doug72

[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ethan M said:

I have a minor correction to what I stated beforehand. The shock absorbers do not seem to be performing as well as when rubber bands that were substituted. I have drawn this conclusion after some testing of the units in general. 

With a shock absorber it depends on what spring it has, soft or hard. Soft not enough force, with a hard spring it could push the train off the reverser.

With rubber bands you can add more to increase the force if required to trip the reversing bar on the train car.

Rubber bands are easy to add, unlike changing a shock absorber.

Loom bands are ideal £1 for 100

Edited by Doug72
Added text

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Akiyuki Through unit:- Dwell Unit (MOD)

My previous attempt at building this was not very reliable so dismantled it, found many parts were cracked where axles pass the connector blocks etc.

Completly Rebuilt and made sure all new connectors used.

As I required a through unit to act as a delay unit it no longer required the drive to a loader module.

To achieve this I removed the gearing that drives a loader module and replaced it with a gearing for dwell system. Dwell parts are white

Drive to this is by 8T gear and a 24T clutch gear. The clutch gear is mounted on a fixed axle. see images.

The white 24T gear provides the resistance to ensure the train car leaves once both chocks are lowered.

Using an L motor train car the delay is 6 seconds
Using an M motor train car the delay is 10 seconds.

Tested and functions well.

50729426836_b4e5ac4c3c_z.jpg

50728698483_61405f0f17_z.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/15/2020 at 3:23 PM, davec_nc said:

I had to change the gearing on the through-unit to slow it down. I added an 8:24 gear reduction right after the 24T gear that is driven by the train, I changed the 20:12 bevel gears to 12:12, and I changed the worm gear to a standard 2L worm driving a 24T gear. (I have disassembled it already, but I'll see if I can find a frame of a video which shows the gearing).

Thanks for the info now figured how to get a longer delay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use loom bands as well. I have since built the loader and have it working well. The parts needed for the unloader have been ordered and then I will be able to test the whole module and see how it operates in that situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Improved Vertical Bucket lift with new Video:-


During Lockdown No. 3 I decided to build a more compact vertical Ball lift based on my previous incline version.

This had issues with aligning various components onto a studded base plate due to 1/2 stud off sets etc. Also took up a lot of space.

Building the vertical lift took several attempts before I was  happy with it.

50837529838_46088fb90a_z.jpg

A stronger combined right angle gear box and worm gear box using a 24T gear with 3L crank arms to move the Lego Rack back and forwards to raise & lower the bucket.

A 12T gear engages with the gear rack to drive to the lower sprocket wheel.

The gear rack uses the new gear rack with housing.
LEGO Housing 2 x 15 x 3 for Gear Rack (18940)

LEGO Gear Rack 14 x 2 with Groove and Connectors (18942 / 60578)

50838339067_7c1533e280_z.jpg

The vertical lift uses two XL sprocket wheels with track links, the track link is fitted with tensioners to prevent links skipping on the sprocket wheels and allows a degree of movement for the bucket to line up with the loading input box.

50838339127_dd6f6ee88f_z.jpg

50837529728_b462736941_z.jpg

The input box meets GBC regs for inlet height of 10L and uses a tilting deck to release balls into the bucket and at same time prevent any more balls loading. Bucket can carry 15 balls per trip.

50838254836_dfebf8b74b_z.jpg

Train reverser is adjusted to make two loading runs so easily meets 30 balls per minute. 
Timing adjusted by sliding the black 12T gear out of engagement and then use the 24T gear to set the reverser trip arm to operate just after 2nd bucket lift has discharged into train hopper box.

50838338832_eba0cc0bfb_z.jpgI

Timing gear ratio should be 2:1 in order for two trips to be made by the train car & carry up to 30 balls per trip cycle

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correction:- 

Last image on previous post (1:2) is wrong, should read 2:1 gearing for train trip to make train run for two bucket trips.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PF Switches for GBC Train cars.

These are unobtainable from Lego & most sellors show an image of the older type but send you the newer type without the small black switch.

Recently I found a UK seller that had 7 correct ones for sale.


After contacting the seller to confirm they had the small black polarity switch, I ordered two which arrived today along with other lego gears I required.
Delivered in 2 days from order. items tested OK & appear to be unused.

50959256341_4d5e9c0ecc_z.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Train GBC Swing Loader Resurrected (WIP) Mark 3.

