Opinions on LEGO Technic Theme

[Jim]

6 hours ago, dr_spock said:

13L flex axles even comes in dark pink now. 

My dreams come true  

[RohanBeckett]

2017's 42070 B Model:

1981's 8859 B-Model

 

Both equally odd! :)

 

Personally.. although I've been a Technic fan since age8-9 (was born in '75), and I've owned and built a large amount of studded, and studless sets.. I'm on the camp of 'swings and roundabouts'... some good sets.. some poor sets in every years' release

And lately, since I've headed into a specific niche (GBC), I'm not as excited about sets as I used to.  Since I look at every set as a 'parts pack' and if I see a set with a lot of 'useless' parts for me.. I often skip it - in favour of spending my Lego Money on bricklink orders, for the exact parts I need.

I did a tyre stocktake the other weekend.. and I have well over 200 tyres from technic sets alone!!  the last thing I need is another set with a dozen wheels! :)

But when I do buy a set, I definitely prefer ones with interesting mechanisms/linkages, and a good A and B model

 

[Permo]

I think the new style Lego Technic is absolutely the coolest toy on the planet.

I'm fairly new to this as I started my Lego hobby in January this year after a night at my friends place, he and his son got a lot of Lego and I told him I would love to do that again after not having touched any Lego since '86. (I grew up with Lego in the 70's)

Well, it took about 10 minutes and I was hooked, I immediately digged the new system and I saw why it went that way, all the frustration I had as a kid with the old system and the things you could not do with it were now solved, and with the addition of the new PF and pneumatics it is now absolutely epic.

So the next day I went on an auction site and got me a 2nd hand crawler and bought the Porsche, some time after that I felt the need for more PF so I got me another crawler (I didn't know about the V1 vs V2 IR system at that time but oh boy I feel lucky I did that)

I don't care for sets at all, building the Porsche from the booklet must have been the most boring thing I ever did in my life, no room for creativity at all, actually I did not want to build it at all, just use the parts, but somehow I felt obliged to build it first, something I wil not do ever again in my life, if I buy another set I will just dump the parts in my bins, trow away the booklets and box and be done with it. Building a set feels like painting by numbers, it's painting for people who can't actually paint.... but what if you can paint ? ... just get a blank canvas, the most beautifull thing in the world is a blank canvas..... endless potential.

And that is what Lego is for me, an endless potential.

And I feel that's what's Lego is all about, it's not about the sets, it's all about what YOU do with it, sets are only there to introduce new parts and extend your collection of bits and colours and providing it in a set form will make it more appealing instead of selling boxes with random parts and bits, especially to the kids this toy is aimed at. It's we, the adults who are the crazy ones for using a kids toy to do serious engineering with it...

Personally I am getting very annoyed with all the so called complaints with the new sets some people feel the need expressing over and over and over again.... If this was my forum I would simply ban the mofo's for a while, some people really need to go see a shrink.

I think the new sets are all pretty awesome, but I'm not buying any of them as I wil simply end up with way to much Lego to store, I rather just buy the parts I need (don't have yet) and I think it's really cool the new bits in the Chiron can be bought separately allready, so I don't need to buy the Chiron to get the new parts....

The new Technic is epic !!!

 

Cheers !

 

[LennyRhys]

I agree with many of the things that have been said in this thread.  Speaking as somebody who came "back" to Technic with 42030 and 42042, I didn't like it at first because I was unfamiliar with the vastly different inventory of pieces and building techniques, however now I really do love the new Technic system and about two weeks ago I bought 42055 and 42065 for parts.  I also have a bricklink order coming in the post tomorrow which will give me 4x CLAAS wheels/tyres and some transmission parts for a 4x4 vehicle. 

One thing is for sure though:  LEGO Technic is basically a different thing from what it was 25 years ago.  It has become less of a toy and more of a prototyping "tool" nowadays, considering the potential for extremely complex gear trains and motorised functions.  But this hasn't happened quickly... remember that the humble clutch parts were introduced in 1994 with the 8880 supercar, and they are still being refined 24 years later in the Bugatti Chiron!

