Aventador2004

Decreasing number of MOCs: affected by criticism?

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alright, im not reading all this.  But why does it seem like we have topics like this started once a month?  Can we just enjoy the hobby instead of criticizing everyone for every little thing possible?!?!?!

Whether it is something about a model, or the way someone comments or the way someone posts a model as world-changing... What Does It Matter?!?!

My opinion is if you want to bicker back and forth about something do it in PMs, dont flood our forums please and thank you

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9 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

What aminnich said. @Jim what are the odds of banning metaposts like this one?

The matter does need to be adressed, but banning is not the way to go. That would be like giving one chance, no ability to think it over, or even talk to someone about it.

Also, the Chinese spam has reappeared it seems.

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3 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

It involves what appears to be a young (if not underage) but otherwise fantastic and contributing member of the community.

Just noticed this part. I have mentioned it before and even with a mod. The fact is how you interact, again, looking twice is a good idea. While I hope it is true, I am only trying, have time to expand. This, while not the best, is a hard step to maturity. We all have moments. We need to look on these and come together as a whole community. Let's hope we can calm and interact as equals again.

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23 minutes ago, Aventador2004 said:

The matter does need to be adressed, but banning is not the way to go.

 

1

Sure it needs to be addressed, but no reason to make a topic about it.  PM someone who could do something about it, if they feel like something should be done about it, then they can.  It is not your job to address the issue.  

Banning is not the way to go, but neither is this topic.  

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8 minutes ago, aminnich said:

Banning is not the way to go, but neither is this topic.  

I think some others disagree... 

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8 hours ago, Tommy Styrvoky said:

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck...

13hdGKQqdmt_FlBnfzSan4jMuchkZA5KtgfbGfqX

 

Make us an amx 40 please!

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To be honest this conversation is probably the funniest and most entertaining thing I've seen on eurobricks... maybe i'm a masoginistic retard? Who knows...

HARSH CRITICISM (and cussing) AHEAD, NOT FOR THE LIGHT-HEARTED

Anyways my take on the situation is to just suck up your punches, sorry for being harsh but stop acting like a load of pussies. 

@Sariel just states that the model does look off and everyone feels triggered about it? Just suck it up mates, it's an opinion

And to be honest, I feel that the model looks off, if not way of... but who gives a shit? It's just my megablocking opinion? There's not need to blow up the situation, it's not like he called @gate 's work a  piece of dog shit. I mean, he loves his own work and that's fine but @Sariel is correct, it does look off but this is something we do run into at eurobricks. Sometimes we get some models that are... well... poorer in quality and then they decide to name their model after something that exists in real life and when someone calls them out for it they get triggered.

Kudos to @gate for taking the situation in a fairly strange albeit kind and considerate manner but there is no need for a bunch of eurobricks members like aventador 2004, erik leppen and even me (probably the most irrelavantto jump into the pile of flames and garbage.

A lot of us at eurobricks seem to take critisim very serioursly, but the truth is that it is your model and if you don't like their comment you either a) accept it or b) tell them to megabluck off (maybe in a more considerate manner) 

 

Anyways sorry for ranting and sorry if I triggered anyone. I don't mean this to heart and if you disagree with me than that is okay, you can have your opinion.

 

ps. mods if you want me remove swearing ill do so in a jiffy, but i think that it adds to the conveying of emotions

 

Image result for pepe

Ha, I love the creative censorship on eurobricks. 

megabluck

megabluck

megabluck

Edited by MattL600

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5 hours ago, Aventador2004 said:

The matter does need to be adressed, but banning is not the way to go. That would be like giving one chance, no ability to think it over, or even talk to someone about it.

Also, the Chinese spam has reappeared it seems.

I'm talking about banning the posts, not the posters - I mean not allowing the posts in the first place. If someone absolutely needs to talk to someone, then they can either do it in the thread or via PM. All it does is clog up the feed.

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12 hours ago, Bartybum said:

All it does is clog up the feed.

If you haven't noticed now.. It seems the conversation is done. Just like that, it's over. 

I don't think @Sariel will ever like me anymore, but hopefully we can put aside the differences and move on.

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I've got nothing against you pal, I'm just tired of the "you can post any comment as long as it's a praise" attitude present here. We can't seriously discuss their models if we can't discuss their flaws.

Edited by Sariel

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47 minutes ago, Sariel said:

I've got nothing against you pal, I'm just tired of the "you can post any comment as long as it's a praise" attitude present here. We can't seriously discuss their models if we can't discuss their flaws.

Then just maybe I'll double check a comment too. I do think we could say these things in a way they don't explode.  This also is the internet. It is always better to talk in life. Miscommunication on my part was a cause to anger, but so we're others. Also I agree it would be nice to have you around more. Being a contributing member too.

