Doug72

[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

Recommended Posts

High Lift Stepper unit for loading Type 2 GBC Train cars. With Video. (Mark 1)

For a long time I have been looking for a stepper mechanism with enough height to load balls directly into a Type 2 Train car hopper, without success.
So I set out to design & build my own version.

Initial thoughts were to use a rope & pulley system that I have used for previous GBC modules but it could not handle the lift travel required and failed with a spectacular disintegration of parts when it jammed.

Decided to use a rack & pinion to raise & lower the ball carrier using two LEGO Gear Rack 14 x 2 with Groove and Connectors (18942 / 60578) placed end to end with beams each side for a strong construction. The rack is 28L long with max 26L of travel more than enough.

Gear Rack
50318486268_e9446365e7.jpg

 

Video - a bit shaky due to a bad wrist !!

A 12T bevel gear engages with the rack and is driven by 24:1 gear box.

Tested with an M motor directly coupled to the worm gearbox and proved strong enough to lift 30 balls per lift cycle.
The gearbox will be driven by a reversing unit at lower level.

Next step was to find a way to reverse the motion at top & bottom of travel.
I needed almost instant change over - this is achieved by trip arms at top & bottom positions which flip the change over lever to the other direction.
All linkage & trip arms use friction less pins.

Took a lot of trial & error to get the stops on the push rod for adjusted to achieve this. Tested using an M motor and worked OK.

Next step was to run the lift from a GBC train unit while sitting on the reverser.
The output from the train was too slow so step up gears added using a 20:12 double bevel gears.

Lift speed OK with 30 balls per trip cycle takes approx 52 secs

WIP
Input loading hopper to build with balls entering as lift at lower position and prevent balls hanging up in the ball carrier when discharging.
Last step is to syncronise the train reverser to the lift cycle, as soon as train departs the lift will stop and restart as next train arrives.

Overhead view
50319332112_de37780726_z.jpg

Trip mechanism and Reversing unit
50319153321_ba4b47c75c_z.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Doug72
Updated Mark 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Doug72 said:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Doug72
Deleted duplicate posting due iPad glitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Compact 56:1 gearing for GBC Train Reverser. (How to align a 2L worm gear with a 28T gear)

For a new GBC Train module I am currently building, I required a 56:1 ratio to operate the module with a train reverser in Sync.

To do this required a 56:1 gear ratio for the train reverser.

A Z56 turntable too large to install so a 28T gear used with  1:2 gears to achieve the 56:1 required.
i.e 28:1 x 1:2 = 28 x 2 = 56:1

This meant making a bespoke train reverser as seen in the images.

Gear train:
16T / 16T / 12T / 24T / 2L worm / 28T gear - the trip rotor has a single lobe.

Alignment achieved between 28T gear and the 2L worm gear by means of a 3/4 pin as shown in the last image.

Tested and functions as desired.

Overhead view:
50371558367_01627bf5d3_z.jpg

Timing adjustment:
50370695968_13458ff635_z.jpg

Close up of 28t gear & worm gear:
50371399976_e85dffdfd1_z.jpg

Parts required to get correct alignment beteen 28T gear and 2L worm gear.
50371559072_3190867b26_z.jpg


 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improved High Lift Stepper unit for loading Type 2 GBC Train cars. (Completed)  (New Video)

Rack lift system abandoned.

So thinking cap on and I have come up with a simpler method to raise & lower the ball carrier without the any need for a reversing unit for the lift Module..
i.e the drive from the train unit always rotates the lift mechanism in one direction.

Improved Mark 3 Version
Success at last in getting a reliable up & down movement of the ball carrier.
A complete rebuild was made by replacing the gear rack with two Z56 turntables, with crank arms & connecting rods to raise & lower the ball carrier without needing a reverser unit.
This also allowed synchronisation of the train reverser.

See earlier post on how the train reverser was modified.

Drive from the train unit is via a series of 1:1 right angle gears with 2L worm gears to rotate each turntable.
Drive to the worm gears is by long axles with uni-couplings each end.

Now proved OK for discharging balls into the train hopper.
Ball carrier enlarged to accommodate 30 balls per lift cycle which takes approx 30 seconds per lift
Input hopper fitted with a lifting gate to control ball loading at the lower level.

New Video

 

50382054411_b2487951b6_z.jpg

 

View showing drive to the turntables and the ball loading gate mechanism.