I also notice people talking about the size of sets, and this for me is a bit concerning because while the models themselves get huge, axles and pins are the same size and are becoming too small for the jobs that they do.  That's why for the largest Technic wheels we have a need for yet more specialised parts like portal axles and wheel hubs.  I particularly like the use of mini turntables in 42055 to bear the weight of the digging and conveyor structure... that is a very clever design indeed.

I think it's better to view modern Technic and "old" Technic as two different toys or systems, because they are so different that it's almost impossible to compare them.  8868 will always be one of the best Technic sets ever, but so will 42043 (and others... etc.).

[Bartybum]

2 hours ago, Permo said:

Personally I am getting very annoyed with all the so called complaints with the new sets some people feel the need expressing over and over and over again.... If this was my forum I would simply ban the mofo's for a while, some people really need to go see a shrink.

Well I’m definitely happy you’re not a mod... you shouldn’t have such an adverse reaction towards people disliking things that you like. The problems people have with Technic as it stands today are perfectly valid.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Bartybum

[agrof]

@Permo Good to see different opinions, and even more important: to accept them. One of us finds the pleasure in MOCing, another one is on building official sets, one can be fan of both. I see no issue in this. New parts are essential for improvement, they are always welcome, meanwhile the sets as stand alone products can be / must be evaluated too.

What you are saying is like people should get banned who buy TVs for sake of having TVs (and demanding to work them flawless), instead of buying IC-s, resistances, wires etc... and build their own TV. There is simply many interest, many aspects, there is no universal truth in the universe.

You have the right to get annoyed by complaints - but than You just keep away from the forum for a while. People, who complain also have the same choice, or even further to quit from this hobby if LEGO is not evolving in their's taste. We are here to discuss, it is a friendly place to give out the steam, or just share the fun. Cheers! 

Edited June 19, 2018 by agrof

[Jim]

9 minutes ago, agrof said:

@Permo Good to see different opinions...

You have the right to get annoyed by complaints...

Well, it's not really about different opinions. It's about people bashing TLG over and over again. It's okay to mention you don't like the Porsche (for example), but you don't need to express the same negative feelings in every topic on every page. That is what @Permo is referring to.

36 minutes ago, Bartybum said:

Well I’m definitely happy you’re not a mod... you shouldn’t have such an adverse reaction towards people disliking things that you like. The problems people have with Technic as it stands today are perfectly valid.

See my previous comment. The problems might be valid, but there's no need to express them over and over again.

Other than that, we do need to keep in mind that TLG is running a toy company and not a "let's please the AFOLs company". If you hate it so much, don't buy it. Or simply get the cool new parts and skip the set (Bugatti for example).

It's perfectly okay to complain about Technic in this topic by the way 

[agrof]

3 minutes ago, Jim said:

Well, it's not really about different opinions. It's about people bashing TLG over and over again. It's okay to mention you don't like the Porsche (for example), but you don't need to express the same negative feelings in every topic on every page. That is what @Permo is referring to.

Ah okay, I misinterpreted slightly - my bad. Meanwhile it is a bit confusing, while opinions were shared previously in other topics - those triggered the idea to create a dedicated topic (rightfully), - this brings by nature of course the appearance of the same opinions again in the dedicated topic. In this point of view i don't mind to have duplications, but of course if same people put the same comment in every topic, than it is a different.... eeeeerrrr.... topic. Sorry for being off topi... 

[Jim]

Just now, agrof said:

Sorry for being off topi... 

Since this is a topic about Opinions, I think we can slightly touch this subject here  

[Permo]

Jim's right, I don't mind people having a different opinion at all, and everybody should be free to express theirs.... but really, some people....

Maybe it's them who should take a break and not me,... hmmmm ?

[SNIPE]

Here are the facts:

old lego was better than it actually was because everything is better as a kid. They had good functions but lego exausted what was possible with studded parts. so they made studless parts (though some old parts are indeed studless). now we have more advanced axles, axle-pins, connectors, and mechanical elememts. I'm 'good' at technic design and advanced techniques but  I always hit a rock when making or designing MOCs. So for lego to design all these technic sets in such a short period of time is quite good. I honestly don't know how they do it (genuinley).  Old parts are prone to cracking too

Edited June 19, 2018 by SNIPE

[aol000xw]

Old Lego is still better for me today in some ways. While studless is way superior 8860 makes me enjoy the most in it's simplicity. Everything there is a function. 

