[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[doug72]

35 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

Thank you @Doug72, I am glad you like it. Indeed the structure is much more solid now. I was also thinking about lead but I imagined it would be harder to get the shape for those half cylinder pieces I went for so didn't even look into availability of it.

Btw.: That Anderton boat lift looks amazing piece of engineering! Have you been there?

Best regards,

Miha

Yes been there twice, once when it was closed and derelict.
Second time on holiday after it had been restored.

Its an amazing structure and one of the wonders of the UK canal system.

Built in 1875 it used hydraulic rams to move the lift but using river water in them not oil.
The rams eventually failed and the  lift was converted to electric winch system with counter huge weights.

The Lift closed in 1983 on safety grounds and counterweights removed as structure in danger of collapse.

Restored using Lottery Funds in 2000 and back to hydraulic operation but using hydraulic oil in th rams.

You can take trips on it with a cruise on the river below.

Slight jolt as it starts to move but very smooth once its starts moving

As one caisson goes down the other goes up.

Now that make for an interesting GBC train module !!!!!

re Lead for counter weights.
I have some sheet 2m thick roofing lead which cut into a thin strip and then rolled up would fit inside the Lego cyclinder.
Just done a quick test set up and probably will use to two fold pully system with two cyclinders.

Doug
 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

I Didn't know about the worm gear but already have seen the lift is rather slow. I've timed your video and it takes 36 seconds from train entry to exit. That's too long for me as I use a one train setup in a GBC circuit. The original lift is just fast enough with one train and some tracks to reach 1 ball per second, I tested this for 4 hours in a small circuit.
It can be solved by using two trains and the passing module but I would like to avoid the use of the passing module because it would require me to have 4 trains with Lithium accu pack and as you probably know, the Lithium batteries are quite costly (although I might stack up a few in case LEGO stops selling them).

I will however try the counterweights and ideas of the updated switches to see if I can smoothen the lift and make it a bit more reliable. Thanks!

Edited September 27, 2018 by Berthil

[doug72]

14 minutes ago, Berthil said:

I Didn't know about the worm gear but already have seen the lift is rather slow. I've timed your video and it takes 36 seconds from train entry to exit. 

Both mine and @MajklSpajkl videos were using 16:16 gears to the worm gear.

If change to 20:12 step up gears it’s faster by a factor of 0.6.

Mine Using 16:16  gears was 20s  now with 20:12 step up is 12s. with 24:8 should be approx 7s.

 

[MajklSpajkl]

@Berthil, I agree, I plan to use it with the passing module + I don't care too much about 1 second rule because I'll have a small GBC setup on our LUG's exhibition, which is rather small compared to the big events you guys are mostly attending 

My final video uses 20:12 gear step up combo, but I think I'll try 24:8 anyway.

@Doug72, if I understand you correctly, you've achieved 12 seconds lift with 20:12 and without the counterweights? 

[doug72]

38 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

@Doug72, if I understand you correctly, you've achieved 12 seconds lift with 20:12 and without the counterweights? 

Just re-verified speed.
Using 20:12 step up gears.
12 secs up - 7 secs down with 30 balls in the basket with fully charged batteries & without counter weights.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

I just don't get it. There must be something I'm doing very wrong then, or maybe my motors are more tired than yours . I achieved you result only by using counterweights. And I've been extra carefull with all the axles in order not to induce extra friction... I am affraid that using 24:8 would be a problem for my unfortunate setup...  Will try tonight.

Best regards.

[doug72]

I'll make a video later.
This is my counter weight arrangment - only one side so far.
IMG_6222 by Doug Ridgway, on Flickr

[dunes]

24 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

I just don't get it. There must be something I'm doing very wrong then, or maybe my motors are more tired than yours . I achieved you result only by using counterweights. And I've been extra carefull with all the axles in order not to induce extra friction... I am affraid that using 24:8 would be a problem for my unfortunate setup...  Will try tonight.

Best regards.

Your elevator is higher than @Doug72's

Mine is as high as yours. And I have the nearly same times on a 16:16 setup.

[MajklSpajkl]

Just now, dunes said:

Your elevator is higher than @Doug72's

Mine is as high as yours. And I have the nearly same times on a 16:16 setup.

 I totaly forgot about it. . I went back to watch Akiyuki's original version - 5-6 seconds per lift. I guess it will be hard to reach that with the use of worm gear. But as I said, I'm mouch more into reliabilty than speed.

[doug72]

Confirmed - average  times with 30 balls carried.

Raising average 12 seconds

Lowering average 7 seconds.

Note: my elevator is 5 x 4L gear racks high.

with 7 x 4L gear racks would be approx :-

Raising 17 seconds

Lowering 10 seconds.