50382054361_ea08e6a02e_z.jpg

 

50382231982_20105c617e_z.jpg

 

Input ball loader hopper

50382232057_4c8f53e651_z.jpg

 

Top works - with two Z56 turntables showing worm gear drive.

50382232097_8ff0d5ed39_z.jpg

 

Train Reverser with 56:1 ratio with a single trip lobe.

50382232172_1f7606d3f0_z.jpg

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Final Update.
As I was running short of Z56 turntables and have plenty of Z60 T/T
I have decided to use them instead - along with 1L worm gear in a vertical configeration. ( see image)

This also allows for a much simpler train reverser with 60:1 ratio. ( 8/24 ) & ( worm/20 ) . 3 x 20 =60.

Ball input box improved. Tested and improved running.

50393809096_f9c0491012_z.jpg

50393980652_cf9207d25d_z.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Standard GBC In Box modified to suit Train GBC

The standard 10L x 10L x 10L inbox is not always suitable for GBC Train modules in order to achieve a throughput of 1 ball per second or 30 balls per minute.
Each train car can easily carry 30 ball batches but standard inbox too small to allow this.

I have adopted my own standard version based on using a 8 x 16 tile sloping down from 10L to 7L to ensure balls roll freely.
The overall dimensions are 10L wide x 16L long x 10L high at input and 7L at the lower end.

Ball release is by a lifting gate activated by the module, which can be arranged to release 30 balls or 15 balls at a time.

Ver 1:-  success, works OK with its train module as seen in previous posting.
30 balls per cycle with a simple lever & gear system to raise the gate. Works as intended but excess balls in input bin can swamp the module.

50505342302_d1829b9aef.jpg

Ver 2 :- Failed
To release only 15 balls was a bit harder to achieve.
As well as a lifting gate to release balls to the module a second gate is required to lower to prevent more than 15 balls entering.

Multiple linkages and gears required to achieve this but failed as the 2nd gate jams on top of the balls preventing movement, tried several other methods to push excess balls apart and lower the gate without success.

50504467663_0b135fe101.jpg

Ver 3 :- Success
Balls limited to 15 per cycle and at same time hold back any further excess balls from releasing and only requires  a trip bar without any need for gears.

This method also provides a buffer for further incoming balls.

The 8 x 16 tile plate was replaced with a two part slope with a static cross bar stopping balls from moving until trip bar is pushed down.
The ramp upper half ( Red 8 x 8 ) is fixed and the  lower half of the ramp ( Black 8 x 8) is arranged to rock slightly, allowing 15 balls to pass under the fixed beam to the module and at same blocking any more balls from moving.
As the batch of 15 balls are released and the module raises them to discharge point the next batch of more balls roll down ready for the next loading cycle.

 

               50505180726_fdcdece5d9_m.jpg              50505342267_b15f3af350_m.jpg                        
 

50504467583_1aecc9a8e2_m.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improved rise,tilt & roll module for Train GBC Loading.

See earlier post on page 35 of the Train BGC forum. Previous transfer capacity was only 9 balls per trip cycle.

Capacity now increased to 15 balls per lift cycle, with a new design for the input box.

50582256158_8a7815be3c_c.jpg

To do this the collection area on the lifting ramp was enlarged to hold 15 balls.

New design of input box made.
This transfers 15  balls to the lift and tilt chute and at the same time it prevents any further balls from moving until next cycle.
The input box is 10L high at input and the box ramp is spilt  into two sections and can hold 30 balls.

A fixed bar prevents any balls from moving until the lower half of the ramp is tillted as the chute decends to the loading postion.
15 balls roll out under the stop bar and down a short ramp onto the lifting chute.

Excess balls are prevented from rolling down until the chute rises when the tilting section in box to rotates back to release next batch of balls down the stop bar.

To allow for the increased ball capacity & weight the gearing was changed from 16/16 (1:1) to 12 / 20 (1:1.6). With an L motor train car trip cycle time is OK.

The train reverser could be removed and an L motor used instead to drive the module as a stand alone or as part of a GBC loop.

For purpose of the video the train car trip was disabled.

When train car departs the lift stops moving so no syncronision is required.

The video shows how this works.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inclined GBC Ball Lift  (MOC)  (WIP)

The objective: Build a simple reliable Ball lift for loading a GBC train Car.

I had one spare LEGO Excavator Bucket 8 x 10 (2951), so I set out to use this as the starting point for a new GBC module, to be used for loading and powered by a GBC Train car.
N.B. Could also be easy to adapted for a stand alone GBC module driven by a PF motor.

