[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[rskamen]

I have been on the Akiyuki Project forum, but my first post here. I am 74 years old, retired from the Publishing industry and living in Delray Beach, Florida. I built my first ever Lego recently which was the Volvo Wheel Loader with Efferman steering mods. Then I built from scratch the #8043 Excavator, ordering all parts and following the mods. After 6 months of research, ordering parts, and getting bleary eyed watching the Rebrickers videos, I built my first GBC - The Akiyuki Great Ball Factory. It turned out beautifully and is extremely reliable. I built this with only a few bricks I "borrowed" from one of my grandsons, and ordering about 3,000 pieces. I recently bought the Bucket Wheel Excavator (#42055) for the sole purposes of using it for parts.

I am getting ready to build some of the Train System and have read through this entire forum. I am amazed at the work so many of you have done. I wanted to start with 2 trains, 2 loader/conveyors, the elevator and the rotary ball dumper. I need to research buying track, but I read a page or two back that most of them are available at Bricklink. Can anyone give me the exact name(s) of the parts, or the part numbers for the various sections and configurations of track? Due to space limitations, I would probably build the compact layout that Berthil did. Doug72 may become my new best friend for the next few months as I continue to follow this forum, research and order pars, and begin the build. Other than the BWE (#42055), I have no inventory of parts and would need to carefully order everything that I cannot scavenge from the kit. I look forward to any help, words of wisdom, or specific advice.

[doug72]

9 hours ago, rskamen said:

I have been on the Akiyuki Project forum, but my first post here. I am 74 years old, retired from the Publishing industry and living in Delray Beach, Florida. I built my first ever Lego recently which was the Volvo Wheel Loader with Efferman steering mods. Then I built from scratch the #8043 Excavator, ordering all parts and following the mods. After 6 months of research, ordering parts, and getting bleary eyed watching the Rebrickers videos, I built my first GBC - The Akiyuki Great Ball Factory. It turned out beautifully and is extremely reliable. I built this with only a few bricks I "borrowed" from one of my grandsons, and ordering about 3,000 pieces. I recently bought the Bucket Wheel Excavator (#42055) for the sole purposes of using it for parts.

I am getting ready to build some of the Train System and have read through this entire forum. I am amazed at the work so many of you have done. I wanted to start with 2 trains, 2 loader/conveyors, the elevator and the rotary ball dumper. I need to research buying track, but I read a page or two back that most of them are available at Bricklink. Can anyone give me the exact name(s) of the parts, or the part numbers for the various sections and configurations of track? Due to space limitations, I would probably build the compact layout that Berthil did. Doug72 may become my new best friend for the next few months as I continue to follow this forum, research and order pars, and begin the build. Other than the BWE (#42055), I have no inventory of parts and would need to carefully order everything that I cannot scavenge from the kit. I look forward to any help, words of wisdom, or specific advice.

Welcome to the GBC Train Forum.
Saw your post on the main Akiyuki GBC Forum, a seperate forum was started as it was difficult to locate GBC Train entries on it.

When I first got into building system, I was given good advice by @Jonas to start with the basic modules and get to understand how they function.

Then if you like the system and get the bug,  you can progress the more advanced ones. You will soon discover you will need a lot of parts and a layout can take up a lot of space. My set up will be more linear using Vee reversers or turntables.

I would suggest to start with Two Type 2 trains / Loader / Unloader to get a basic working system working. 
I started this way and then added a passing module to allow two trains to run, before progressing to more complex modules.

The Elevator & Rotary Dumper are the most complex parts of the system and require a lot of parts.

Plain track and switches can be obtained from Lego, or other on line sellers, such as Bricklink, Brickowl,  Ebay, Amazone.

The Elevator / Dumper requires a double cross over. The Lego one is no longer made, is hard to find and very expensive.

We used the 3D printed basic version by TrixBrix at a much lower price and does not require any modification.

Answers for most questions & queries can be found in the forum but any problems just ask, myself & contributors are always willing to help.

The BWE has plenty of usefull parts including 14 curved gear racks. The improved Rotary dumper requires 16 pce.

Doug72

Edited January 6, 2019 by Doug72

[Berthil]

Welcome @rskamen and thanks for introducing yourself.

The tracks are current Powerfunctions RC Trains tracks (so not the old 9v system which have metal tracks):

53401 for straights
53400 for wide curves
85976 for the narrow curves (hard to get in Dark Bluish Grey)
60128 for the crossover (2 pieces), very hard to get as Doug mentioned
88492c00 flexible tracks to make ends meet
53404 and 53407 switch tracks

I read you want to start with my compact layout. That's good but please be aware I have build a pneumatic module to load the train at the start. There is no building description of this one and pneumatic parts are also expensive. But may be when you get at this point you will come up with a new loader module to lift balls over the trains :)

Good luck and as Doug says, we are always here to help when you get stuck.

