Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[llap]

one good thing of bringing back LOTR-LEGO-sets would be the falling prices :-) ... the costs of the old sets and minifigures are insane :-(

llap Olli

[Frike]

I was in a semi-Dark Age when the Hobbit and LotR sets were on shelves (almost a decade ago!). I would love a second chance to pick up some of the iconic characters and some cool builds!

Not to mention that the old figures still hold up really well but are incredibly expensive on the second hand market. :c

[MAB]

On 11/3/2021 at 8:52 PM, llap said:

one good thing of bringing back LOTR-LEGO-sets would be the falling prices :-) ... the costs of the old sets and minifigures are insane :-(

llap Olli

I doubt prices for existing sets and minifigs would fall much. Chances are any new figures would be new designs and older ones would hold value, although you would be able to buy the newer versions at lower prices. 

[Darkslayer]

I think with Amazon making their show there is at least the chance of getting a giant Minas Tirith like Lego did with Pirates of the Caribbean 5.

[llap]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:41 AM, MAB said:

I doubt prices for existing sets and minifigs would fall much. Chances are any new figures would be new designs and older ones would hold value, although you would be able to buy the newer versions at lower prices. 

Yes, but LEGO did the same with the STAR WARS figures. ... we will see.

[MAB]

16 hours ago, llap said:

Yes, but LEGO did the same with the STAR WARS figures. ... we will see.

LEGO Star Wars has never really gone away like LOTR has. Harry Potter is more similar to LOTR but of course much more popular than LOTR with kids. Maybe now LEGO actively promotes sets to adults they could do Middle Earth again through 18+ sets, but I'd hope they would change the designs of minifigs, as printing and head/hairpieces have improved a lot since the originals were done.

[llap]

I hope that there will be NO 18+ LOTR set .. I don´t want to pay 800€ for ONE set! .... grrrr ...

[MAB]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:46 AM, llap said:

I hope that there will be NO 18+ LOTR set .. I don´t want to pay 800€ for ONE set! .... grrrr ...

Even if they did a one off 18+ LOTR set, it is unlikely to be a 800 Euro set. LOTR is not SW.200-250 Eur, maybe. But I cannot see them jumping to 800 Euro.

[HarryPotter27]

Do you think that the new LOTR Amazon show in 2022 can lead to the return of the series? Maybe as it happened with the Harry Potter series when the second Fantastic Beasts movie was released - mostly sets from the HP movies and a few sets from FB. I think that LOTR theme can be almost as successful as the Harry Potter line with a CMF series and some UCS sets like Helm's deep for around 350-400$. We can see from the current prices on the second hand market that the demand for such sets is really high. 

[Gorilla94]

Too late for anything with army building. Koruit and Xinh saw the demand Lego ignored for years and simply fullfilled it for little money. The joints are not the best, but still by far better than the worst original Lego cmfs I got (like a Lobster loving Batman unable to stand upright) and the faces are disgusting (paler flesh colour than lego, creepy designs and completely unfitting colours for example really dark orange wrinkles), which can be easily solved by switching them against original Lego ones. The rest is pretty much perfection with an insane amounts of gorgeous specialised moulds, arm printing etc. There is no doubt Lego's Iron hill dwarfs would look like the cheap "fake" minifigures in comparison.

The only thing successfull now would be a cmf focussing completely on unique characters... and even that would be a challenge with for example Gandalf's and Aragorn's swords made by brick forge years ago. But well... Printed arms would drastically improve Boromir and Aragorn. The Hobbits need Dual moulded legs like Dobby had. 9 Members of the fellowship, Faramir, Eowyn and Witchking. That would still sell towards old collectors, new collectors, kids and Castle fans just using the pieces.

[MAB]

21 hours ago, HarryPotter27 said:

Do you think that the new LOTR Amazon show in 2022 can lead to the return of the series? Maybe as it happened with the Harry Potter series when the second Fantastic Beasts movie was released - mostly sets from the HP movies and a few sets from FB. I think that LOTR theme can be almost as successful as the Harry Potter line with a CMF series and some UCS sets like Helm's deep for around 350-400$. We can see from the current prices on the second hand market that the demand for such sets is really high. 