Step 1:- Determine how many balls the bucket can safely carry.

  1. 15 GBC Balls can be carried - so two trips required to load 30 balls into train hopper.


50608411568_d990a56da8.jpg

 

Step 2:- Work out the locations for ball loading and discharge.
A simple test rig was made for this using large track links with the single bucket attached.
The test rig used medium size sprocket wheels, the final version will use the new large sprocket wheels when I receive them.

Loading position:
50609156461_043f8b511c.jpg

 

Discharge position into Train car,
50609271972_a69daaef0c.jpg

Step 3:- Next find a way how to drive the chain belt without using a reverser unit ?

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Step 3:-
How to drive the inclined ball lift without using a reverser unit ?

The bucket lift needs to be driven using the lower axle as shown in photo. (20T Bevel gear shown only for hand testing.)

This axle needs to rotate approx 1 full turn to raise the bucket to unload & then one full turn in the other direction to lower bucket back to loading point

Initial thoughts was to use Lego gear rack with housing using:-
LEGO Housing 2 x 15 x 3 for Gear Rack (18940) & LEGO Gear Rack 14 x 2 with Groove and Connectors (18942 / 60578)

Test rig built but proved not usable as the rack travel is too short and could not use a 20T bevel gear.
Only gear that meshed was a 12T bevel gear, which would have meant a much longer gear rack to achieve the require travel of the lift.

So a bespoke gear rack system built and after several attempts I was finally happy with this sub build.

50616865647_3e30a3b3c1_z.jpg

The gear rack is driven by a 2L worm gear and 24T gear with 5L crank arms, with 11L con rods connecting to the gear rack which is 16L long and has two 20T bevel gear engaging with it.

One gear drives the inclined lift, the other is to keep the gear rack in place as it moves back & fro.
Output axle rotates approx. 360 degs. to raise the bucket and then 360 degs. the other way to lower it again.
This drive system runs very smoothly.

For testing an M motor was used, final build will be driven by a GBC Train Revereser.

Step 4:-  Connect Rack unit to inclne lift and and test.
On hold until the extra large sprocket wheels on order arrive !!

Any questions / comments please ask.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/9/2020 at 11:19 AM, Doug72 said:

New design of input box made. - Construction of tilting ramp.

Parts required.

50597517181_d7af4b4098.jpg

Top View

50616595653_a6cdeeaf5c.jpg

Underside view

50616594618_6281ce50f0.jpg

View of curved end.
50617330236_5594f0194b.jpg

Video

 

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New MOC - Inclined GBC Ball Lift (WIP) Update

Step 4:-  Connect Rack unit to inclined lift and and test.

Two new extra large sprocket wheels received today & fitted to the test rig.

The rack system has been modified to prevent one end of the rack lifting slightly at one end of the stroke.
Full length slide with with guides each side now used.

Next set the track belt with bucket to move between loading point and dumping balls into the train car.

Rack crank arms used 5L on the LEGO Beam 3 x 5 x 0.5 Bent 90 Quarter Ellipse but travel was not enough so the axle holes at each end of the curved side used which are approx 5.25 L apart thus giving a 10.5 L stroke for the rack. Loading & dumping positions now OK.

End of travel for unloading had to be set by adjusting the position of the black 20T bevel gear on the rack relative to the drive axle which allows for adjustments to be made in 90 deg steps.

50623935138_89d2e17082_z.jpg

50624679281_84f4c1c09d_z.jpg

50624780597_22424d6eed_z.jpg

 

Step 5 - Use Train Reverser to drive the gear rack & synchronise with the loader.
This will be the hardest task to achieve -  as a standard train reverser would only allow one  trip with15 balls to be loaded before releasing the train car.
Two trips required to fully dump 30 balls into train car hopper, but how ?

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Step 5 - Use Train Reverser to drive the gear rack.

This was the hardest task to achieve -  as a standard train reverser would only allow one loading with15 balls before releasing the train car.
This means making two trips to fully dump 30 balls into train car hopper.

So thinking cap put on and pondered the possible solutions. Also needed to find a way to synchronise the train release trip timing.

There are two ways of achieving this.

1/. The train reverser trip rotor has one arm which rotates at 24:1 ratio which matches the rack drive also 24:1.
Increasing the trip to 48:1 by using step down 12/24 gears would allow two loadings.

