebrickable has too) without added ease to reduce costs, like "this part is only a filler, can be any of these", or "this part can be any color", not to end up with 50 different shops for a little MOC.

3. Bricks&Pieces becoming a Bricklink shop. That would be amazing, since let's face it, B&P will never work properly. However that wouldn't fit the name. Well, "designer program" could mean something to help designers design.

4. something I've suggested in the past, and I so HOPE it's this: a way for BL buyers to vote on recolors/new parts, pretty much the Lego Ideas of parts. This wouldn't fit the name either, but everything is there for this to work, as BL already has color wishlists, so Lego can already know the demand.

3 hours ago, DanNeely said:

Unless 3d printed bricks ever get to the point where they're comparable in quality and price to mass produced injection molding being able to order arbitrary bricks from Lego is probably never going to happen.

Oh quality is there (resin printers), even better than Lego since such parts won't have injection marks, & can have shapes that you can't produce using single molds. But price will never compare.

It's amazing how resin printers have reached 500 bucks. The process seems tedious, though. Not as straighforward as with FDM printers.

Edited September 7, 2018 by anothergol

[anothergol]

6 hours ago, Dukeside said:

There are a ton of MOC's that are way better than anything Lego has ever created and they have yet to capitalize on it.

True, & the best "LEGO set" I ever bought.. was by Xingbao.

I believe it will eventually happen that you'll be able to easily buy MOCs as sets. But I don't much believe it will ever have any link with LEGO, neither as "publisher" because the best MOCs can't follow LEGO's too strict guidelines, especially for sturdiness, nor as "parts provider" because gathering parts for a MOC costs way too much for the casual builder. Not even counting that LEGO wouldn't associate with anything not kid-friendly.

I believe it will eventually happen, but through Chinese manufacturers. Well it has already happened for a few MOCs, I'm pretty sure there will be companies streamlining the process in the future.
Let's take the example of Powerpig's MOCs (https://www.ecwid.com/store/powerpig/#!/My-First-Console-Sprite-Edition-2-0/p/56661923/category=15326690). Who wouldn't want a mini NES MOC? As a 5 bucks polybag, it'd sell like crazy. But as a $50 kit? Of course he has to manually do everything, but I'm pretty sure that the price of the genuine parts he has to collect, is a too big part of the price of the set. There is just no way this kind of shop could become mainstream without a chinese manufacturer involved IMHO.

Edited September 7, 2018 by anothergol

[deraven]

10 hours ago, Dukeside said:

If they were smart they would create a way to include AFOL fan designers and their creations and possibly be able to easily purchase bricks to build the sets through Lego.

You know, they did do just that, and it was a failure:  https://www.lego.com/en-us/ldd/designbyme

I mean, it was cool, but commercially it was a bust.  I think this program by Bricklink will be similar (but I assume without printed boxes and instructions, etc.), but rather than being limited to currently produced bricks it'll take advantage of the whole secondary market.  Hopefully they do some wise selection as to what "sets" are made available that way - thinking about availability of parts in general, quality of design, maybe something internal system to ensure parts for a given design are available from individual sellers or somehow leverage their system to streamline the process if parts must be purchased across a variety of stores, etc..

I absolutely agree that there are some MOCs and even whole AFOL-imagined themes that I'd buy in a heartbeat, so I'm looking forward to seeing what this is really about.  Should be interesting!  

[MAB]

5 hours ago, anothergol said:

2. integration of Bricklink in Ideas, to "buy this MOC" straight from the Ideas page. This is the most likely to me.

 

This would need a very significant change in Ideas, in that the designers would have to upload their instructions and parts lists, or these would need to be generated by LEGO for every model. And they would have to give the rights away for others to build. This would essentially be bricklink's (failed) MOC shop.

 

The other thing, if you read what they have announced carefully, is this statement: "For a limited time". Why go to those substantial changes in Ideas (when designs can hang around in Ideas for a couple of years) for a limited time.

 

[Mylenium]

5 hours ago, anothergol said:

because the best MOCs can't follow LEGO's too strict guidelines, especially for sturdiness,

...which is funny, considering how lately LEGO disobey their own rules more and more. Not just actual "illegal" building techniques but also simple things like having hollows under loosely fixed bricks.

5 hours ago, anothergol said:

I believe it will eventually happen, but through Chinese manufacturers. Well it has already happened for a few MOCs, I'm pretty sure there will be companies streamlining the process in the future.

