M-Tron, BlackTron, Ice Planet, Space Police - 1990s - this was the best era of Lego Space

[MAB]

17 hours ago, pombe said:

At the three fan conventions I've been to, there has been large displays dedicated to Classic Space and the subthemes.  The last one I went to had two tables: one for Classic Space and one for Space Police I!

When I trawl through the Flickr LEGO group photos there are Classic Space MOCs posted nearly every day!

TLG knows that LEGO Space is popular, so what's holding them back?  Well...let's see...

Fans have an outlet to let TLG know what we want: LEGO Ideas.  They even gave us the Exosuit (with turtle).  I bought three.  The question I have is why don't Classic Space submissions hit 10,000 votes more often?  The good ones seem to time out at around 6-7,000 votes.  I vote for every single one I see, regardless of quality!

Sure they threw us a bone with Benny's Spaceship.  I bought four.  I suppose I could have bought more...

But ultimately, my single vote for an Ideas project and my limited wallet don't constitute a large enough political voting bloc to make any significant difference to TLG's finances.

The bottomline is that if we want to see LEGO Space return, we need to provide evidence to TLG that the market is there.  And I'm thinking that doesn't exist and that in order for LEGO Space to return, it will have to incorporate lessons from Ninjago.  Except that Galaxy Squad did that and failed.  So I've hit a mental wall.

3

I don't think TLG do know that. They know it is popular amongst adults of a certain age, the ones that do displays at conventions and post on flickr. But that Classic Space IDEAS don't get voted to 10,000 indicates that this is a fairly small hard core of fans and not a wider fanbase. If people want classic space, space police, Blacktron, M-Tron, etc, that's great, the sets and parts exist, so buy them on BL. I'd prefer a new space theme over a resurrection of an old one. I wouldn't mind a few Easter Eggs in there with logos and so on (like the green futuron figure they did in the City set) but I'd prefer a modern day view of the future / space, rather than a 40 year old view of the future.

 

[Alltron]

@icmI appreciate you for taking the time to post your thoughts.  Same goes for everyone else.  Perhaps Star Wars is the main inhibitor of a revived Lego Space at the end of the day, if The Lego Company feels there is too much crossover between the two.  I wish that wasn't the case, as I'm the sort of person who believes you can never have too much space opera.  Most of my favourite franchises have aliens in, but there was something about Space Police III, Alien Conquest and Galaxy Squad that felt sort of infantalised, and as a kid, I wanted things that didn't condescend me.

I was having a quick look at the Ninjago and Nexo shows the other day, and I can tell you one reason why for me at least, I would be less interested in Nexo than in Ninjago.  Ninjago started with a wise old master, an interesting skeleton like villain, an evil force, in a big world, albeit it is hardly as mature as Avatar/Naruto.  Nexo on the other hand looked too clean and artificial as a setting, plus there was a lot silly humour.  Those were just quick impressions.  Speaking just for myself, but as a kid, I used to feel that overblown attempts at comedy were kind of condescending, and undermined the seriousness of a given show, I was keen to watch Gerry Anderson shows like Stingray, Thunderbirds, Captain Scarlett, UFO, Space 1999 or indeed other adult sci-fi like Star Trek than something on children's TV where the world was too silly to believe.  Obviously Lego Space isn't a serious space opera, but it's vehicles were suggestive of real processes like law enforcement, mining and production.  Even that brief two second clip in the Lego Movie of two classic space figures floating in micro-gravity was suggestive.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Alltron

[Alltron]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I don't think TLG do know that. They know it is popular amongst adults of a certain age, the ones that do displays at conventions and post on flickr. But that Classic Space IDEAS don't get voted to 10,000 indicates that this is a fairly small hard core of fans and not a wider fanbase. If people want classic space, space police, Blacktron, M-Tron, etc, that's great, the sets and parts exist, so buy them on BL. I'd prefer a new space theme over a resurrection of an old one. I wouldn't mind a few Easter Eggs in there with logos and so on (like the green futuron figure they did in the City set) but I'd prefer a modern day view of the future / space, rather than a 40 year old view of the future.