New video.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

@Doug72, did you upload the video as unlisted or as private? Video is unavailable. You have to change it to unlisted in order to be able to share the url or embed it.  Or making it public works of course.

Edited September 27, 2018 by MajklSpajkl

[doug72]

Thanks its on line now - did same way I usually do  but for some odd reason didn't work this time

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

Just tried to use 24:8T gears but can't be done as the 8T gear fouls on the underside of the 4L gear rack next to the 24T gear.
 

A doubled up 24T gear also fouls the structure !!!

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

4 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Just tried to use 24:8T gears but can't be done as the 8T gear fouls on the underside of the 4L gear rack next to the 24T gear.
 

A doubled up 24T gear also fouls the structure !!!

I was affraid this might be the case...maybe making the platform wider for a stud on each side would make it, but I don't think I'll give it a try...

Thx for letting me know before i got started 

[doug72]

It might be possible to change the final drive to each axle that has the 12T gears that engage with racks to 20:12 step up.

This would reduce time by 0.6

Edited September 27, 2018 by Doug72

[dunes]

this is a sumup model from @MajklSpajkl elevator design and @Doug72 worm gear elevator module.

.. and Im waiting for the steelballs for the counterweights to arrive.

 

Edited September 30, 2018 by dunes
typo

[MajklSpajkl]

Hehe @dunes, you work fast 

What set are those steel balls from - I assume they are LEGO are they? Will they provide enough counterweight if put in those half cylinder case? My measurements kinda pointed out that about 140-150g per weight is needed... but of course anything up to that is better than nothing 

[dunes]

9 hours ago, MajklSpajkl said:

Hehe @dunes, you work fast 

What set are those steel balls from - I assume they are LEGO are they? Will they provide enough counterweight if put in those half cylinder case?

I ordered generic steelballs from eBay in 18mm. same size as the Lego ones. Its just a try. if they not heavy enough I go with your option. Nobody looks inside the counterweights.

[doug72]

23 minutes ago, dunes said:

I ordered generic steelballs from eBay in 18mm. same size as the Lego ones. Its just a try. if they not heavy enough I go with your option. Nobody looks inside the counterweights.

Lego will have out sourced steel balls anyway and not manufactured them.

[doug72]

Elevator
I have had problems with a train sometimes not leaving th elevator when at lower level after the chock is lowered.
This due to the 8T gear on axle end not engaging with the gear rack.

Now modified the rack and working OK and does not need the 1/2 stud offset, OK see image.

================================================

I have come up with a improved solution to the worm drive system at the non worm drive end by using a LEGO Technic Power Functions Linear Actuator Bracket Hinged Mount (61904) This gives a firm connection with the elevator platform and also acts as a spacer between the two beams.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

21 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

I have come up with a improved solution to the worm drive system at the non worm drive end by using a LEGO Technic Power Functions Linear Actuator Bracket Hinged Mount (61904) This gives a firm connection with the elevator platform and also acts as a spacer between the two beams.

Great solution Doug! Thx!

[dunes]

Thanks to @MajklSpajkl providing me more pictures of his loader version I had a successful use of dark azure colored technic bricks from my stock, finally.

Lowered by 2 studs, different ball pit and some minor changes to his version.

Edited October 1, 2018 by dunes
typo

[MajklSpajkl]

Wow, looks great in dark azure!

If anyone else is interested, the photos are in my bricksafe folder.

https://bricksafe.com/pages/MajklSpajkl/gbc-akiyuki-train-system-v2/loader

[Berthil]

My take on the use of the narrow tracks for narrow radius turns. Original Akiyuki version lifts the train up on the inside creating unbalance on entry and exit (and uses a lot of slopes that get damaged). This version runs smoother but requires the tracks to be a brick high.

[doug72]

Rotary Dumper update:
Now changed trigger on rotary dumper as per @Courbet suggestion as shown in the  PDF instructions.
i.e.( I chose to reduce the trigger lenght by 1/2L. It worked very well but I had to increase the rubber belt tension a bit.) 
Eaxch rubber band wrapped round the 1/2 bush twice & Train now consistently exits OK.

Elevator uppdate:
Had problems with the train jamming on exit at upper level, in the small gap between the elevator & bridge.
With only one rack used on one side the train twisted enough to jam so I have returned to using racks on both sides of the platform plus the 8T idler gears which keep train 8T gear in contact with the 24T drive gear, elevator is now working OK.

Does anyone have suggestions for a new GBC Train module ?
Have an idea for an inclined plane, or re-engineer Akiyuki's crane module but for use with the Ver 2 train with PF switch.