Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[Captain Pirate Man]

8 hours ago, Altair1 said:

Looks nice but I don't think it makes sense to put Orthanc so close to Barad-Dur

I'm just working with the given space that I have. Orthanc has a relatively small foot print, so I had to work it in where it can fit. I also have the shire and Rivendell next to each other, as well as Helms Deep and Erebor. So having things in there proper place (canonically), went out the window a while ago, lol. I just liked the idea of the Two Towers next to each other. 

We have a rather large Lego room and display tables, and tbh if I got rid of our City, we could do things more accurately. But I enjoy having a city and trains as well as LOTR, Castle, Pirates, Harry Potter, Jurassic Park and more. Lego makes so many fun themes, it's fun to do more than one display. So you have to sacrifice space and "accuracy" for having multiple themes. 

[TheDoctor]

Still struggling to believe it's 500 pieces less than Rivendell given how huge and imposing it is (then I remembered the roof tiles!)

I've modded those awful orange buttresses, I think they were so jarring because there was no indication of where that light was coming from unlike the eye and the lava.

Also attached the Fell Beast to the side too and put the widened Black Gate in-front of the model.

A very impressive build!

[Kraby]

Has anyone replaced the black candle pieces (37762) that hold the eye? I've been contemplating replacing them by another color, maybe Dark Tan or even Coral.

[TheDoctor]

I went for some Pear Gold 6L bars instead, mush less noticeable...




Also quite a bright window behind the model in this picture, looks better when it's not as sunny outside!

[legoturtle]

These guys know almost everything about LEGO themes. Past and present.

[CloneCommando99]

8 minutes ago, legoturtle said:

These guys know almost everything about LEGO themes. Past and present.

I didn’t know you were a Lord of the Rings fan Turtle. Good for you. What’s your favourite book/ film in the trilogy?

[mirkwoodspiders]

20 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

To play devil's Sauron's advocate, they don't need to find products that will sell, they need to maximize their profit overall. A single, large set being popular is great, but when you consider licensing, design, logistics, tooling, and opportunity cost, they might decide that it's better to do something else. I really hope they don't, but they might.

"Sauron's advocate" - 

I think the only concerning thing might be licensing for the new shows and movies that are coming out if they wanted to do sets for those, but they'd already have licensing issues worked out for the main LOTR movies, right? And I'd imagine all of the other potential concerns would apply to a large extent to any other theme they decide to roll out in the future.

I'd have to think they'd be willing to test the waters with a small, initial wave of playsets, a la Indiana Jones last summer, and see how it does. Hopefully, unlike Indiana Jones, it'd continue past that, unless the sales were poor and the cost/benefit analysis didn't pan out in their favor.

[Meaf]

Finished building Barad-dûr today, wow this thing is incredible. I had seen it in a Lego store before building it but I was still kind of shocked when I attached the last section to the rest and saw how big it was. The building experience was honestly really good considering how big it is though, I spread it out over a few days but it never felt too repetitive despite how dark the set is. Overall great set, maybe the best I own honestly!

[mirkwoodspiders]

2 hours ago, Meaf said:

Finished building Barad-dûr today, wow this thing is incredible. I had seen it in a Lego store before building it but I was still kind of shocked when I attached the last section to the rest and saw how big it was. The building experience was honestly really good considering how big it is though, I spread it out over a few days but it never felt too repetitive despite how dark the set is. Overall great set, maybe the best I own honestly!

Nice! This is honestly what I've been seeing with a lot of people - actually building the thing and seeing it in person and being wowed by it in a way you can't be if you've only seen it in photos.

[Lordhelmet]

1 hour ago, mirkwoodspiders said:

Nice! This is honestly what I've been seeing with a lot of people - actually building the thing and seeing it in person and being wowed by it in a way you can't be if you've only seen it in photos.

I’ve seen it a lot too.  It also is imposing next to Rivendell (feels much bigger) which gives it even more of that wow moment in person.

Really hoping for a small LOtR wave to get leaked soon for early to mid next year. 

