Sailpunk v. Historical

[Mesabi]

So, I've been doing some thinking about BoBS, and I kinda realized that my vision of BoBS is probably different than other members of BoBS. 

Specifically, my thought is that the BoBS world is one where steam power and electricity don't exist, so the people of the BoBS world are starting to make everything as efficient as possible with the resources at hand. To this end, we're starting to see horse drawn railways, Leonardo da Vinci-ish inventions, and other innovations that we never saw in real life. 

I prefer this to a historical standpoint, where everything we build is basically a historical model, and things are modeled historically rather than speculatively. 

I suppose though, we're in a bit of a mix at the moment, as we do see proper historical models (which I don't ever want to see go away, don't get me wrong) but also things from the later 1800s, such as diving suit (1830s) Or Balloons, which really became common place after the Napoleonic Era. Additionally we see giant ships that were built way after 1815, and that never saw combat, because steam ships took over.

Officially, as I've read, the BoBS world is no more advanced than the end of the Napoleonic Era, which ended in 1815. However, this does beg the question, at least for me, how far can we stretch this with technology? Can I build in good faith a machine gun, as long as it fits the rules of technology of the time? (Such as an arrow machine gun, or one of Leonardo Da Vinci's designs) Or how about tanks? (Again, Leonardo) How about hot air balloons? How far can I take them as well?

Really, we're all here to build ships, play pirates and empires, and have fun while telling good stories. I just thought I'd clarify the setting a little. 

And, leadership, please don't waste to much time on this, this is just something I thought I'd bring up out of curiosity, and to see what other people think on the matter. 

[LM71Blackbird]

I personally like the more realistic aspect of BoBS. It would be cool to maybe expand it slightly, but I don't think steam ships and stuff like that would really be a match in my opinion. Interesting question though Mesabi!

[Bregir]

I'd say there is some leeway for alternative da vinci-ish technology, but everything has to be within the time frame.

BoBs has to contain anything from early exploration to late napoleonic era. If we start pushing technology beyond this, we mess up what we have. And ruin the picture I personally have. I have no interest in a sail punk setting for this. It is an age of sail setting with some mythological aspects, and we do see some alternative designs, such as Jacob Nions first ship, where the guns where in a circular bastion up front. Those are fine as they are examples of how the technology at hand could have been employed differently. But when you start introducing a machine gun, the gamemasters (me... Muhahah!) will demote it to a failed experiment.

Yes, you can build early mitralleuses or puckle guns, but they have to be made with technology of the day, and I doubt anyone will accept them as "wonder weapons".

Sail punk belongs somewhere else, if you ask me. At least the more explicit examples.

Ps: The giant first rates where a thing well within the era. The victory was launched in 1765, if I remember correctly. And the Spanish built their three deckers before the wars.

[gedren_y]

I push things a little with the pregnancy prevention potion that my priestesses make. There were such concoctions in the era, but they were quite toxic and more for what we would call abortion now. I try to keep the mystical aspects of the Triuri faith a bit nebulous. Some of the ceremonies involve hallucinogens.

[Darnok]

I voted for the mix, and do not see how anybody could argue with a straight face that BotBS is strictly one or the other.

 

This game is obviously not purely historical. If it was, many builds would have to be rejected as inappropriate. BotBS is not realistic either - neither gods nor magic are a thing in the real world, but both have a place in the game.

 

As for the other option: BotBS has no focus on Sailpunk. Some elements of Sailpunk are around, but they are rare.

 

Overall I would say that the relation between "historical/realistic" and "Sailpunk" in BotBS is about 80:20. Maybe even 90:10. The bias towards historical accuracy and realism is obvious, and I have no problem with this. I do however appreciate the option to be unrealistic when I feel like it. And I have the feeling that this is pretty much the consensus among everyody here.

[Spud The Viking]

I strongly support historical accuracy, yet I'm not dogmatic on what people want to build either. Sure, you can be experimental like those back in the day, eg. my fellow countryman James Watt. At the same time I think overusing experimental stuff takes away the feel for me.

For example, the game Battlefield 1, it has so many prototype weapons in place of the millions of regular rifles used in the Great War. Is it still fun? Sure, that's up to you playing it, but it takes away the historical charm.