Also do hope to meet you in person some day. I'll probably forget this happened by then.

Edited by Aventador2004

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this was not really thouhgt through post, apologies

Edited by Ivan_M

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15 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

edit: this was not really thought through post, apologies

edit: this has been settled now. Thanks Ivan_M :)

I think most, and actually all posts I see here are very mature. We all understand we're not perfect and we all have a proverbial slip of the tongue once in a while. I am sure guilty of this too. In this last discussion too, I have certainly played a part in the whole thing escalating. I don't want that to happen, it somehow happens. I sometimes feel the need to defend someone, and then I don't realize that in defending someone I might attack someone else. And indeed, as stated by others, I',m not a native speaker and this is a text-only medium, so things are easily undrestood by any of us and can take a bad route quickly, without anyone asking for this.

As long as we can stay constructive, I think we're all fine.

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:29 AM, Sariel said:

We can't seriously discuss their models if we can't discuss their flaws.

I think you're completely correct here. I also feel that many people are sometimes too lenient on models could really use some improvement or more thought. So I really think many of us could be more critical.

While discussing the flaws is needed, I also think it's only the first step. The next step, that also needs to be made, is making suggestions to improve.

If you play a tune on a piano (assume for the moment you can't play piano, if you do, read "trumpet"), and someone notes "the timing is all off and the keys are all wrong", does this contain any new info to you? No, you already knew this. And will you become a better piano player? No, of course not. The key is that not only do you know what the flaws are, you have to have some concrete way to overcome them. Some explicit thing that you can go and do next, in order to improve. In the piano example that could be "try only the right hand first" or "try playing it very slow first" or "write a number by each note indicating which finger to use".

So instead of saying "the proportions are off" you can start by stating the proportions are off, and then suggesting a way to prevent this mistake the next time. For example, to use a grid and calculate the sizes in studs, or to overlay a photo of your model with a photo of the reference. Those kinds of suggestions is what inexperienced builders need. If they want to be as good as we are (And I'm sure we want them to be as good as we are), they need to know the tricks we know and use the tools we use. The point is not they have flaws. They know they have flaws. The point is that they know how to fix them, and how they can start fixing them now. Which means, they need a plan they can execute. I think that someone wise enough to discuss a flaw, should also be wise enough to suggest a plan.

(This makes me think about a nice proverb I once heard, that goes as follows (not an exact quote): fairytales aren't told to tell children that monsters exist. Children know that monsters exist. Fairytales are told to tell children that monsters can be killed.)

Edit: thirdly, there is no model that has only flaws. Every model has good sides. If you want to tell people what to change, I think you should also tell people what to keep.

Edited by Erik Leppen

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11 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

Every model has good sides. If you want to tell people what to change, I think you should also tell people what to keep.

The problems lies here. Exactly here. WHY should I, if I just want to point out what is wrong AND how to improve it? Every time I find a flaw in the model, I also give ideas for improvement (resizing, other parts usage etc). It is not empty talking. I do not like to be forced to do anything, so trying to write another "great model nonetheless, keep bricking" does not suits me. I know many builders and none ever complained about that style of commenting, because I just keep it short and simple.
That's the reason why do not write posts too often here, becuase every time I try to suggest something, I get replies that it is harsh and I should write also what I like in the model.

Eh...

Edited by M_longer

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39 minutes ago, M_longer said:

The problems lies here. Exactly here. WHY should I, if I just want to point out what is wrong AND how to improve it? Every time I find a flaw in the model, I also give ideas for improvement (resizing, other parts usage etc). It is not empty talking. I do not like to be forced to do anything, so trying to write another "great model nonetheless, keep bricking" does not suits me. I know many builders and none ever complained about that style of commenting, because I just keep it short and simple.
That's the reason why do not write posts too often here, becuase every time I try to suggest something, I get replies that it is harsh and I should write also what I like in the model.

Eh...

I very much agree. I mean, one does not have to be rude, but simply posting what could be improved is not a bad thing.  And if one posts that something could be improved, this should also not be interpreted as an automatic "i hate your MOC."  That is not what a recommendation means.  Not at all. It simply means that some one sees something that can be improved. 

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Personally, it would seem rather ludicrous to me if the mere suggestion to say something positive would be at the heart of the problem. In short: if your style of commenting feels OK to you, keep it. But let me elaborate.

5 hours ago, M_longer said:

The problems lies here. Exactly here. WHY should I, if I just want to point out what is wrong AND how to improve it? Every time I find a flaw in the model, I also give ideas for improvement (resizing, other parts usage etc). It is not empty talking. I do not like to be forced to do anything, so trying to write another "great model nonetheless, keep bricking" does not suits me. I know many builders and none ever complained about that style of commenting, because I just keep it short and simple.
That's the reason why do not write posts too often here, becuase every time I try to suggest something, I get replies that it is harsh and I should write also what I like in the model.