[mirkwoodspiders]

1 hour ago, Lordhelmet said:

Really hoping for a small LOtR wave to get leaked soon for early to mid next year. 

Me too. As great as Rivendell and Barad-Dur are, I'd be supremely disappointed if they were the only two builds (Brickheadz aside) we end up getting. I don't think they're done, at least with large builds, but at this point it's anyone's guess if small models are on the way.

[zoth33]

29 minutes ago, mirkwoodspiders said:

Me too. As great as Rivendell and Barad-Dur are, I'd be supremely disappointed if they were the only two builds (Brickheadz aside) we end up getting. I don't think they're done, at least with large builds, but at this point it's anyone's guess if small models are on the way.

 

1 hour ago, Lordhelmet said:

I’ve seen it a lot too.  It also is imposing next to Rivendell (feels much bigger) which gives it even more of that wow moment in person.

Really hoping for a small LOtR wave to get leaked soon for early to mid next year. 

I think they are waiting to see how Barad Dur does also alongside with Rivendell.  Then they may determine it would be a good idea to make sets and that could take years to do so the earliest I could see them releasing sets would be 2026.  

[Lordhelmet]

Was there any information that they were waiting for sales data on barad Dur?  I know last year they said they would base the future on sales of Rivendell in an interview.  I have not heard this from any of the interviews I have seen regarding barad dur .  So I agree 2026 could be most likely, the only thing I have heard though is the comments from Rivendell which if they based the market off that set then 2025 is a possibility too.  Unfortunately I think the hunt for gollum is the most likely timeframe we will get anything.  We could also see another set next year just based on the Rivendell sales alone, Barad Dur was definitely in the works by the time Rivendell was released, so it is not outside the realm of possibility that another set (or sets) was started last year alongside barad dur.

 

the only other thing that I can think of is that the current sets have all had the icons or brickheadz design teams working on them.  I have not heard of a team dedicated to LOTR yet.  Just a little concerning as it comes to an actual wave vs. one offs.  I am not sure how they structure their design teams for a small licensed wave (like Indiana jones) if it is pulling a few people into a project, or setting up a design team.  I am assuming there would need to be something more than what the other sets have had though.

21 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

 

I think they are waiting to see how Barad Dur does also alongside with Rivendell.  Then they may determine it would be a good idea to make sets and that could take years to do so the earliest I could see them releasing sets would be 2026. 

[MAB]

I imagine they already have the next LOTR Icons set designed, and have possibly already decided whether it will be released. Whether the designer statement about if it (Rivendell) sells well enough then they will do more was a planned marketing tactic or not, Barad-Dur and the figure designs didn't just appear overnight. Icons sets really are a no-brainer. LEGO control distribution, stock, pricing, sales offers. Smaller sets are totally different if they need to sell in volume, as then they need the toy stores and supermarkets to order (many months in advance) and have faith in the sets selling to their normal toy store and supermarket customers.

Edited June 11 by MAB

[Black Falcon]

8 hours ago, MAB said:

I imagine they already have the next LOTR Icons set designed, and have possibly already decided whether it will be released. Whether the designer statement about if it (Rivendell) sells well enough then they will do more was a planned marketing tactic or not, Barad-Dur and the figure designs didn't just appear overnight. Icons sets really are a no-brainer. LEGO control distribution, stock, pricing, sales offers. Smaller sets are totally different if they need to sell in volume, as then they need the toy stores and supermarkets to order (many months in advance) and have faith in the sets selling to their normal toy store and supermarket customers.

Yeah, there is like no way they aren´t working on the next set already. If Barad-Dûr would sell bad, they would just cancel the set they are working on but they won´t wait to see how the sales are going before starting to work on it.

Anyways for me the best chance for playsets is still the new films. It isn´t that unlikely that they would make sets for them and if they are doing well I can see them starting with LotR playsets again in the years between the new movies.