[Bodi]

Definitely historical accuracy, I shall keep my clean, white sails away from smoke and oil.

[Ross Fisher]

8 hours ago, Drunknok said:

This game is obviously not purely historical. If it was, many builds would have to be rejected as inappropriate.

Agreed. I'd enjoy a historically accurate game, but the leeway we've got allows for both limited brick collections and a bit of humour, both of which help make the game more enjoyable and inclusive.

[Keymonus]

I voted for the mix, and I think that in this way everything is fine. I try to be as historically accurate as possible in my builds, but it’s also fine seeing someone stretching things a little (within reason). In my opinion a sporadic use of hot air balloons, someone selling popcorn or a football match are completely ok, as much as seeing armored conquistadors and galleons side by side with eighteenth-century uniforms and ships.

In summary: BoBS is not real world and so even being not completely historical is fine, but I prefer real world based builds.

[Darnok]

12 hours ago, Bregir said:

But when you start introducing a machine gun, the gamemasters (me... Muhahah!) will demote it to a failed experiment.

What could this possibly relate to?

 

But as you mentioned, things like the puckle gun or the mitrailleuse are historical facts, as is the volley gun. All of these fit in the Age of Sail, so are historically and realistically correct, and thus appropriate for BotBS - and that is without any concepts from Sail Punk whatsoever.

So while my first attempt at bringing something similar to the game (see above) can of course be declared a failed experiment, I will continue bringing up the idea again in the future. At some point the experiments will succeed!

Edited August 18, 2018 by Drunknok

[gedren_y]

I think if the weapons are treated as difficult to produce, they would be allowed. If you were to have them mass produced, however, then you get too far into the industrial revolution.

[Darnok]

5 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

I think if the weapons are treated as difficult to produce, they would be allowed. If you were to have them mass produced, however, then you get too far into the industrial revolution.

Completely agreed. It would be some kind of exotic "wunderwaffe", with no impact on the game except for the odd AMCRA showing (like in the Pirate Hunt). Other than that it should have no ingame effect whatsoever.

[Bodi]

15 hours ago, Bregir said:

such as Jacob Nions first ship, where the guns where in a circular bastion up front.

You mean a Venetian galleass?

[Brickwolf]

IMHO Corrington should have some Sailpunk, to represent Corrington´s cutting edge technology. Just don`t overdo it.

 

[Ross Fisher]

3 hours ago, Brickwolf said:

Corrington should have some Sailpunk, to represent Corrington´s cutting edge technology

I like that idea. Get some national variety into your ships. Oleon can build floating cathedrals, and Eslandola can bedazzle their boats. Sea Rats have black sails...?

[KotZ]

I voted for the mix, merely because I can see diving suits being a thing (such as the one-man submarine "Turtle" that was documented in 1775), with aheavy leaning into the historicity. Puckle guns, diving suits, etc (within limited uses) make sense to me, but going into the steampunk type of world would make me turn away from the game, as I want Age of Sail with this. I know I haven't been around a lot recently (yay real world), but I would prefer to keep this game as much to the historical era we set it in as much as possible.

[Capt Wolf]

I voted historical/realistic, but only because I don't consider it a mix with sailpunk. I do consider it a mix with some fantasy elements, such as sea monsters and the gods and such. And I think when the DaVinci type stuff is done well, it's a lot of fun.

[Roadmonkeytj]

On 8/18/2018 at 5:52 PM, Ross Fisher said:

I like that idea. Get some national variety into your ships. Oleon can build floating cathedrals, and Eslandola can bedazzle their boats. Sea Rats have black sails...?

Searat ships would be a mix of all as any nationality is welcome and many of our ships are prizes

The way i see our ships is Cor more british influence ESL more spanish style and OL is clearly heavily influenced by the french.

[Kai NRG]

7 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

ESL more spanish style

Dutch influence is strong too though!

[Roadmonkeytj]

25 minutes ago, Kai NRG said:

Dutch influence is strong too though!

Very true but i think the dutch influence spreads through all nations in bobs

Edited August 21, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj