Doug72

[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

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Posted (edited)

Nice build & instructions and thanks for the free instructions.

I will add a link this to the GBC Train Forum Index later.

I like your train reverser unit which seems easier to build and note the double 24T gears for the 8T train gears to engage with which gives a stronger connection to drive the module and saves damaging 8T gears when under heavy load.

I note that the trip rotor has only 2 lobes but constructed as per Akiyuki version with 4 arms but only 2 rollers.

I use a simpler & stronger trip rotor with 2 arms, see image.

51231584779_a1a1be27a1.jpgIMG_8208

@HRU_Bricks said:- This is a really great concept. I think I'll do something like this with the new Mindstorms unit.

Thanks for the comment, it has taken me many attempts to get this working reliable but satisfied with it now.

Using EV3 you can precisely set the movements.

It proved impossible to use mechanical solutions due to dwell as module reverses.

I have no idea how to make instructions so when you build it if you need any advice or photos please ask.

The lift unit is the most complex part of the module. 

The extra 4L gear racks on the entry tack just before the reverser module helps push the train car fully into place.

Once the train docks the train motor stops until ball box is back on the train.

 

Edited by Doug72

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1 hour ago, Doug72 said:

I use a simpler & stronger trip rotor with 2 arms, see image.

51231584779_a1a1be27a1.jpgIMG_8208

 

I Like this mod and will defiantly give it a go on my next switching unit (the loader side). It is much more efficient to build and simpler (plus I get to put the "L" half beams back into my loose parts :-) ) 

Doubling the 24T made a big difference as it applies the torque evenly and stops one side lifting and ultimately the "chattering" gears. Removing the Technic Beams and replacing it with the tiles and ramps also helps reduce the friction of the cart in and out of the module. 

As for the loading unit you made as I go through it I'll ask if I need and additional photos. Your really good at documenting what you have done so I think it won't be too many questions :-). The Train Cart stopping and reversing was going to be one of them but your explanation and photos makes a lot of sense. 

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Posted (edited)

Re trip rotor:- Saves 3 x 3 L thin beams as I found they tended to crack at the axle holes after a lot of use.

The cam that stops the train motor as it docks can be tricky to set up for working with train cart in both orientations.

Edited by Doug72

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4 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Re trip rotor:- Saves 3 x 3 L thin beams as I found they tended to crack at the axle holes after a lot of use.

The cam that stops the train motor as it docks can be tricky to set up for working with train cart in both orientations.

I've changed out my switching units and updated the instructions. Your Mod not only works well it looks better too!

 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, HRU_Bricks said:

I've changed out my switching units and updated the instructions. Your Mod not only works well it looks better too!

 

Great - thanks for your comment.
Only time you really need a  four arm trip rotor is when using it as a Vee module  to change over the track switch.

With a single trip arm you can double the time before train is released.

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

Now built your improved version of the Train Reverser module.

Instructions were easy to follow up to page 38 / 39 / 40 which are all identical and had me baffled for awhile. Pages 41 to 63 all OK.

Testing:- without rubber bands in place and train reversed by hand. Train arriving & departing OK and is much smoother.

Testing with rubber bands in place on reverser: Trains would not depart, tried with all my train carts with same result.

Had me puzzled for a while then came the eureka moment.


Your version is Right Handed whereas the Akiyuki version is Left handed.

Solution changed the small black pole reverser switch to other position on the PF switch and now reverser working correctly.

Therefore all the train reverser in a set up have to be either RH or LH.

As I have several LH reverser modules I will adapt your build to make it LH.

51233523761_4c0813f3d5_z.jpgIMG_8209 

Edited by Doug72

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@doug72 thanks for the feedback.

I see what you mean about the pages, they are from  changing the trip motor to your version and not deleting the steps.

I didn't even know there was a left and right side, I just built :-).

 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, HRU_Bricks said:

@doug72 thanks for the feedback.

I see what you mean about the pages, they are from  changing the trip motor to your version and not deleting the steps.j

I didn't even know there was a left and right side, I just built :-).

 

If the PF switch has the small pole reverser switch it is an easy fix.

If a PF switch without the pole switch is used then only way to make the train work correctly to move the train side beam would have to done by changing the final bevel gear on both axles to the opposite side

I managed to buy two of the old type PF switch with pole reverser recently for spares.

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

Now built a Left Hand version of the @HRU_Bricks Train Reverser module.

It was relatively easy to do the conversion.

Main change was to position the trip rotor section to line up with the middle of the trip beam on the train car.

The gear ratchet lever to assist train departing is in the same position as on the Akiyuki version.

Each 24T gear has an output (Red 2L axle connector) to drive to other modules

51239053157_39e93e8e51_z.jpgIMG_8212

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

GBC Train Swing Loader - Update

The module was found to be running too slow to be GBC compliant.

The video shows the coding for EV3 operation is set at 75% for Motor A which is too slow to reach the 1 ball per second.

EV3 coding adjusted so that Motor A now runs at 100% speed.

Dwell time for loading balls reduced from 6 secs to 2secs.