[hikouki]

18 hours ago, MAB said:

I imagine they already have the next LOTR Icons set designed, and have possibly already decided whether it will be released. Whether the designer statement about if it (Rivendell) sells well enough then they will do more was a planned marketing tactic or not, Barad-Dur and the figure designs didn't just appear overnight. Icons sets really are a no-brainer. LEGO control distribution, stock, pricing, sales offers. Smaller sets are totally different if they need to sell in volume, as then they need the toy stores and supermarkets to order (many months in advance) and have faith in the sets selling to their normal toy store and supermarket customers.

Good point about smaller sets - the profits may not be as guaranteed as larger sets!

I do think that if they do at least one wave of small sets after this much excitement building up from Rivendell and Brad-dur, that this particular wave will be successful, and future waves will totally depend on buyer reception.

10 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Yeah, there is like no way they aren´t working on the next set already. If Barad-Dûr would sell bad, they would just cancel the set they are working on but they won´t wait to see how the sales are going before starting to work on it.

Anyways for me the best chance for playsets is still the new films. It isn´t that unlikely that they would make sets for them and if they are doing well I can see them starting with LotR playsets again in the years between the new movies.

If memory serves me right, Barad-dur went on backorder sooner after initial sales, compared to Rivendell. So that is probably some good 'data' right there.

Does Lego have the licenses to make merchandise for the new films?

[QuiggoldsPegLeg]

2 hours ago, hikouki said:

Does Lego have the licenses to make merchandise for the new films?

Not as far as we know, but since the new movies are made by Warner Brothers, the same company that owns the rights to the trilogy from the early 2000s that Lego is currently making sets based off of, it should probably be really easy for Lego to acquire those rights. 

[Black Falcon]

13 hours ago, hikouki said:

If memory serves me right, Barad-dur went on backorder sooner after initial sales, compared to Rivendell. So that is probably some good 'data' right there.

The real data will be how Barad Dûr will sell without the GWP though. Many waited for better offers with Rivendell because they were not that much into the Brickheads. 

13 hours ago, hikouki said:

Does Lego have the licenses to make merchandise for the new films?

We have no idea what the license they have includes, but I don´t think the license would be the problem if Lego chooses they want to make sets.

[zoth33]

9 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

The real data will be how Barad Dûr will sell without the GWP though. Many waited for better offers with Rivendell because they were not that much into the Brickheads. 

We have no idea what the license they have includes, but I don´t think the license would be the problem if Lego chooses they want to make sets.

Well considering they just announced the movies Lego does not have the licenses to the new Gollum movies and would have to acquire them to even be able to make sets.  Once again that's not how licenses work. Lego can't just do what they want and it would have to be agreed upon in the agreement in what Lego would be allowed to make.  They would have to acquire the rights to make sets from WB and the Tolkien estate.  

Edited June 13 by zoth33

[MAB]

5 hours ago, zoth33 said:

Well considering they just announced the movies Lego does not have the licenses to the new Gollum movies and would have to acquire them to even be able to make sets.  Once again that's not how licenses work. Lego can't just do what they want and it would have to be agreed upon in the agreement in what Lego would be allowed to make.  They would have to acquire the rights to make sets from WB and the Tolkien estate.  

It depends what the current agreement is, as it could be that they have an ongoing agreement for all Middle Earth properties from Warner. Although even with such an agreement in place, I believe that they usually agree what sets will be made. No doubt they get first refusal and don't have to bid to get a contract.  In some cases in the past, they have also sent figures to actors prior to release. Someone connected to Elijah Wood revealed the letter he was sent for the first Frodo figure.

I don't think LEGO has any dealings with the Tolkein estate, do they? The boxes indicate that LEGO deals with Warner, and their representations of characters and storylines. 

Edited June 13 by MAB

[Artanis I]

Although double points are active, it's not enough to get me to pull the trigger - thanks to all the bills just around the corner. Hopefully there's another opportunity later in the year.

Still on back order too.