 

That's interesting.  Perhaps that's a different enough and new angle.  Maybe Lego could go for capturing realistic futurism for their next space minifig theme, if they never intend to return to 90s Lego Space.  "Lego Space 2019" could be a range of sets that still have minifigs, so aren't Lego technic, but maybe get input/consultants from current space companies for ideas, have things like honeycomb shaped cockpits.  Maybe if we will never get a revival of classic factions, Lego could do a realistic update on them as rival private space companies or colonies or something; what companies like Boeing or SpaceX might make of a space-suit civilization in 200 years, but with hyper-realistic Blacktron and Space Police replacing them:

Edited July 19, 2018 by Alltron

[MAB]

There is of course another competitor here, and that is the NASA angle. Saturn V, Mars Rover, Women of NASA, various Shuttles. They are competing with Space sets too, just as SW is.

There is always a complication that any future sets should not be too close to current / recent technology as they would look like the real ones.

[Ninja_Bait]

I think one of the cool things about the 90's themes is that they were competing factions but not necessarily heroes and villains, so you could imagine compelling characters on either side.  I would love to get a new wave of space sets that tells that "heroes on both sides" story well (which I am learning is pretty common in space and mecha anime).

[danth]

On 7/18/2018 at 8:05 PM, Artanis I said:

And it doesn't clog up a whole shelf-worth of retail space or too much factory time etc. Similar has been said about Castle. I am all for it.

Oh man if they did this for Space and Castle I'd be over the moon! Just need one great Black Falcons set, then Forest Men, then Lion Knights. 

The best part about Themed Creator sets is that they'd be great to buy in multiples. You'd want to have one set for each of the three builds, plus all the minifigs and parts would be super useful for MOCing within the theme. 

[Space Police XVIII]

On 7/16/2018 at 1:37 PM, pombe said:

All I really want is for TLG to release a classic space printed elements pack.

 

There's at least one third party doing this.   http://steindrucker.com/space-classic

[Digger of Bricks]

On 7/17/2018 at 3:53 AM, Alltron said:

For fun, I thought, how could the different themes be arranged into one timeline?  Maybe:

- Early times: "Classic Space" culture begins the colonisation of other worlds throughout the great void of space, launching rocket probes from their space buggies

- Middle history 1: "BlackTron", a criminal and technologically advanced culture arise to menace this new pressure-suit phase of spacefaring civilization, "Space Police I" apprehend them

- Middle history 2: "M-Tron", "Ice Planet" cultures are mining water and minerals to sustain this civilization, "BlackTron" develops more advanced technology, "Space Police II" apprehend them

- Middle history 3: "Spyrius", a very aggressive faction with advanced robotics, arises to menace the spreading pressure-suit clad civilization, so all other factions merge to form "Unitron"

- Later times: "Exploriens" culture emerges after victory unites all of human civilization in peace, and they explore the universe, conducting scientific experiments

Peter Reid and Tim Goddard's book LEGO Space: Building the Future has a timeline of their own that starts out with Classic Space, moves on towards Ice Planet 2002, introduces Blacktron I with Space Police I following close behind, and finally wraps up with Futuron at the book's end.

On 7/17/2018 at 9:59 AM, Alltron said:

- Space Police IV (dark green canopy maybe, or dark red maybe)

- Blacktron III (keeping light green, or maybe a light blue canopy like Unitron/Exploriens for distinctiveness

Personally, I'd kinda like to see the third iteration of Blacktron make its appearance under a fourth Space Police theme. As for the color schemes and exterior aesthetics of either one, I think Space Police IV would adopt a color scheme of Dark Azure/Dark Bluish Grey/Trans-Red with a streamlined, Art Deco Buck Rogers like design aesthetic, while Blacktron III would take on a Black and Trans-Bright Orange color scheme with a slinky, Tron Legacy like aesthetic.

On 7/18/2018 at 1:33 PM, danth said:

I'll say it before and I'll say it again.

Space. Themed. Creator. Sets.

They'd only need one set a year to make old fans happy and they could change the theme for each set (Blacktron, Ice Planet, etc). 

The sets would ideally have no stickers, classic style minifigs, and a couple of printed bricks -- like existing Creator sets. And they'd have the usual alternate builds, reusable parts, and interesting build techniques. I'd hope each set would have a ship, rover/mech, and base build, with a few different wind screens.

Total win for everybody. 

I (and @LegoMonorailFan for that matter) second this of course. I mean, seriously, it's still a no-brainer.

On 7/19/2018 at 12:29 AM, icm said:

I would also like a peaceful, humans-only, exploration-oriented Space subtheme that makes some nods toward "realism" and some nods toward the 1978-1983 classic, but (as I have said in other threads) most of what I would really want out of such a subtheme is covered pretty well, in a set here and a set there, in other themes right now.

I've said this before elsewhere, but given some of the directions the theme has gone in more recent years, I think such a line would make itself very well at home as a subtheme of City.

16 hours ago, MAB said:

There is always a complication that any future sets should not be too close to current / recent technology as they would look like the real ones.

Personally, I don't know why Lego couldn't take inspiration from something like Star Trek for their next Space theme, as it's premise and setting can sit in between the realism of NASA based source material and the high fantasy of Star Wars. Essentially, I could see such a theme being a mix of Classic Space and Adventurers, focused perhaps upon a single starship crew on their long term mission to explore new worlds and discover new extraterrestrial cultures.

[Alltron]

Wow, that book is incredible! 

Look at the passion Lego Space inspires!

Also I agree with @Ninja_Bait - I would like to perhaps see them more as competing factions than good vs evil really.

[wesker]

I'd like to see some of those classic 90s-era Space themes return. Blacktron, Space Police, M-Tron, Ice Planet and Spyrius were definitely the peak of the space theme for me. Although I would like to see them retain their original color schemes as much as possible. Don't think I'd be as interested if they drastically changed them up.

[Alltron]

I found another description of the factions in an old Lego catalogue; sharing for those interested:

[TalonCard]

On 7/17/2018 at 3:53 AM, Alltron said:

- Early times: "Classic Space" culture begins the colonisation of other worlds throughout the great void of space, launching rocket probes from their space buggies

- Middle history 1: "BlackTron", a criminal and technologically advanced culture arise to menace this new pressure-suit phase of spacefaring civilization, "Space Police I" apprehend them

- Middle history 2: "M-Tron", "Ice Planet" cultures are mining water and minerals to sustain this civilization, "BlackTron" develops more advanced technology, "Space Police II" apprehend them

- Middle history 3: "Spyrius", a very aggressive faction with advanced robotics, arises to menace the spreading pressure-suit clad civilization, so all other factions merge to form "Unitron"

- Later times: "Exploriens" culture emerges after victory unites all of human civilization in peace, and they explore the universe, conducting scientific experiments 

You could probably fit other eras of Lego space into the timeline, or rearrange this timeline so that, say, Space Police II comes before Space Police I (some of the Space Police I stuff looks almost like an evolution), but I like the idea that all these eras are closely linked, as their equipment is very very similar.  

Pulling from what little official LEGO lore there is for the space/future themes, there are dates to certain eras and themes--it's pretty close.

2050 - Space Police I

2079 - Classic Space (date appears on computer monitors in sets 926, 493, and 6970)

2210 - LEGO Racers (date from LEGO website)

2560s - Exo Suit set (Teaser image for LEGO Ideas #007 Exo Suit)

3147 - Exploriens (Catalog image, earliest of multiple dates given for Exploriens)

3777 - Time Cruisers (Audio dramas)

One could assume that Life on Mars is set before 2079, with the Futuron-Unitron run occurring between the 2560s and 3800s. Mars Mission probably takes place after Life on Mars. The LEGO Factory "Star Justice" and "Space Skulls" sets were based on the pre-Classic Space design concept, and so may take place before the 2070s. (The "Space Skulls" were known to be active for over 50 years according to My LEGO Network; I like to think they're rogue Ogel drones.  ) 

Classic Space is the only "theme" that seems to be separated from the other Space themes by a long period of time; some comic ads show time travel between the two eras. Most other space themes are shown to coexist to some degree. 

The Exploriens have a relatively long faction lifespan, 3147 is the earliest date given for the theme, but they're also shown to be active in the post-3777 setting of the Time Cruisers audio dramas, as are the Spyrius and Unitron factions. Aquazone is also said to be somewhere in the post-3777 timeline. Both the UFO and Alien Conquest invaders are ancient factions with activities spanning millennia, according to various commercial and comics tie-ins. The Insectoids are refugees from a shared homeworld with the UFO aliens, and are seen using tech from Explorien and Spyrius factions in the Insectoid Invasion book.

Rock Raiders is tied to space through its backstory in the games and books, but its placement is undefined. Galaxy Quest's place in the timeline is unknown, but Ultra Agents features a decades-older version of one of the characters from that theme. Space Police III and its webseries tie-in features multiple references to earlier Space factions, placing it at the farthest known point forward in the timeline.

There have been a couple of organizations mentioned: World Space, later replaced by Fleet Command (tied to the Star Justice faction), from My LEGO Network, the Federation, from the Exo Suit booklet, and the United Galaxies, from the 1990s catalogs. One could name the eras after them: World Space (2010s-2050s) Fleet Command (2050s-2070s) Classic Space (2070s-2560s) United Galaxies (2570s+), but that's just pure speculation.

TC

[rockyzg]

After stumbling upon this page by accident I was very happy to see it, because as 80's child I owned quite a few of those space sets. Not biggest ones... Legos were quite expensive in that period compared to now (when looking at monthly income - Lego set price ratio). 

Why I did not return to Legos when I became older and had money to spend? Because majority of modern sets... well... simply put - they suck. They use extreme quantity of modified non-standard bricks, which look good, but do not appeal to me. Except Star Wars sets, but I choose to not go that way, because then I will end up with house full of SW Legos.

These Space sets from 80's and 90's are just fantastic. They have retro futuristic vibe, which is undeniably cool. At least to everyone older than 30-40 

But now I managed to finally find where my old Legos ended up (just waiting for good opportunity to collect them), also I managed to dig few nice small vintage sets on local flea market... so I will have some happy assembling to do  MOC of course, because that is where the fun lies. I still remember improvizing with much simpler Lego Technic of that age, making suspension using rubber bands because I did not have official Lego suspension bricks. Also various Lego catapults with rubber bands... Ahhh good old times, I had so much fun with Legos!

Also now with child on the way, I just hope he or she will be into Legos... oh Lord please let it be so 

I hope Lego will issue some homage Space sets, that would be really cool to get!

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by rockyzg

[Shroud]

I actually still have all the old space LEGO sets from Blacktron, Mtron, ice planet and space police. They are such great sets, the new release of space police I thought was good. The PT cruiser and tow truck especially. TLG do need to bring more out though. Futuristic ones, not NASA rockets etc.

[Jobalisk]

Just my two cents on this whole revival thing. The way i see it, TLG has already tried to revive it, I mean we had mars mission as a revival of classic space/mission to mars, space police 3, alien conquest is pretty obviously a revival of UFO as is galaxy squad of Insectiods, but the thing is, it flopped. I mean sure, mars mission was reasonably successful, at least in my country. The issue is that TLG tried to takes things too far into the whole 'revival/renewal' phase and, while mars mission was kind of cool in a way, the others just came off as bland and somewhat poorly executed spin offs.

and thats the thing, its all just rehashes of already existing ideas, although there are some new twists to it like the fact each is now duel faction, a lot of it is just not original thinking.

[danth]

59 minutes ago, Jobalisk said:

I mean we had mars mission as a revival of classic space/mission to mars, space police 3, alien conquest is pretty obviously a revival of UFO as is galaxy squad of Insectiods, but the thing is, it flopped.

I don't think any of those were revivals. None of them were really stylistically or thematically related the their predecessors at all.

Space Police might be close although stylistically it looked more like Futuron and the bad guys were rag tag space bikers/pimps and nothing like Blacktron. I'm not even sure it was deep space and not future city what with the flying cars and that city-esque police station.

And they flopped? Really? All of them? Mars Mission flopped, so then they did Space Police 3? And then that flopped so they did Alien Conquest? And that flopped so then they did Galaxy Squad? I'm not sure LEGO would be that suicidal. Also nobody has the sales figures so it's all speculation. 

[Jobalisk]

As i said, mars mission didnt flop. Space police did ok from the looks of things, but yes, the others were a bit of a flop, otherwise we would have more stuff out at the moment, which we don't.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Jobalisk

[Aanchir]

I don't see how the other themes "coming across as spin-offs" would have been an issue considering that most of the target audience would have had little to no awareness of the original themes that inspired them. And anyhow, Space Police 3 was by far my favorite 21st century space theme.

On 10/11/2018 at 8:54 PM, danth said:

Space Police might be close although stylistically it looked more like Futuron and the bad guys were rag tag space bikers/pimps and nothing like Blacktron. I'm not even sure it was deep space and not future city what with the flying cars and that city-esque police station.

I would say that Space Police 3 was a very faithful re-imagining. Even though it did change a number of things like the color scheme and antagonists, it maintained both the Space Police theme's defining purpose/goals (fight crime… in SPACE!), core gimmicks/play patterns (futuristic criminal containment pods that can be loaded onto ships or dropped off at HQ), and even a lot of old-school LEGO Space design cues in general like massive flagships with an onboard lab and rover, planetary bases with huge domed windows, etc). Not to mention the extensive allusions to LEGO Space themes of the past. Considering that no other Space Police or Blacktron revival ever kept any meaningful aspects of the color scheme, design language, or logos consistent with the previous incarnation, and even the Classic Space design language did not remain anywhere near as consistent as AFOLs prefer to remember it, I think purpose/goals and gimmicks/play patterns are a bigger part of conceptually defining each faction than the colors, shapes, and insignias.

Like, if LEGO brought back Exploriens and it had all the same colors as classic Exploriens but DIDN'T have the "researching alien fossils" concept, holographic stickers, or an "X-Ray" gimmick, I don't think I'd call that a faithful re-imagining at all. Likewise, I can't tell you how many times I've been bummed out by fan-created or proposed M:Tron re-imaginings and reboots that fail to evoke both the emergency response role of the original theme and the magnetic transport gimmick (even as aware as I am that magnet gimmicks are probably never coming back due to changes in toy safety standards, you can't really have M:Tron without magnets, or at least implied ones)!

[Elana-chan]

The era I pay attention to most when it comes to the space themes starts with the release of M-Tron. From there its a continuous timeline up until after the Unitron sets were released. In my opinion, the Exploriens never quite fit in with the sub-themes before or after. I do however feel like the UFO and Insectoids themes fit right in with the others from that era, to an extent I would also say Roboforce fits in as well, thanks to the influence from spyrus of building huge mechs. I think the main reason I tend to exclude the exploriens from that grouping is due to none of the promotional material I remember has them interacting with anyone else and just kinda doing their own thing, where as I do seem to recall some kind of cross theme interaction between Roboforce/UFO/Insectoids. After looking at the timeframe for the release of these sets, I would say the golden age of lego's own space themes ended in 1999. After this point, none of the newer sets appealed to me as much. This is just a guess on my part, but I think the root cause of the source behind these great themes fizzling after this point was because the last of those wonderful sets were made the same year that star wars first got introduced as a lego product (1999). It's like they didn't feel the need to try as hard once they got the license, and the last of the great original themes were probably already late in the design phase or ready to be released when they officially obtained the license to make the SW sets.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Elana-chan

[Northcott]

So cool!

[TeriXeri]

Color wise 80s and 90s were very interesting, lots of different transparent colors were only mostly seen with Space sets until later.

1993 Castle used trans neon orange flames on it's dragon's breath, same year Ice Planet was introduced, later also seen in Fright Knights, with the dragons wings/breath.

1995 Aquazone was the first big non-space theme to use larger transparent parts.

Up until 1997, Town mostly had trans clear and light-blue larger parts, with some 1x1 studs and plates in other transparent colors.

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Elana-chan]

I always had the concept that the aquazone stuff was lurking just beneath the waves of the town and other themes that have a surface ocean element to them, but I've also wanted to figure out a way to link it with the 90's space themes. I've just never had the inspiration on how it could be done. I suppose there could be some kind of underwater tunnel that pops out on the surface of a space area, but if there's no apparent portal, how does one explain the connection if the space stuff is supposed to be on another astral body?

[Pdaitabird]

49 minutes ago, Elana-chan said:

I always had the concept that the aquazone stuff was lurking just beneath the waves of the town and other themes that have a surface ocean element to them, but I've also wanted to figure out a way to link it with the 90's space themes. I've just never had the inspiration on how it could be done. I suppose there could be some kind of underwater tunnel that pops out on the surface of a space area, but if there's no apparent portal, how does one explain the connection if the space stuff is supposed to be on another astral body?

Answer: Stargate.

[Artanis I]

Apparently Aquazone was supposed to be on some other planet anyway. So it WAS a Space theme, just that instead of being based on the surface it was underwater.

[Elana-chan]

10 hours ago, Pdaitabird said:

Answer: Stargate.

From what I understand, stargates aren't easy to miss, which would detract from the concept of a portal being hidden from plain sight .