I've been pondering for a while the concept of Lego as a "monopoly". Technic (and Lego for the most part) is just a set of specifications for interconnects. And for those patents where due long ago. So good times for third parties delivering high quality components and I hope that will put some pressure on TLG.

While purists will find it outrageous, Technic is a tool for me, and I find myself more and more eyeing the 3D-print and third-party market. Specialized parts even metal ones, or low friction metal bearings become very attractive when you want to mix functions and performance.

While I don't expect TLG to go that far I have a hard time understanding their slow reactions to things like Bluetooth controllers, or lighting in models. I wish they were willing to take more risks, For example GBC is a big thing in Lego and they have nothing to show for it.

[knotian]

I like to build industrial themes. Buildings with operating functions like a blast furnace and skip hoist. When I am designing I think Lego, not technic or studded. My only 'complaint' is a lack of transitional pieces to allow usage of both old and newer( technic) elements. I can do what I need to do but find myself using a large number of offset and regular plates to match up heights.

All in all the ability to use ALL the Lego pieces available is the best bet.

I like the larger Technic sets and usually buy two, one for a gift and one for parts

[Vectormatic]

Ive been back in technic since 42000, before that all my technic was studfull, with the latest sets including a panel here and there (the old school ones with holes for ribbed hoses)

I absolutely think studless is superior for technic, models are sleeker, sturdier and more elegant.

But lego has also dropped some serious balls here and there, leading to frustration. Going to studless, lego went to odd-wide designs, and in the same move also redesigned some parts like diffs, driving rings for gearboxes... But they missed out the engine parts, meaning you cant make a new style motorcyle with a transverse engine without running into asymmetric engine placement (or weird tricks like the split v4 in 42036), or just the length of that darn crank-piece pin, at 1.5 studs with only 1 stud wide engine braces, you ALWAYS end up with that half stud being in the way.

As for sets, ive only been back in technic for 3-4 years, but i feel like set design is moving in a direction i dont really like. sets in general are getting higher and higher parts counts, with associated pricetags, for the same functions. 42077 is a prima example of this, being basically 42037 in a rally-jacket for twice the price, while previous race-cars in the same pricerange (42000 and 42039) featured extra features, pushrod suspension, linear actuactors, a small gearbox to drive those functions. Then there is the design part of it all, some sets just dont look like the real world machines they try to emulate, 42066 with no elevators and just plain (har har) stubby wings compared to the rudders comes to mind. technic aircraft generally look like the general shape would fly, but here we have a feature-light PF-vessel with a serious pricetag, that looks waaay off.

And then there are the flagships, ever increasing in part count and size, to the point where we get a €300+ crane, which i wouldnt know where to put in my house if i ever got one. Now i know i can only blame myself for missing out on 42042, but only having a 3000+ piece monster as a replacement option just puts me off.

 

Instead ive gotten more interested in the smaller sets. 42075 is probably my favorite set this year. The build was fun, it packs more features (although the suspension is less sophisticated) then 42077 and makes for a good base for mods (i modded mine into a pickup truck), for less then half the price. similarly, motorcycles have caught my interest, they generally make for cool builds with decent (and playable) features for the size, with a low barrier to entry.

 

TL;DR: i love studless technic, but i am getting a tad frustrated by the ever increasing part counts/price of the bigger sets, while functions/features seem to be a secondary concern.

[agrof]

@Jim It seems to me, that we start to get some similar opinions in each fields, which could be groupped. Would be an idea to make a poll to see where is the bottom line in which percentage of this discussion (topic)? Maybe there could be only statements to choose (multiple choice) to see, which are the most important ones. 

It would be interesting to see how the community is built-up preference wise, where are the weights of the general interest of AFOLs. Some kind of market mapping.