The Mark 1 version failed as I was unable to synchronise the module with the train reverser.
The MK 2 version using EV3 was successful but against the spirit of GBC for modules to be self driven by the train car.
 

Mk 3 version currently in development and will use a different way of controlling the movements required using a modified train reverser.

Initially I tried a rack drive system as per the incline GBC  ball lift but it did not have enough power to raise a fully loaded ball container with 30 balls.

Progress to date:- Towers built & tested for the swinging arms built along with worm drive mechanism.

Worm drive system:-
This uses a pair of LEGO Block Connector with One Half of Wormed Gearbox (32166)

These provide a very strong gearbox but the 1/2 L problem needs to be accommodated when building into a studless frame structure.

50975594053_2fa7e1a2e1_z.jpg

50976282871_de3c2ac5d7_z.jpg

Four gear ratios are possible depending on which gears & turntables are used.

Worm drive with 24:1 reduction and a 24T gear meshing with a Z56 Turntable = 56:1
Worm drive using 24T gear and a 20T gear meshing with  Z60 Turntable = 72:1
Worm drive using a 40T gear with 20T gear meshing with a Z60 Turntable, 120:1 - slightly harder to mount onto the towers. Worm drive using 40T gear and a 24T gear meshing with a Z56 Turntable = 93.3r :1

50976438531_ebe5ba1e7f.jpg

50976438581_5711080cc0.jpg

I have settled on using the 72:1 gear ratio.

At first will try to drive the swing Loader direct from the reverser.
If this insufficient then I will use a supplementary PF motor, either M or L type.

L motor shown in photo only for testing swing cycle and has proven can carry 30 balls per trip using either M or L motor.

Reverser modifications:-

Old type PF switch with polarity switch added.

Train triggers the switch & starts the motor starting as train docks into the reverser.

50976283106_901910f329_z.jpg

Trip Rotor Clutch:-
If possible I intend NOT to try & synchronise the system.
The drive to the trip rotor has a normally dis-engaged clutch. When the ball container is back onto the train, the swing arms contact a push rod which engages the drive to the 4 arm trip rotor to release the train, as train departs the supplementary motor stops.

Next stages :-

Mount everything onto a base plate  & try direct drive from the train reverser then M motor & L motor.
Find a way to reverse the system once balls loaded.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lack of progress !!!

The train does not have enough power to run the module due to the train axle 8T gear skipping on the 24T gear on the train reverser.
Therefore the supplementary motor is required, now tested with an M motor to run the module reverser and can lift 30 balls OK.

50988650201_0b0ba710c4.jpg

50988650166_9abdcb0dc3.jpg

Train reverser modified so that as the train arrives it pushes the PF switch to ON to start the M motor. At end of cycle as loaded train departs, the switch returns to OFF using a rubber band and counterweight.

Checked number of turns required to swing the arms each way & found it is 38 revolutions.

If this could be reduced to 36 turns then should be possible to synchronise the module. To achieve this I lowered the centre height of the Z60 Turntables  by 2L.

50988756317_fe6c3dc29c.jpg

Timing the module:-
Drive to swing the arms is 72:1 
Modified the train reverser trip also to 72: 1 ratio using 36T double bevel gear & 1L worm gear with a 2:1 stage. using 12T & 24T gears. i.e. 36 x 2 =72

50988650061_255b6bdc4a.jpg

To adjust the timing to release the train the 2:1 reduction is dis-engaged by sliding a red bush & 12T gear out of engagement with the 24T gear.
The 24T gear then used to adjust the position of the rotor trip arm. Once set the 12T gear & red bush are slip back in place with 24T gear.

50987944418_ebb5c4cf4a.jpg

If it does proves impossible to synchronise the module I will revert to a push rod trip to make train depart.

New Problem:-
Found the 24T gear rubs on the baseplate studs - so the whole train reverser was raised by 1L. This also helped with achieving the 36 turns in both directions.

As the cradle that holds the ball carrier is free to swing, two locating beams were fitted for the cradle to sit on in the correct position allowing train with ball carrier to dock smoothly.
Also fitted two rubber 2L bushes to the cradle holes to grip the ball hoper to prevent movment while in transit.
The inlet  track was also fitted with two 4L rack sections & 2 4x1 tiles, with side guides to assist train entering & leaving.

50988756317_fe6c3dc29c.jpg

At the loading point 4 beams are located on the base plate for ball carrier to sit on which ever way round it is for loading balls. 
2 x 2 with centre stud plates had to used to get correct 1/2 L positioning.