Input Box is able to hold 33 balls and can empty into the train ball carrier during the shorten dwell time.

Freshly recharged batteries put into EV3 hub and module tested.

From Train docking to undocking is 58 seconds and now  more than meets GBC standards of one ball per sec.

New video to be made and will be posted later.

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

Train GBC Swing Loader (WIP) Improved trip cycle time.

Trip times hard to consistently achieve as train car batteries run down.

As the EV3 drive motor A was set at 100% I could not increase this to reduce the loading cycle time to meet the 1 ball per sec. GBC requirement.

So a mechanical solution was required. This was fairly easy without a major re-build.

The drive unit to the swinging arms had a gear reduction of 3:1 to turn the worm gears that turned the two turntables that swing the arms.

Original drive 3:1 using two 24T clutch gears driven by an 8T gear.
Clutch gears possible slipping.

51327187977_c0763c1e9d.jpgIMG_8244

New drive: 1.66 : 1 using two 20T double bevel gears driven by a a single 12T double bevel gear.

51328641804_d8d675622a_z.jpgIMG_8243

This meant the EV3 program had to be revised.

51328298513_a82783820d.jpg

Ball input box can hold & empty 33 balls and Overall trip cycle time now well below 60 seconds.

 

Edited by Doug72
Code program corrected.

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Posted (edited)

Fast Swing Loader for GBC Train System Completed.

Now speeded up and trip cycle time is 46 secs with 33 balls. and EV3 program for Motor A set at 100%

Other speeds are possible by changing the 3 gears that drive the the two turntables & Swing Arms.

51332887772_6112345b3b.jpgIMG_8251

EV3 Motor A speed to alter to obtain desired trip time.

Some small adjustments made to input box to ensure all balls roll into the train hopper.

 

Short Video showing trip time of 46 secs between train arriving & departing.

 

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

Train GBC Swing Loader Update.

Whilst showing the video to a friend he remarked that the video seemed a little bit shaky.

On checking found the video was OK and that it was the swing arms that were shaking slightly as they swung up & over.

I initially put this down to the use of knob gears for the right angle drive which is know to cause uneven rotation.

Also noted there was a broken half bush on one of the worm gears.

51366037957_1ccbf3a5b9_z.jpgIMG-2021 

In order to fit a new half bush I decided to also replace the knob gears with 12T double bevel gears.

51366821801_e120c21493_z.jpgIMG_8300 

Tested but some slight shaking still exists, probably caused by stiction in the two turntables.

Edited by Doug72

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Posted (edited)

GBC Train Reverser (Mod)

A simple mod to prevent gear chatter when under heavy load.

Two extra 2 x 4 beams added to prevent the train car rocking to keep the train car 8T gears in contact better with the both 24T gears.

51400842467_232e085c32_z.jpgIMG_8303

Edited by Doug72

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GBC Train Reverser (MOD) (WIP)

I required a train reverser to drive a Z60 turntable for 2 revolutions before the train reverser releases the train car.

There are two ways to do this :-
1/. Speed up the drive to the Z60 turntable by x 2.
2/. Modify the drive to the reverser so it syncs with the turntable after 2 revs.

Problem,

Option 1 :- not enough power to turn the T/T and the train reverser which makes train car skip & chatter.

Option 2 :- direct drive to t/t and alter reverser gearing to trip the train once the t/t has completed two revolutions.

After very many attempts & days to achieve this I have finally come up with a solution. to get the correct gear ratios required.

Gear train is 3:1 (24/3) x 2;1 (12/24) x (1:1)

See photos:

The final 1:1 was the hardest to obtain due to the two axles were offset by 2L vertically & 3L horizontally.

Solution:- Use a black 20T double bevel gear engaging with a tan single bevel gear offset by 1/2 Bush so gears engaged on their edges.

Unconventional but smoothly rotates the trip rotor.

Tested and Z60 turntable & train reverser are synchronised OK.

 

51421631193_63ffee5465_z.jpgIMG_8307

 

51446342755_0a64e1f90c_z.jpgIMG_8308

 

51422362160_a6e6e3c01b_z.jpgIMG_8309 

Comments welcomed.

Edited by Doug72
Drive path added to gearing view.

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Previous reverser mod was 3:1 x 2:1 x 20:1 = 120 and had a weak drive using a thin z20 gear.

Now modified a second train reverser to achieve the same requirement of rotating a Z60 turntable two full turns  (2 X 60 =120) but this time using a 40T spur gear for the reverser trip rotor with a single trip arm.

Gear ratio required using a 40T gear is 3:1 x 40:1 = 120

Gear arrangement now more compact and stronger & less likely for gears to skip.

Timing is adjusted by removing the white 24T gear and rotating the position of the Z60 Turntable.

51473044203_6eccc04880.jpg

51472031252_819724d7e7.jpg

51473517739_536f37e91f.jpg

51473044028_c802348021.jpg

What this is used for will be revealed at a later date maybe ?

Edited by Doug72

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Train GBC New Corner Module. (MOC) (VIDEO)

I set out to design and build a new GBC module for use on display layout at a 90 deg. corner and to be able to transfer up to 36 balls all powered by the GBC Train car.