[Black Falcon]

12 hours ago, zoth33 said:

Well considering they just announced the movies Lego does not have the licenses to the new Gollum movies and would have to acquire them to even be able to make sets.  Once again that's not how licenses work. Lego can't just do what they want and it would have to be agreed upon in the agreement in what Lego would be allowed to make.  They would have to acquire the rights to make sets from WB and the Tolkien estate.  

Well we had that conversation twice already, but anyways. First of all when I wrote I don´t think that the licensing would be a problem, I didn´t say that they can do whatever they want, but it does seem unlikely to me that Warner would refuse if they wanted to make sets. First of all Warner is making money with licensing merchandise and not to forget when those sets are in the shops alongside the films it is also free advertising for them.

Second, what makes you think they would need the rights from Tolkien Estate? WB/New Line have the license from Tolkien Estate but Lego only from WB/New Line, hence why Lego can only show what was in the films. At least that is how I understood it works and also what seems to be common sense when I look back to the conversation about licensing we had in this thread a while back. Now of course, noone really saw the licensing deals here and we are all no experts, but there is like no indication that Lego would have a licensing deal with Tolkien Estate.

Third, again we have no idea what they agreed on in the licensing deal between Warner/New Line and Lego. But I don´t think every single set will be writen down there. Licensing deals often go over several years and they likely won´t know what Sets they will do towards the end of the deal when they sign it. So I would guess, that the licensing deal is just a deal that is about a theme (or might even be a deal that has several IPs in it) which won´t include which set can be done and which cant but rather includes the details of how the process of the licensing goes, what each side has to do, how much % Warner gets from sold sets etc.

For instance, lets say Lego wants to do a Helms Keep set, so of course they will have to ask Warner if they can do it. Now they will build it and will work together with Warner in the design process, for instance Warner might send them material that will help them to design the set and Lego will have to make changes on their build if Warner asks them to. And in the end Warner will have to approve to the final build before Lego is allowed to sell it. 

So, yeah, that beeing said, not every set has to need an own agreement or be part of one, as long as the licensing contract has certains rules set.

 

5 hours ago, Artanis I said:

Although double points are active, it's not enough to get me to pull the trigger - thanks to all the bills just around the corner. Hopefully there's another opportunity later in the year.

Still on back order too.

Yeah, I would wait for double points and a nice GWP. Black Friday usually has good offers, including at least two GWPs.

[zoth33]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

It depends what the current agreement is, as it could be that they have an ongoing agreement for all Middle Earth properties from Warner. Although even with such an agreement in place, I believe that they usually agree what sets will be made. No doubt they get first refusal and don't have to bid to get a contract.  In some cases in the past, they have also sent figures to actors prior to release. Someone connected to Elijah Wood revealed the letter he was sent for the first Frodo figure.

I don't think LEGO has any dealings with the Tolkein estate, do they? The boxes indicate that LEGO deals with Warner, and their representations of characters and storylines. 

I'm pretty sure the Tolkien estate has to agree with anything attached to Tolkiens works.  I could be wrong.  But The Tolkien family is very involved on what happens with Tolkiens works.  

Furthermore just because Lego has a deal with WB doesn't mean they can make sets on any upcoming movies.  That would have to discussed and Lego would have to obtain the rights to make sets on these new movies.  Lego has the rights to make sets on the LOTR trilogy but apparently not the Hobbit from what we saw in Rivendell so there would be no way they just automatically have the rights to make sets off of these new movies.  That's not how that works like I said.  Lego would have to obtain the rights to the Gollum movies to make sets.  The movies were just announced Lego has no rights to make sets off of those movies a deal would have to be made with WB.  

3 hours ago, Black Falcon said:

Well we had that conversation twice already, but anyways. First of all when I wrote I don´t think that the licensing would be a problem, I didn´t say that they can do whatever they want, but it does seem unlikely to me that Warner would refuse if they wanted to make sets. First of all Warner is making money with licensing merchandise and not to forget when those sets are in the shops alongside the films it is also free advertising for them.