Reverser built for the module swing arms using the M motor to power it tested manually back & forward  & OK

Next steps:
Install a drive from the train reverser trip rotor axle to reverse the direction of the swing arms correctly at loading point and at the train departure.
This requires a 1:2 step gear ratio.

Build a suitable ball inbox to load the ball carrier with max. 30 balls per trip.

So far no balls have been lost !!

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Modified GBC Train Reverser.

When testing the Train GBC Swing Loader found that the 8T gear on the train axle would skip under heavy load  & damaged the 8T gear.

To overcome this I have added an extra 24T gear on the rack side to share the load.

The extra gear also helps push the train car fully against the end stop.

The gear rack had to modified slightly as shown. Tested and works OK & train enters & leaves OK.

Now proven that the train can power the swing loader and carry 30 balls per trip.

 

51032206231_3f9d6ce07c_z.jpg

More updates about the Swing Loader coming soon.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2018 at 7:53 AM, Jonas said:

 

 

 

I have built your turnable model for my train system. It won't stop making gear grinding sounds and releasing the car to early. I have made sure that the model and the turnable are facing the right way. Please help!

On 2/19/2021 at 7:44 AM, Doug72 said:

PF Switches for GBC Train cars.

These are unobtainable from Lego & most sellors show an image of the older type but send you the newer type without the small black switch.

Recently I found a UK seller that had 7 correct ones for sale.

Is it ok to use the new ones?

Edited by Yeetforlego

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Yeetforlego said:

I have built your turnable model for my train system. It won't stop making gear grinding sounds and releasing the car to early. I have made sure that the model and the turnable are facing the right way. Please help!

Is it ok to use the new ones?

See pages 17, 18,20,21 for earlier posts about this turntable

Make sure that the 8T gear on the axles does not rub on the gear rack ends of the gear
Rack. See photo showing positioning of the gear rack.

51034374073_cc0c8c0e4d_z.jpg

Re PF Switch.

The old style switch is best as it requires no modification & the small pole reverser switch allows correct setting so that the trip beams on train car work correctly.

See posts on page 25 Feb 12th 2019.

The newer switch is can be used but needs opening up to modifying to remove the lever notches otherwise the trip beams will not move the switch to reverse the train car.

Drive gears on the axles also need changing sides to make sure the trip beams act correctly.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Doug72 said:

See pages 17, 18,20,21 for earlier posts about this turntable

Make sure that the 8T gear on the axles does not rub on the gear rack ends of the gear
Rack. See photo showing positioning of the gear rack.

 

Re PF Switch.

The old style switch is best as it requires no modification & the small pole reverser switch allows correct setting so that the trip beams on train car work correctly.

See posts on page 25 Feb 12th 2019.

The newer switch is can be used but needs opening up to modifying to remove the lever notches otherwise the trip beams will not move the switch to reverse the train car.

Drive gears on the axles also need changing sides to make sure the trip beams act correctly.

Thanks for your help! I was able to fix the turnable and it is now working smoothly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Additional 24T gear for Train Reverser.

First reverser I modified work fine without the 24T gear touching the underside of the gear rack 10 x 1L plate supporting the two gear racks.

Second reverser  I found the 24T gear fouled the under side end edge, probably due to a slightly bent axle.
I have revised the rack to prevent this.

Photo shows revised method which increases the power output from the train car without skipping under heavy load.

51041904298_a9d0ccfaff_z.jpg

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Additional 24T gear for Train Reverser.

First reverser I modified work fine without the 24T gear touching the underside of the gear rack 10 x 1L plate supporting the two gear racks.

Second reverser  I found the 24T gear fouled the under side end edge, probably due to a slightly bent axle.
I have revised the rack to prevent this.

Photo shows revised method which increases the power output from the train car without skipping under heavy load.

 

Cool! I updated the train reverse unit to push the the black technic beam back a little bit more. I also changed the train unit to accompany the new power functions switch. It actually works great and hasn't had a fail yet. Now I can use the new PF switches.

Edited by Yeetforlego

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello all,

I have finally got around to completing the drawing file for my modified train unloader.

The modified unloader with counter weight, new reverse switch and loading and unloading ramp. The aim of the modifications was to reduce friction within the system between the train cart and the unloader as well as a better ramp and eject mechanism to make sure the cart does not get stuck. 

Have a look at the switching mechanism and the ramp as it may help with some of the other projects on this page.