The module consists of 4 sub assemblies on a 32 x 32 stud base plate.

51499568013_3df219c5ec.jpgIMG_8334 

 

51498548147_fde365e10f.jpgIMG_8340 r

1:- Input box to GBC guide rules for entry height 10L, width 8L

Length is 16L with the ramp split into two sections.

Upper half is static, lower half when tripped rotates to allow the first batch of balls to roll under a static ball retaining axle onto the lift tray..
Other balls in the in-box are prevented from moving until the rotating ramp returns to closed position
when remaining balls roll down for the next lift cycle.

2/ Lift Tower with ball carrying platform for 18 balls.

The drive for this does not require a reverser, instead a Z60 turntable is used which turns a crank arm and a connecting beam to the raise & lower the lift ball tray. This is an enlarged version of the Sun GBC lift tray.
This took a long time to get the position of the turntable & length of the cranks & connecting beam correct. (a lot of trial & error solved it)

The worm gear driving the Z60 turntable tended to skip so a very strong support for the worm axle & the turntable were needed (see photo)
As the lift reaches full height the lift tray sides hit a stop to open the gate to drop balls onto the discharge chute.

51499342761_e7aa60181c.jpgIMG_8338

 

51499342851_b45d9d90af.jpgIMG_8337

 

3/ Discharge chute:-

This is 16L long and with side guides to ensure all balls roll into the GBC Train hopper. This is mounted above the inbox.

51500271690_1bca50a120.jpgIMG_8335 

 

4/. Train Reverser the most complicated part of this build.

A standard reverser was modified to allow module to run for two trip cycles and load up-to 36 balls into the train hopper.

See how this was achieved in the proceeding post using a 40T spur gear & worm ( 40 x 3 = 120 giving 2 rotations of the Z60 turntable

Trip Cycle:-

Balls arrive into the inbox, train car arrives and module is activated.
Lift descends hits a trip bar causing the lower rotating inbox ramp to load 18 balls onto the lift tray

Lift rises to discharge balls onto the loading chute.
Lift descends to repeat  the cycle and load the second batch of 18 balls.

Once two loads are completed, the reverser then releases the loaded train.

Video

 

Edited by Doug72

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12 minutes ago, HRU_Bricks said:

@Doug72

Interesting concept. 

FYI the link goes to a private video and it doesn't play.

Thanks for that , Video now embeded & working I hope 

 

Edited by Doug72

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The video definitely adds to your explanations.

The mechanism is a lot smoother than I thought it would be and could be used as a lift in a different module. 

Can you post a few more images of the detail and I'll work on a studio file for it

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@HRU_Bricks   Lift Images as requested.

Thanks for your comments, Lift has been extensively run without any failures.

The Z60 turntable at top has to be well braced to stop support structure from spreading under load.

Any queries please quote image number.

 

51503321925_ae0545830d_z.jpgIMG_8346

 

51502393126_1fa59d4b23_z.jpgIMG_8348 

 

51502619528_2564539acd_z.jpgIMG_8347 

 

51503321840_52934082ed_z.jpgIMG_8350 

 

51503321805_27949b7c99_z.jpgIMG_8351

 

51502619683_09554e64ac_z.jpgIMG_8352

 

51503321615_fcbf9cf834_z.jpgIMG_8353 

 

51502619628_659f844887_z.jpgIMG_8354 

 

51503110869_6a98c7de4e_z.jpgIMG_8355 

 

51503110839_a991833ce6_z.jpgIMG_8356

Edited by Doug72

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42 minutes ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Thanks @Doug72

HAve you tried to increase the volume of the lifter so it only needs to do one cycle?

For initial build tried using a normal reverser & doubling up the speed to the lift to get 2 cycles  but found too much strain to lift 15 balls in one go once the trip rotor starts to tension the rubber bands..

Train car starts to chattter and skip. - hence building a 2 cycle trip reverser to load two batches.

See my topic on the modified reversers, type 1 with 20t Gear  & type 2 using a 40T rotor gear.

If an opposite hand worm gear was avalable it would have been simpler to arrange drive to the trip rotor.

So far useing offset 20T DB bevel gears for trip rotor has been no problem. Type 2 version stronger

Type 1 with 20T DBG / 20T SBG used in the video. Type2 using two offset 20TDBG.

Edited by Doug72

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@HRU_Bricks increasing ball load for one lift cycle. The most I could get per cycle is 18 balls.

Have a look at my earlier High Capacity Loader which can load and carry upto 30 balls per trip.

Video show lift with improvements & in action.

Shacky video due bad wrist !!

 

Edited by Doug72

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Update:- Ball Capacity. Train GBC Lift
Just done some trials with the number of balls that can be loaded by adding an extra 3 balls per test until it reach 30 balls.

Works OK with an L motor train car and OK but slower with an M motor train car with no signs of skipping gears.

An enlarged carrying tray for 30 balls would be needed.

Edited by Doug72
Updated 10th March 2019

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