Modified a spare train reverser unit but requires use of six uni-couplings to drive both the trip rotor and output to the incline lift drive.
Result was a very cramped layout as the drive paths cross each other !! Timing adjusted by sliding the 12T gear out of mesh.

Rejected.

50628530671_c535440128_c.jpg

2/. Double the speed of the drive to the the incline gear rack using simple 1:2 step up gears with knob gears used for the right angle drive.

Train reverser fitted with a clutch and an adjusting knob to allow for setting the train release.

50628625992_f1ce5666dd_c.jpg

Solution 2 was the best & easiest option.
Easy to adjust so that the bucket after dumping 30 balls into the train hopper, lifts clear and the train departs.

Step 6 - mount all components onto a single base plate.

Step 7  Build a Ball input box. This will use my design with tilting ramp activated by a simple trip bar.

Step 8.  Make a video

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MOC Completed

Step 6 :- Mount all componants on a single base plate. Done

50641532487_cd8dcce734_z.jpg
 

Step 7 :-
Build a Ball input box. This will used my design with tilting ramp activated by a simple trip bar. Done.

50641451996_a0c2988ef9_z.jpg

 

50640698633_9116edf149_z.jpg

 

Step 8 :- Syncronise the ball lift with the input box, at first could not get this right, so double checked the build and found that the axle for the top sprocket wheel was 1L too high !!!
Lowered and now correct, and one link removed from the chain belt. Next was to position inbox correctly and the stops for the tilting ramp push bar & the stops for the counterweight so that the tilting ramp lined back up with the fixed section.
Again a lot of trial & error before working OK. Yellow cross bar axle positioned to load15 balls into bucket per trip.

Step 9.  Make a video

  

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/8/2020 at 12:29 PM, Doug72 said:

Gear Rack

 

50318486268_e9446365e7.jpg

Hello Doug,

I have a question concerning this rack piece. Can it be moved by a 16t gear? I mean the gear rotating directly above the rack's teeth.

Edited by Jonas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Jonas said:

Hello Doug,

I have a question concerning this rack piece. Can it be moved by a 16t gear? I mean the gear rotating directly above the rack's teeth.

Yes it can be done BUT only by using studded technic beams.

50653038357_1e2a17d430.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Yes it can be done BUT only by using studded technic beams.

50653038357_1e2a17d430.jpg

Thank you, Doug.

Actually, my question was wrong. I meant 12t gear. Can you show me if it fits with studless beams?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Jonas said:

Thank you, Doug.

Actually, my question was wrong. I meant 12t gear. Can you show me if it fits with studless beams?

Here's a mock up, using a 12T gear it,s designed to mesh with the rack in the housing.

Using 4 pce angle beam 4 x 2 

50653378727_73d53bc4ae.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Here's a mock up, using a 12T gear it designed to mesh with the rack in the housing.

Using 4 pce angle beam 4 x 2

Thank you again.

Unfortunately, I do not have that rack and simulating my desired solution in Stud.io did not work, so that is why I am asking. My intention was to use a pair of the racks (joined back to back as in your picture) and make a long rack that would be moved by 12t gears in a tiny profile of 1x3 studs, definitely without the housing. I am thinking about a small robotic arm with translate movements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jonas said:

Thank you again.

a long rack that would be moved by 12t gears in a tiny profile of 1x3 studs, definitely without the housing.

Don't think it is possible in such a tight profile, maybe possibe in a 1 x 4 unless anyone else has some ideas ?

An image of the 1 x 3 profile woud be usefull.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok. I tried to make a sketch that shows a construction of two parallel racks. I wonder if it could translate inside the 3x3 space in the depicted housing.

Sorry for spamming your thread. Please delete this stuff later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jonas said:

Ok. I tried to make a sketch that shows a construction of two parallel racks. I wonder if it could translate inside the 3x3 space in the depicted housing.

Sorry for spamming your thread. Please delete this stuff later.

That’s very similar to the rack I used for the Mk 1 high lift stepper lift, see earlier in this thread.

I only used one rack which was OK along with two side beams.

Don,t worry about spamming this thread, the rack part worked OK, it was the trips to change rack direction of the rack that didn’t,t. That’s why I change to the way to move the lift without need for a reverser.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Doug.

I watched your video earlier but there is no detail look at the rack housing there. Therefore I was not sure. And as I wrote, a Studio,io simulation did not work in this case.(I could not align the rack part and the housing part to fit together.) I also watched official instructions for the models where this rack piece is used and noticed that they always drive the rack by the new worm gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.