How do you tell the demand is really high? I think the opposite is true, the demand is actually quite low now, mainly because prices have rocketed. Some people are willing to pay high prices for retired sets, but that doesn't mean the demand is high. Just that the pockets of the people that are buying it are deep.

LOTR also suffers from being aimed at higher ages than HP and LEGO knows this from first time around. Kids and adults can enjoy HP, whereas LOTR is mainly aimed at older kids and adults, missing out the younger age bracket. Sure they could do a large Helm's Deep set aimed at adults, but would it sell that well given they already did Helm's Deep and without backing it up with other characters from the stories, people might be less interested in stand alone large sets. If they do sets based on the movies again, I would prefer they did a range of smaller sets rather than just one or two large ones (hence missing lots out again) but that is not how their marketing to adults seems to work.

If LEGO do sets based on the new Amazon series, I hope they concentrate mainly on that. Of course, nothing stops them from also bringing back the old LOTR theme based on the different era covered in the movies if sales based on the series are successful.

11 hours ago, Gorilla94 said:

Too late for anything with army building. Koruit and Xinh saw the demand Lego ignored for years and simply fullfilled it for little money. The joints are not the best, but still by far better than the worst original Lego cmfs I got (like a Lobster loving Batman unable to stand upright) and the faces are disgusting (paler flesh colour than lego, creepy designs and completely unfitting colours for example really dark orange wrinkles), which can be easily solved by switching them against original Lego ones. The rest is pretty much perfection with an insane amounts of gorgeous specialised moulds, arm printing etc. There is no doubt Lego's Iron hill dwarfs would look like the cheap "fake" minifigures in comparison.

 

Yeah, as LEGO didn't do a dwarf army or a Gondor army, I went for the Koruit ones. I replaced the figures with LEGO, but kept the detailed armour from Koruit. It gives the best of both worlds.

[Kim-Kwang-Seok]

still, I think especially some adult sets could tap into the "adult" market. They could do them based on past movies with the comming hype of whatever new media there will be.

...but yeah who knows if it's worth it for Lego; I guess they'll know  why to do or not do it.

[HarryPotter27]

It is simple Microeconomics that high demand and low supply push the prices up since we have a free market with many small individual sellers. This is the reason why prices have gone up three or four times for most of the sets and some of the minifigures cost more than 60 euros. There was a similar situation with the Harry Potter theme before 2018. Right now Lego has so many shitty and pointless themes like Super Mario and Vidiyo which are not selling particularly well. I remember that the medieval blacksmith is one of the best selling sets for this year and there is a rapid increase in the number of sets for the adult market. Not to mention that they are currently selling 3 Star Wars sets which are over 700$. Lego is now more and more oriented towards people with deeper pockets - adults. I think that LOTR is almost as popular as Harry Potter and Star Wars but the main difference is that new Fantastic Beasts movies are being made and there is new Star Wars content every year. I think that if the new show proves successful there is an extremely high chance that they are going to revive the theme for at least one new wave. I guess they will do something similar in number and size to the first wave of Harry Potter sets in 2018 and adjust it afterwards depending on sales. Another theme is Jurassic World which is a bit less popular than LOTR but they still made multiple waves and it is still ongoing.

[TeriXeri]

I'd prefer a wave of actual smaller sets over 1 big big big LOTR set, just some things you can't do with just 1 set, especially if it's going to be focused on the show, which might have 5 seasons.

They can of course do a big set of the original movies to the side at some point (sets like Daily Bugle and Ninjago Gardens had ~20 figs), maybe inbetween seasons or if the show ends up very popular, a big set that has good figs+display value could still be the way to get adult fans of LOTR or just the movies into LEGO.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by TeriXeri

[Lion King]

Are we expecting LOTR’s return next year or….?