That still doesn't answer the question of commercial viability, which ultimately is the point it revolves mostly around. Even a Chinese knock-off manufacturer is unlikely to ever produce a 10000 pieces Star Wars MOC. For me it's also too hit & miss in terms of the quality of some MOCs. It seems that for every really good one there's twenty or thirty half-baked or really bad ones where people just try to cash in. Point in case: Not every MOC may be worth producing and a commercial manufacturer still has to deal with making these decisions even in a less rigid environment than LEGO's self-imposed strict rules.

In any case, here are some random thoughts on the matter on my blog, in case anyone cares: https://myleniumsbrickcorner.wordpress.com/2018/09/07/the-missing-brick-link/

Mylenium

[anothergol]

2 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Even a Chinese knock-off manufacturer is unlikely to ever produce a 10000 pieces Star Wars MOC.

Why? It'd end up as 200 bucks, it's doable. Keep in mind that while LEGO had troubles keeping up with the demand for the MF, its ripoff was easily available.

& yes of course it can't apply to ALL MOCs, a choice has to be made. Judging by the quality on Ideas, I would even reject 95% of the projects, before even considering guidelines & possible demand. But between the rare Ideas projects (which are also different beasts, as LEGO considers them as just ideas & won't mind redesigning them) being produced & the big lot of good MOCs out there, there's still a big gap.
If I take a look at LEGO's Flickr, there are a couple of good MOCs per day. Remove those who aren't interested in sharing, that's a couple per week.
I believe the market is there, it's not big but big enough, & it's not a market LEGO itself could touch, or would even be interested in. And let's face it, those Lepin clones won't stay there forever, MOCs will replace them and it has already started.

2 hours ago, Mylenium said:

It seems that for every really good one there's twenty or thirty half-baked or really bad ones where people just try to cash in.

To cash in what btw? There is no market for instructions. I can't imagine a MOC being made for money. Of course that also means that a MOC only has to hold "for the camera", which is another problem (but it didn't prevent Xinbao from producing Kaneda's bike which requires glue). Unless you're talking about Ideas project, there yes many are just adding crap projects around licenses they know people will vote for. But MOCing in general is a hobby that can only cost money.

 

Still, I hope I'm wrong and that collaboration is about doing stuff *for* MOCers, like producing parts in requested colors, them being distributed through Bricklink. I'm fed up with Bricks&Pieces making things much harder than they should be, with stuff being there that no one is allowed to buy.

Edited September 7, 2018 by anothergol

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, deraven said:

I absolutely agree that there are some MOCs and even whole AFOL-imagined themes that I'd buy in a heartbeat, so I'm looking forward to seeing what this is really about.

...like my personal favorites, the work of Vincent Gashod and the Sky-Fi fan theme! 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Digger of Bricks

[Chiaroscuro]

The scope of this will be determinated by what “for a limited time” means. Is the program hosted by Bricklink for a limited time because Lego itself will hold it later or because it is a short life program?

 

Plus we may overthinking it by saying it is related to MOCs. It may be just a special program to get or request parts (even some that does not exist now). 

[Shroud]

Would be amazing if it was a way ppl could buy your instructions and the bricks to go with it in one click. Kind of like the LEGO store available only online. A shared design by me type of idea.  Maybe an option to choose pick a bricks along side Bricklink stores

[Mylenium]

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

To cash in what btw? There is no market for instructions.

Apparently there is. At least Facebook keeps suggesting me such stuff. Whether or not it is profitable in any way I can't tell, but at least to me 90% of that stuff looks unattractive hence my impression of quick cash grabs.

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

It'd end up as 200 bucks, it's doable. Keep in mind that while LEGO had troubles keeping up with the demand for the MF, its ripoff was easily available.

But does it actually make sense? I mean doing a complex MOC as an AFOL is a different thing than selling it to a mass audience. And as much as e.g. some massive Star Wars MOCs impress me, I just as well think that a lot of this stuff is utterly bonkers. I have a pretty clear image in my head what I think LEGO can do technically and how complex a set can be before it turns from being fun into a chore, so I don't think this is a viable course of action, even if the mere manufacturing of course wouldn't be an issue at all. Commercial sets have to figure in other factors. I also think you'd then have to further differentiate between fan-driven licensed stuff and normal sets and it begins to make even less sense to dream of such big sets without the backing of an existing marketing foundation.

Mylenium

[anothergol]

17 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

But does it actually make sense? I mean doing a complex MOC as an AFOL is a different thing than selling it to a mass audience. And as much as e.g. some massive Star Wars MOCs impress me, I just as well think that a lot of this stuff is utterly bonkers. I have a pretty clear image in my head what I think LEGO can do technically and how complex a set can be before it turns from being fun into a chore, so I don't think this is a viable course of action, even if the mere manufacturing of course wouldn't be an issue at all. Commercial sets have to figure in other factors. I also think you'd then have to further differentiate between fan-driven licensed stuff and normal sets and it begins to make even less sense to dream of such big sets without the backing of an existing marketing foundation.