BrickSafe --> https://bricksafe.com/pages/HRU_Bricks/akiyuki-train-unloader-modified. 

Modified%20A18014_TrainUnloader%20Final.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, HRU_Bricks said:

Hello all,

I have finally got around to completing the drawing file for my modified train unloader.

The modified unloader with counter weight, new reverse switch and loading and unloading ramp. The aim of the modifications was to reduce friction within the system between the train cart and the unloader as well as a better ramp and eject mechanism to make sure the cart does not get stuck. 

Have a look at the switching mechanism and the ramp as it may help with some of the other projects on this page.

BrickSafe --> https://bricksafe.com/pages/HRU_Bricks/akiyuki-train-unloader-modified. 

Modified%20A18014_TrainUnloader%20Final.

very nice, i see you also changed the yellow shocks for black ones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Swing Loader Update with images:-

The drive to the swinging arms is very reliable and consists of two parallel linked worm drive gear boxes with clutch gear protection.

 

Progress has been very slow trying to get a viable way to control this module.

The Swing loader is capable of carrying & transferring 30 balls per cycle. The two 24T gears help share the load from the train car drive.

A short dwell period is then required to load 30 balls & then activate the reverser the main drive to swing the load back up & over to land on the train.

A push rod then activates the trip rotor to cause train the leave.

At this point I found that the swing arm reverser was blocked by the train push rod for the main reverser unit until the train had departed. As train departs the drive system stops !!
 

I need to find a way to allow the drive reverser to work in both directions - maybe by using a differential.

Now looking for ideas and a solution to this, does anyone have  ideas to overcome this problem.

Now tried a trip lever system to move the reverser but as it changes over it stops midway and drive stops for the swing arms.

Need a the reverser to snap over but also give short dwell time to load balls. Its a Catch 22 situation !!!!!

April 19th :- build abandoned as cannot find a solution without using EV3 

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Train GBC Modules using EV3 with photos. (WIP) (Vedeo)

My previous attempts to mechanically get a GBC Swing Loader & a Crane Loader to work failed as I was unable to get synchronisation for the required movements.
I have abandoned both projects and settled on using EV3 to control them.

Both modules now rebuilt using EV3 Control.

Crane GBC Loader

Took awhile to devise the EV3 program to run the loading cycle.

If anyone wants the EV3 program, just ask.

Had a spectacular disintegration of the chain traversing drive when wrong speed setting was used. i.e revolutions.
Change to degrees of rotation to get precise positioning.

Chain drive:- uses the old Lego large chain links with sprocket gears. This is clamped to the hoist carriage see photo below.

Improved structure built with loading cycle started when the train car with ball hopper docks.

Three EV3 motors are used plus a touch sensor.

1 x medium motor to run the train reverser trip.

2 x Large EV3 motors for hoist & traversing.

1 x Touch Sensor activated by train car to start the EV3 program.

Train motor is stopped as it docks by using a static cam to push the train car trip bar just enough to stop the train motor.

When loading cycle ends the Medium EV3 motor runs for 2 revs to turn the train reverser rotor and restart the loaded train car.
Tested and functions OK -

Video - test running to fine tune postions for loading & replacing on train car.

 

input loading box still to build with balls released by a trip bar as empty train ball hopper lands.

Comments and suggestions Welcome.

Photos Below

Swing Loader. ( to be posted later)

Only a fairly simple program is required for this module. Structure built and proven but awaiting EV3 parts to arrive. Touch Sensor (eBay) & Medium Motor. (Lego on line). Parts now received.

Crane Loader Photos : -

51182406156_15a28a48ae_z.jpgIMG_8145 

51182406131_cd9ec81aed_z.jpgIMG_8146 

51182621748_012358f800_z.jpgIMG_8147 

51182406066_9858704c57_z.jpgIMG_8148 

51183488640_30a29fce9c_z.jpgIMG_8149 

51182406006_d2a50fd64d_z.jpgIMG_8150 

51183488580_f1451fc5f5_z.jpgIMG_8151

51183188939_158b53637d_z.jpgIMG_8152 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Train GBC Loader Module Ver 2 using EV3 Completed. The Balls are Rolling !

Ball Input box finally built which took a long time to get it functioning as required with many balls going everywhere !!

Can transfer 30 balls per run cycle. Input box is GBC standard 10L high x 8L wide. Length is 16L to hold 30 balls

Ball loading is controlled by a trip arm as the empty ball hopper touches down on the base plate.