[The Brick Boss]

Well.....You guys wanted medieval castle related sets. Will this suffice? 

[MAB]

On 11/26/2021 at 8:57 PM, HarryPotter27 said:

Right now Lego has so many shitty and pointless themes like Super Mario and Vidiyo which are not selling particularly well. 

From what I have heard Super Mario is selling well, both the nostalgic adult aimed sets and the interactive more playful kid aimed sets. Vidiyo also sold quite well once reduced to a more realistic price (reduced to similar price per part values as other regular sets). 

On 11/26/2021 at 8:57 PM, HarryPotter27 said:

Another theme is Jurassic World which is a bit less popular than LOTR but they still made multiple waves and it is still ongoing.

They are mainly kid focussed sets, and JW is probably more popular with kids than LOTR. 

On 11/26/2021 at 8:57 PM, HarryPotter27 said:

It is simple Microeconomics that high demand and low supply push the prices up since we have a free market with many small individual sellers. This is the reason why prices have gone up three or four times for most of the sets and some of the minifigures cost more than 60 euros. 

To push prices up, you only need high enough demand from people that are wiling to spend that much, not high demand. Look at the number of people willing to pay 60 euros for a figure. It is actually quite low. That they occasionally sell at that price is not an indicator of high demand, just high enough demand for the very low supply that still remains. There could be millions of people wanting to buy at a much lower price or there might be very few. The high price doesn't tell you much about the number of people that would buy at a lower price.

 

[cosmic]

On 11/28/2021 at 2:04 PM, Poodabricks said:

Well.....You guys wanted medieval castle related sets. Will this suffice? 

It’s a Licensed theme and this is all speculation so there’s no guarantee it will come back. I personally think this would be a great temporary bandage as was the release of the 3 in 1 Creator Castle, Ideas Blacksmith Shop, and several CMF figures of late (Series 22 Bard, Series 21 Centaur, Series 19 Viking, Series 18 Ghost Knight etc). I do think I would love for LoTr To come back but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy the reprise of Fantasy castle with Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Centaurs, Forestmen, Elves, Wizards, Goblins, Ogre’s etc in unlicensed variants.
 

I think Lego’s unlicensed Fantasy Castle theme with the building style of modern creator/monkey kids/Ninjago sets with fairies, ogres, elves, and orcs etc printed at the quality of Vidiyo and CMF figures would sell very well and would be an incredible delight to collect.

 

On 11/6/2021 at 7:41 PM, MAB said:

I doubt prices for existing sets and minifigs would fall much. Chances are any new figures would be new designs and older ones would hold value, although you would be able to buy the newer versions at lower prices. 

Completely agree. Older designs will forever be exclusive and there’s a high likelihood that not all figures released the first run around will be included in the remake. Which is still hypothetical and uncertain how long it would last if it did come back, as it could be argued the original theme did not have a very long run all things considered (2014-2017 correct?). Also if Harry Potter is anything to go by some of the newer designs will be updates while others will actually be steps down in terms of attention to detail and accuracy. 
 

Either way this original release was amazing for me and I’d welcome a remake with open arms. I regret not buying the Witch King battle when I had the chance. It was so affordable upon release lol. Also hope Eowyn gets made in a remake as I love the “I am no man” scene and would love to recreate it.

Edited November 30, 2021 by cosmic

[Lion King]

On 11/28/2021 at 12:51 PM, DBlegonerd7 said:

Are we expecting LOTR’s return next year or….?

I guess i take it as a no?

[Lego David]

6 hours ago, cosmic said:

as it could be argued the original theme did not have a very long run all things considered (2014-2017 correct?).

Lord of the Rings had a very short run from 2012 to 2013 to tie in with the Hobbit movies that were coming out at the time. We also got one final Hobbit wave in 2014, but that was pretty much it. 

6 hours ago, cosmic said:

Either way this original release was amazing for me and I’d welcome a remake with open arms.