I don't know, all I know is that I'd most likely buy a minifig-scaled AT-AT. I wouldn't hunt for 10k parts to build one, but I'd certainly buy one, especially for 200 bucks. It's no different than the latest MF, IMHO (& I'd have preffered to get Marshal Banana's one, btw). It's a chore to build, but it's even worse with Technic sets. The latest MF may have a sturdy structure btw, most of its decoration is rather fragile & it's more or less a MOC in that regard.

17 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

Apparently there is. At least Facebook keeps suggesting me such stuff. Whether or not it is profitable in any way I can't tell, but at least to me 90% of that stuff looks unattractive hence my impression of quick cash grabs.

I can only speak from my little experience at Rebrickable, with 2 MOCs being near the top for some time. It's pocket money, let's say it pays for parts, it's nice to have, but I really can't imagine anyone making a profit from instructions (unless you really undervalue your time). Or maybe with modulars, I don't know, since most of the stuff at the top are modulars. But interestingly, quite some of the top MOCs there are alternate builds for existing sets, which confirms that people are ready to buy new models, but much less to bother gathering parts from a ton of different shops, for too much money. But even if there are MOCs that have sold 10x or even 100x better than my top ones, it's still not in the realm of profitable (are there really paid Facebook ads for LEGO instructions?).

3 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

...like my personal favorites, the work of Vincent Gashod and the Sky-Fi fan theme! 

I'd definitely buy a couple of those planes. Plus they do look like what the chinese would market. It'd look odd as LEGO sets, plus they'd probably see them as war-related anyway.

Edited September 7, 2018 by anothergol

[deraven]

3 hours ago, Chiaroscuro said:

Plus we may overthinking it by saying it is related to MOCs. It may be just a special program to get or request parts (even some that does not exist now). 

Yes, good point.  It could be a program for AFOL Designers, not in collaboration with them.  That seems more in keeping with Bricklink's mission, and would be far easier to accomplish than most of the other ideas (from a licensing, branding, and logistics standpoint).

BUT... back to the more fanciful ideas on this, it would be interesting if they did something like turning select Ideas projects that get 5000+ votes, or maybe even ones that got 10K votes but weren't approved, into semi-official sets.  I think this is unlikely because Lego wouldn't risk their brand by releasing things they think are sub-par as far as build experience and stability and whatnot, but it would be cool.  Of course, the need to secure licensing for many of the projects would eliminate them from the start, so I do fall back to thinking it's either basically and enhancement for Bricks & Pieces or a limited run of AFOL MOC sets that perhaps Lego is helping with packaging and part availability for while keeping it very much branded as a Bricklink/AFOL product.

I am getting more and more curious to see what happens on the 12th... 

[danth]

7 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

WHOA, those are awesome, especially the "super deformed" planes on the right. 

[Digger of Bricks]

22 hours ago, anothergol said:

I'd definitely buy a couple of those planes. Plus they do look like what the chinese would market. It'd look odd as LEGO sets, plus they'd probably see them as war-related anyway.

Jon Hall (the creator of those builds) did submit one of his more popular fighter creations as a project over on LEGO Ideas years ago back when it was still CUUSOO, and it did gain a bit of headway before expiring:

LEGO Ideas - The Spirit of Freedom 

But yeah, they're warplanes, whether they'd be fantastical or not; but I'd still love to see the Sky-Fi genre officially represented somehow in the near future.

18 hours ago, danth said:

WHOA, those are awesome, especially the "super deformed" planes on the right. 

The microscale Sky-Fi warplanes of Fredoichi aren't that bad either:

[zux]

While this option sounds great I doubt it is going to have a great success. TLG had such service years ago and it was expensive. It won't be much cheaper with Bricklink either.

[Holodoc]

On 9/7/2018 at 2:42 PM, Shroud said:

Would be amazing if it was a way ppl could buy your instructions and the bricks to go with it in one click. Kind of like the LEGO store available only online. A shared design by me type of idea.  Maybe an option to choose pick a bricks along side Bricklink stores

That would make sense! It has got to be something that explains the co-work of TLC and Bricklink. And I appreciate the idea!
@zux it doesn't have to be successful if it's done by BL. It's just another on-top idea, another feature. Failing wouldn't cost BL much.