Second, what makes you think they would need the rights from Tolkien Estate? WB/New Line have the license from Tolkien Estate but Lego only from WB/New Line, hence why Lego can only show what was in the films. At least that is how I understood it works and also what seems to be common sense when I look back to the conversation about licensing we had in this thread a while back. Now of course, noone really saw the licensing deals here and we are all no experts, but there is like no indication that Lego would have a licensing deal with Tolkien Estate.

Third, again we have no idea what they agreed on in the licensing deal between Warner/New Line and Lego. But I don´t think every single set will be writen down there. Licensing deals often go over several years and they likely won´t know what Sets they will do towards the end of the deal when they sign it. So I would guess, that the licensing deal is just a deal that is about a theme (or might even be a deal that has several IPs in it) which won´t include which set can be done and which cant but rather includes the details of how the process of the licensing goes, what each side has to do, how much % Warner gets from sold sets etc.

For instance, lets say Lego wants to do a Helms Keep set, so of course they will have to ask Warner if they can do it. Now they will build it and will work together with Warner in the design process, for instance Warner might send them material that will help them to design the set and Lego will have to make changes on their build if Warner asks them to. And in the end Warner will have to approve to the final build before Lego is allowed to sell it. 

So, yeah, that beeing said, not every set has to need an own agreement or be part of one, as long as the licensing contract has certains rules set.

 

Yeah, I would wait for double points and a nice GWP. Black Friday usually has good offers, including at least two GWPs.

Like I said that's not how licensing works Lego has the rights to LOTR trilogy and that's it right now obviously since what we saw in the Rivendell set.  Also since these new movies just got announced Lego would have to obtain the rights for the Gollum movies that's how that works.  Just because lego has a deal with WB for the LOTR trilogy doesn't mean they have rights to any upcoming movies.  

[Black Falcon]

29 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

 

Like I said that's not how licensing works Lego has the rights to LOTR trilogy and that's it right now obviously since what we saw in the Rivendell set.  Also since these new movies just got announced Lego would have to obtain the rights for the Gollum movies that's how that works.  Just because lego has a deal with WB for the LOTR trilogy doesn't mean they have rights to any upcoming movies.  

 

The point is, we have no idea what they have or not. You claim they only have the rights for LOTR trilogy right now, then tell me, where you got the info from? Even if they would need a whole new licensing contract for the new films, there is no indication to tell whether they have them or not unless you have some insider infos.

[zoth33]

1 hour ago, Black Falcon said:

The point is, we have no idea what they have or not. You claim they only have the rights for LOTR trilogy right now, then tell me, where you got the info from? Even if they would need a whole new licensing contract for the new films, there is no indication to tell whether they have them or not unless you have some insider infos.

That was discussed with Rivendell on how they couldn't name the dwarf other than Gimli.  They don't hand out generalities in those licensing agreements.  We just got info that the Gollum movies got greenlit.  There is no way that was in the licensing agreement Lego made several years ago when they got the license again and decided to do Rivendell.  They would have no idea that the Gollum movies were being made that's how I know it's not in the licensing agreement.  They would have to gain the rights if they wanted to make sets from those movies now as they just got confirmed.  They just don't say any movies down the line you can go ahead and make sets from them that's not how that works there has to be set parameters to work off of and Lego would need to know what they can and can't do.  I wouldn't mind more LOTR sets. But these movies seem to be a stretch from WB based on only like 1 or 2 pages from the books.  I don't think these movies are a good idea personally.  There are many other stories within the Tolkien world that could be told instead of this story.  The images of the War of the Rohirrim looks good, I had hoped they made sets for those but it seems unlikely at this point as we've heard nothing about sets and the movie is coming in December.  I hope they make sets from LOTR in a smaller price range and an actual wave of sets that everyone can enjoy.  I just don't see them tapping into the Gollum movies if they didn't tap into the ROP.  If Lego is smart they should just concentrate on the Hobbit and LOTR and release several sets from those franchises like Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Bree, Lothlorien, Mirkwood, Rohan, more hobbit holes, Cirith Ungul, Minus Morgul, Angmar, etc.