Edited June 19, 2018 by agrof
re thought

[teflon]

My 2 cents:

I've been slowly drifting away from Lego and Technic. I haven't bought a set for a year or so and I have unfinished creations on my desk with slim chance of actually finishing them. I am not totally out, since I am still very much active with FLL. Nevertheless I've witnessed Technic sets to become quite large and even more expensive. But I think this is our fault. I remember the polls that shows that we (technic nerds) were dying for large USC-kind of sets and willing to pay. And Lego delivered.

I therefore think that Technic theme is stronger than ever. Of course some romanticism is gone - a lot of people is now selling their plans, but some people still offer their ideas for free. I just hope all of this will continue in the future.

[Maaboo the Witch]

19 minutes ago, teflon said:

Nevertheless I've witnessed Technic sets to become quite large and even more expensive. But I think this is our fault. I remember the polls that shows that we (technic nerds) were dying for large USC-kind of sets and willing to pay. And Lego delivered.

There are still plenty of small (and rather marvellous) sets for those who want them. Plus, does TLG really cater that much to the AFOL market? Not sure if we actually fit into their business plan in any hugely significant way. TLG will do what makes sense to their marketing and development sectors, never mind a few polls.

[Erik Leppen]

3 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Plus, does TLG really cater that much to the AFOL market?

I can remember a interview Jim or Sariel had with Technic designers, and one of the questions I sent in and that was asked, was: what made a 4000-part set like the BWE possible, and if I remember correctly, in the interview the designers said: "well, basically, you guys!". Meaning us, AFOLs. So we do have influence. Even if it's only that one set, it's still quite something.

[Maaboo the Witch]

7 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

I can remember a interview Jim or Sariel had with Technic designers, and one of the questions I sent in and that was asked, was: what made a 4000-part set like the BWE possible, and if I remember correctly, in the interview the designers said: "well, basically, you guys!". Meaning us, AFOLs. So we do have influence. Even if it's only that one set, it's still quite something.

That's very true. Plus, now that I think about it, Milan Reindl did mention that people had been asking for a garbage truck for some time while talking about 42078 (I think I was actually one of those voices way back when ) and that the Technic team now had the opportunity to build one! Suppose that is people power in action. I just meant that TLG probably doesn't take our views and desires into account every day of the week. @I_Igor still doesn't have his small tractor tyres... or maybe they're in development now! One can rarely tell. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Maaboo35

[Bublehead]

I think we provide the voice of the AFOLs in the Technic community, but they (the TLG designers) have a very limited way of allowing those voices to be influential. They made the sets bigger (a nod to us) but that required appealing to a larger fan base to make it potentially profitable, so we get a Bugatti Chiron that appeals to a bigger market (auto enthusiasts) that normally would not drop $350 on a non licensed piece of intellectual property but would drop it to “own” a Chiron,  the only way an average person will ever get to own one. Yes it has flaws that the AFOLs think are rookie mistakes, but they may have had to live with it in order to keep the cost in line with the market. Who knows what other unseen market forces drive the decisions on the sets they release. And who knows what actually green lights a particular design over another. These are the known “unkownables” that we try and pry out of TLG every time we get a chance. After 40+ years at this hobby, I can testify that TLG has never answered these unknowables to any level of satisfaction, and they continue to be the enigma machine we are all trying to decode.

[teflon]

9 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

There are still plenty of small (and rather marvellous) sets for those who want them. Plus, does TLG really cater that much to the AFOL market? Not sure if we actually fit into their business plan in any hugely significant way. TLG will do what makes sense to their marketing and development sectors, never mind a few polls.

I agree with you. 42076 looks quite ineteresting to me. But ... buying small (an marvellous) sets is not the way to solve a middle-age crisis. The prices of more expensive Lego sets are close enough to the prices of used sports cars and from my experience you get quite more attention with (even old) sports car. Not that I own one.

[Jim]

10 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

I can remember a interview Jim or Sariel had with Technic designers, and one of the questions I sent in and that was asked, was: what made a 4000-part set like the BWE possible, and if I remember correctly, in the interview the designers said: "well, basically, you guys!". Meaning us, AFOLs. So we do have influence. Even if it's only that one set, it's still quite something.