EV3 program can be seen at the end of the video.

===============================================

 

Next build is a Swing Loader using EV3 to control movements.

This only requires a touch sensor & 2 medium motors.

Basic program made but will need refining.

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Train GBC Swing Loader EV3 Version.

Finally have got this working after a long struggle.

The biggest problem in the end was finding a way for the inbox to load balls onto the train car hopper.

Space was very tight on the base plate so I had narrow down the ball exit to 6L to prevent balls escaping.

Trip to release balls actuated by the swing arm as it nears loading point.

EV3 code blocks:-

51204298273_1896cdb23d_w.jpg

Video:-

 

Edited by Doug72
embedded video

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2019 at 10:33 PM, Berthil said:

If anything new of train loading I could imagine two parallel container loading stations where the train would return an empty one and then loop to fetch the full one and of course ball stream would be redirected accordingly. With two trains running and passing module this would overcome slow loading time issues. So train arrives with empty container at left side and empty container gets lifted up from train after switch engages at highest point to redirect ball stream to this container.  Train without container leaves and get full container on other side to bring to unloader module. Meanwhile other train comes back from unloader module to get rid of his empty container to empty container filling spot. Just a short thought with huge impact on free spare time :)

@Berthil could you provide a sketch of your proposed idea as suggested.

I have built several new modules during lockdown using both mechanical & EV3 controled and improved some earlier modules.

I have plenty of time now and looking for new ideas for GBC Train modules to build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Doug72 That remark some time ago was more a possible solution to enhance the ball capacity of your loading station I believe. As it could not process 1 ball per second on average at that time.

Meanwhile I've debottlenecked my Rotary Dumper close to perfection with the Akiyuki type lift (no worm gear). I added a gear drive and train guide for better drive gear contact between train and rotary dumper.
Still planning on creating a building instruction for the lift dumper. Other than that I'm happy with the train system I have. Recently made a video again with my compact train system and some other modules.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/5/2021 at 1:21 AM, Berthil said:

@Doug72 That remark some time ago was more a possible solution to enhance the ball capacity of your loading station I believe. As it could not process 1 ball per second on average at that time.

Meanwhile I've debottlenecked my Rotary Dumper close to perfection with the Akiyuki type lift (no worm gear). I added a gear drive and train guide for better drive gear contact between train and rotary dumper.
Still planning on creating a building instruction for the lift dumper. Other than that I'm happy with the train system I have. Recently made a video again with my compact train system and some other modules.
 

Looks a complex circuit layout that runs well.

------------------------------------------

I have now improved my GBC Train Crane loader to run faster:-
The lifting & lowering was too slow with a trip cycle of 90 seconds.

Tried adding step up gearing from the large EV3 motor but it proved impossible to mount it along with the two step up gears within the existing framework.

Changed the lift drive to a Medium EV3 motor which has increased RPM and simpler to mount.

Trip cycle from empty train arriving to loaded train departing is now 52 secs with a 30 ball load.

EV3 Program re-written.

51228016807_0600c8a5d4.jpg

 

 

Edited by Doug72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have finally gotten around to completing the PDF instructions for my modified Train cart unloader and switching unit. 

The main improvements include:

1. Greatly reduced friction for the ball carrier entering and exiting the unloader

2. Counter weight to assist the unloading and reduce strain on the motor

3. Better ramps and bump stop for the switching unit. 

4. Simpler and more efficient build/use of parts (including the most resent changes for my last update)

Here is the link --> https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-72808/HRU Bricks/modified-akiyuki-train-unloader/?fbclid=IwAR125a-seBptkxPnlVnc65mN-zYovZ7T5kc9bth-C87Eac0kM3NPrTuA6HA#details

Enjoy!3%20Thumb%203.jpg

18 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Looks a complex circuit layout that runs well.

------------------------------------------

I have now improved my GBC Train Crane loader to run faster:-

GBC Train Transfer Crane module - improved. 
The lifting & lowering was too slow with a trip cycle of 90 seconds.

Tried adding step up gearing from the large EV3 motor but it proved impossible to mount it along with the two step up gears within the existing framework.

Changed the lift drive to a Medium EV3 motor which has increased RPM and simpler to mount.

Trip cycle from empty train arriving to loaded train departing is now 52 secs with a 30 ball load.

EV3 Program re-written.

 

This is a really great concept. I think I'll do something like this with the new Mindstorms unit

Edited by HRU_Bricks
Add picture

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.