I think the original release wasn't even that great to be honest. The sets suffered heavily from not really knowing who they were aimed at, with play-oriented designs that were supposed to appeal to kids, yet it was mostly the adults who bought those sets. Just look again at some of those sets, and you can clearly tell how badly they have aged... Most of those sets consisted of a bunch of walls thrown together into a shape that loosely resembled the source material (just look at the Mines of Moria set, for instance). I'd argue the only legitimately great set was the Tower of Orthanc, the rest were probably bought by AFOLs just for the figures. 

[Trunkbass]

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

I'd argue the only legitimately great set was the Tower of Orthanc, the rest were probably bought by AFOLs just for the figures. 

I was really fond of Bag End as well, but disappointed by the Council of Elrond and the fact that we got a pirate ship instead of Minas Tirith.

I do hope they manage to release new sets together with the Amazon series. I think overall the 2012-2014 LOTR minifigures were of very high quality at the time.

[Lego David]

11 minutes ago, Trunkbass said:

and the fact that we got a pirate ship instead of Minas Tirith

I actually recall from a designer video at the time that the reason they chose to make a Pirate ship instead of Minas Tirith was because "We know kids love Pirate Ships and they've always been popular". 

That quote pretty much says it all. The designers clearly had no idea what their target demographic actually wanted... 

[Lyichir]

56 minutes ago, Lego David said:

I actually recall from a designer video at the time that the reason they chose to make a Pirate ship instead of Minas Tirith was because "We know kids love Pirate Ships and they've always been popular". 

That quote pretty much says it all. The designers clearly had no idea what their target demographic actually wanted... 

Or maybe the adults who wanted Minas Tirith were never the target demographic. At the very least, sales of sets such as Helm's Deep and Orthanc must not have been substantial enough to guide the theme further in that direction instead.

The easiest explanation for why the Lord of the Rings theme ended isn't designer incompetence or willful sabotage but simply that the theme was not as popular as Lego hoped. The Hobbit movies weren't as popular as anticipated and didn't end up moving merchandise or reigniting interest in the earlier movies the way Star Wars, Super Heroes, and Harry Potter did.

There might be some hope that a Lord of the Rings theme or set could be more successful now that Lego is capitalizing more on adult customers. But then again I think pinning those hopes on an Amazon streaming series that we haven't seen and may or may not be successful either with mass audiences or hardcore fans of the series might be a dubious prospect.

[TheLegoDr]

It was unfortunate that Hobbit movies weren't popular. They were obviously geared at kids with the comedic bits of the Dwarves, but I don't think that translated well to official sets. I didn't like the movies (I didn't really care for the book either), but I wasn't the target audience. LOTR sets were well enough, but I definitely only cared about the figures and army building Uruks or Rohirrim.

But I guess it is time to just accept that chapter is behind us and move forward to whatever LEGO decides to give us.

[Gorilla94]

Well... sets like 30-35€ for "Balrog vs. Gandalf" (including Gandalf and a brickbuild Balrog maybe with a special piece for the face and nothing else) and 50€ for "Witchking and Fellbeast vs. Eowyn" (including the Witchking with his mount and Eowyn Eowyn maybe a horse, too, because they appeal to children very much) would sell great. These would be beautifull display pieces for fans of the licence and still awesome "generic" monsters and characters for kids, who never watched the movies... Sets like the Uruk Hai forge for 50€ of course didn't sell that great... same for the terrible Dol Guldur Ambush with Beorn...

I think combining lotr and Lego is a challenging task. The characters work great as minifigs, if done with the required special moulds, but the locations are mostly very difficult. Most are huge in comparison to the characters, often plain and really need the lighting effects. The best location for a set is Bag end. It is quite small in size, colourfull with bright light and a joyfull scenery that fits Lego perfectly. Pretty much the worst is the Uruk hai forge. It is a boring pile of wooden planks in the movie and the scene gets the emotion from flames glowing in the darkness and music. Selling or better trying to sell children an overpriced model of a boring pile of wood sounds like a "great" idea.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Gorilla94