We definitely influence TLG, but some of us don't see that. We asked for big UCS sets, we got big UCS sets. We asked for other colors than blue, red and yellow, and we got them. We asked for new parts, and we got them. We asked for other models then simply cranes, and we got them.
But somehow, it's never okay for the AFOL. We complain about the odd 42076 Hovercraft, but we asked for stuff like this. We complain about sets getting bigger, but we asked for this. We complaine about panels covering the model, not we complain about holes in the model. Need I continue?

I am sure if TLG starts producing sets with tons of functions, but without bodywork, we will complain about the model not being finished. My point being; we always complain and it's never good enough.

We also need to keep in mind that TLG designers crank out a line of sets each year. They simply don't have the freedom or the time to come up with solutions we think of. Think of it as writing an essay. It's quite hard and time consuming to write one. But when you read one, it's quite easy to be critical and pinpoint where it could have been done better. As AFOLs we come up with better solutions (or so we think), be we forget that it took a lot of time to design the original vehicle. It's a lot easier to improve an existing model than build something from scratch.

I can tell from the bottom of my heart that I absolutely LOVE Technic and the changes/improvements which have been made over the years. I see cool things in almost every set, whether it's a nice building technique, a cool new part, or whatever. Yes, I think the color scheme on the Forest Harvester is horrible. But it has cool new Pneumatic parts and small panels in Lime Green. Change the chassis of the vehicle to black or DBG and you have a cool Forest Harvester. Like someone mentioned earlier, LEGO is not about building stuff and displaying it. Well, maybe the Chiron and the Porsche are display models. But Technic sets are parts packs to build stuff with.

Which other toy company listens to their customers like TLG does? I know the answer to that question. Which other company gets fans from fan media to their office and let them discuss things with employees and executives? I also know the answer to that question. Which other toy company provides support to over 200 online and offline communities? Again, I know the answer.

TL;DR It's easy to criticize, but it's better to give it more thought before doing so. 

10 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

Plus, does TLG really cater that much to the AFOL market? Not sure if we actually fit into their business plan in any hugely significant way. 

The way I see it, is that TLG is striking a balance between catering the general audience (kids, mostly), while giving the AFOL community what they want (new parts, parts in new colors, etc). The models need to be appealing enough to put on the shelves and the parts (or sets) should be interesting enough for AFOLs to get them. Two birds with one stone.

Another thing we discussed; "Who will buy expensive sets like the Porsche"? Well, probably millions of people. I stated in the Bugatti topic that the Porsche is the only Technic set in the Top-10 sets of 2017. Most likely this is not in sales numbers but in revenue, but it still says enough. Sets like the Porsche and Bugatti sell....period. While we tend to shout that we like the Rough Terrain Crane better, but it's just not as popular as "UCS Technic display sets". So, as a company, which sets would you bring to market? Again, I know the answer to that question 

[Jim]

16 hours ago, agrof said:

@Jim It seems to me, that we start to get some similar opinions in each fields, which could be groupped. Would be an idea to make a poll to see where is the bottom line in which percentage of this discussion (topic)? Maybe there could be only statements to choose (multiple choice) to see, which are the most important ones. 

It would be interesting to see how the community is built-up preference wise, where are the weights of the general interest of AFOLs. Some kind of market mapping.

We could do a survey like this.

[Bublehead]

 @Jim 

Do you think they (TLG) pick and choose what they do to so that it meets both the requirements, kids and AFOLS? So a bigger set but one that appeals to kids? More colors, but ones that test well with kids, etc...?

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Bublehead

[andythenorth]

25 minutes ago, Jim said:

My point being; we always complain and it's never good enough.

Not so much 'we' as there's always the ones with the axe to grind innit?  And if they're challenged, then they retort that everyone else are uncritical sheep, allowing TLG to walk off the cliff of quality.  The internet: clearly the future, right? 

At least when @allanp kept going on about pneumatics vs. LAs, he didn't throw his toys out of the pram when he was asked to shush. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by andythenorth