Eh...

It's not that I force anything on onyone, I am just confident it's genuinely better. For many reasons:

  • Firstly, by also posting the things you like, you just come of as a more balanced and reasonable person. I think suggestions for improvement may be taken more seriously if you also point out the things you like.
  • Secondly, I just think it's common sense. If people want to improve, I think it helps tremendously if they know what they're already doing right. If someone only receives critique (even if constructive) they might start thinking they are a complete failure, Lego-wise, and might just as well move to another hobby, or that they don't feel welcome at EB and leave.
  • Thirdly, why wouldn't you take a bit of time to find something positive? Again, I don't say you must do that (yes, I know I used the word "should", but I don't mean "absolute requirement"), I just think, if you take the time to post anyway, why not take the time to write a more balanced post? Anything worth doing is worth doing well.
  • Fourthly, everyone does things right and it can't hurt to point that out. Even if the effect is near-zero, it hurts absolutely noone. You can be done in three words, e.g. "nice color scheme", or whatever.

Please note that lessons on how to give feedback are part of many trainings, including the teacher's education, and that the idea of pointing out the good things is an early part of such lessons. So it's not just a made-up thing by me. It works.

Lastly I really want to point out that "saying something positive" is NOT "great model, keep bricking". Absolutely not. If you don't like the model as a whole, saying "great model" is a lie and I think you should always be honest. So, saying great model to a model that you don't find great, is a no-go for me. So I'm with you there. Saying something positive could be about anything: the challenge one sets on himself, the originality, the choice of subject matter, the build style, the number of motors, the colors, the size, the functions, the fact it's a C-model, the photos, the amount of explanatory text, the backstory of how one got into the hobby, the way someone replies to feedback, etc. etc. There's always *something* that crossed your minde between seeing something and deciding to react. Just write that something. You don't have to praise the model as a whole. (If you don't like the model as a whole, you certainly shouldn't :classic: )

Again, my posts should be seen as suggestion, not law. Please, keep doing what you think is best. If you're confident your posts are reasonable and constructive, then please, keep doing your own thing. We all benefit from all the various standpoints, including standpoints on how to post. (And to be honest, I didn't at all have you in mind when I wrote my post. I haven't noticed anything particular about any of your recent posts)

Edited by Erik Leppen

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@Erik Leppen You’ve hit the nail right on the head in all of your comments in this thread. You’re an absolute treasure.

If peeps leave positive comments/encouragement even after pulling apart someone’s build, the place becomes heaps more positive and enjoyable for all. I think that’s important.

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I haven't gone through every post, so I don't know exactly what to do. But I am inclined to close this topic. Unless you guys want to discuss this matter further.

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47 minutes ago, Jim said:

close this topic

Hi Jim, please close it, it distracts and all has been discussed in my opinion.

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1 hour ago, Jim said:

But I am inclined to close this topic.

Why?

I'd rather see it kept open, but I'd like to know your reasons. Because the moderation team surely sees things we as mere mortals don't.

To give you my reason: I think a community benefits if it has the ability to discuss itself. As most of the dicussion seems very civil, I think it's a good sign if members can exchange ideas about how we post. (But again, I don't see what you removed). I say if we can exchange Lego building advice, then why not advice-giving advice? :)

(Also, a thing about closed topics is that they always have a "last word", and that last word always goes unchallenged because noone can post anymore, and it somehow feels to me as if that last word is then automatically "the conclusion" or the "consensus", which of course isn't true.)

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I’m all in favor of a good discussion, but things tend to go south, and reports need to be handled. But I will keep it open for now :thumbup: 

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Interesting, i have read comments in both topics ( not all but enough to get the picture what is going on) and think without pointing a finger to any member, that it looks a bigger storm, than it in reality is. If a member points out that you can make improvements or make your build better, then you can only bennifit from that. Last year i have posted my vw t1 xxxl long moc, and some members have sayd to me, that the front could be better. I still havend change it, because i dont know any other way to do it. But i was glad they pointed this out to, so i can take that in considderation by my next moc. Reactions on a build that you post like "beautyfull, nice build, amazing" ect.ect. is what we all love to see. But when someone says this or that can be better, then it is a negative. Give me both, the positive makes me love the hobby, the negative makes me understand the building technique even more. And maybe the "tone" in which it is written isnd allways "nice", but that is i think because the most of us ( me included) are not native English speaking people. So if my grammer or spelling isnd that good, dont hold it against me. I am Dutch, and learned the language from the movies and the tv. I think its great that we have a platform like EB, where you can find ( allmost) everything there is to find about lego including great designers and builders... 


 
Edited by JDL1967

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