[doug72]

54 minutes ago, Berthil said:

I read you want to start with my compact layout. That's good but please be aware I have build a pneumatic module to load the train at the start. There is no building description of this one and pneumatic parts are also expensive. But may be when you get at this point you will come up with a new loader module to lift balls over the trains :)

Good luck and as Doug says, we are always here to help when you get stuck.

I will have ago at making mechanical version of your pneumatic module or adapt my high capacticity vertical lift reverser module, with an extended chute over the track driven via a long lay shaft under the track.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

Thank you Doug72 and Berthil for your advice, and information. I know the Elevator and Rotary Dumper are very complex, but I am totally intrigued by the design and operation. Besides, I believe that the kit #42055 has a good deal of the parts required. I never built a GBC and got the Ball Factory done with minimal temper tantrums. It was fun to do all the research and gathering of parts. My wife was getting concerned about all the packages that just kept coming to the mailbox. The Target stores here in the USA is having a sale on RC track kits. 8 straight, 4 curved, and 8 flexible, kit #60205 for only $US15,00. I can pick it up locally with no shipping costs. I might buy 2 or 3 of those kits to fulfill the basic track requirements. Then look for the switches and crossovers. Just concerned the wide curves will make the layout too big. Any idea how big the radius is using the wide cure, and how many sections required to make a 180 degree turn?

[doug72]

5 hours ago, rskamen said:

Just concerned the wide curves will make the layout too big. Any idea how big the radius is using the wide cure, and how many sections required to make a 180 degree turn?

Eight sections of curved track make a 180º turn. A full circle 16 sections with outside diameter 28 inches.
You can get a slighty smaller diamenter using flexible track but not ideal. Flex. track mainly used to fill in gaps or if track doesn't line up & is = to 1/4 straight.
Straight track is 16 studs long. Switches are 32 studs long =  two track straights.
That's a very good price for a Lego Track pack.
My layout will be going in the attic eventually and the baseboard is just wide emough. ( It used to house my OO gauge train layout - now sold ).

I enjoy the challange building the GBC train modules to get them to work reliable with mods etc.

My first GBC Train layout was on our dining table and could only just squeeze it on.
 I used a turntable at one end to reverse the train 180º  and a Vee reverser at the other end along with a passing module.

You need to use the original type of PF change over switch with small black pole c/o switch for the train units. The new ones have too much friction but can be modified if disassembled & the dedents smoothed off.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

Doug72 - thank you for your prompt reply an invaluable information. I really like the picture and video you posted of your compact layout. Definitely something to strive for. Saty tuned, I am sure there will be a lot more questions coming.

[doug72]

23 hours ago, Doug72 said:

I will have ago at making mechanical version of your pneumatic module or adapt my high capacticity vertical lift reverser module, with an extended chute over the track driven via a long lay shaft under the track.

An alternative to to @Berthil pneumatic scissors lift, using my high capacity vertical ball lift driven by a standard reverser unit via a long drive shaft under the track.
Should be able to accomodate the ballon curved track OK.
Timing had to be adjusted to take account of the time it takes for balls to roll down the extended chute so none escaped after train departs.

Track had to be raised by an extra 1 plate to give clearance for the drive axle.

Next will try and see if I can devise a mechanical scissors lift, driven by train reverser is possible. A reverser will be required to operate this.
Will use either two large linear actuators or the new gear rack with housing that has a longer travel of 9L. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Doug72

[Berthil]

@Doug72 good idea with the vertical lift. I might build my own version and use it as a backup for the pneumatic scissor lift as I didn't test the scissor lift yet for more than an hour. I very much doubt if the train can develop enough force to drive a scissor lift fast enough but you came up with clever solutions before so looking forward to your version.

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Berthil said:

@Doug72 good idea with the vertical lift. I might build my own version and use it as a backup for the pneumatic scissor lift as I didn't test the scissor lift yet for more than an hour. I very much doubt if the train can develop enough force to drive a scissor lift fast enough but you came up with clever solutions before so looking forward to your version.

Re Vertical lift:
Just need to build a better discharge chute to get more slope down the train hopper to stop balls sticking.
The only critical part is the chain which needs to under tension to be able to lift 3 balls instead of 1 when using just two blue 3L pins.

Re Mechanical Scissors lift:
Thanks, I think a it will be on par with the swing loader to get the timing & reversing to work in sync - watch this space.

Been a busy time building Lego Technic since Xmas,
Built the 42082 Rough Terrain Crane with a easy modification for independent control for hoisting / luffing / extending.
Also got  the 42080 Forest machine which still under construction but will be used for spares later.

Now that I have the bigger pnuematic actuators from the 42080 theywill be usefull.

Edited January 7, 2019 by Doug72

[doug72]

6 hours ago, Berthil said:

@Doug72 good idea with the vertical lift. I might build my own version and use it as a backup for the pneumatic scissor lift as I didn't test the scissor lift yet for more than an hour. I very much doubt if the train can develop enough force to drive a scissor lift fast enough but you came up with clever solutions before so looking forward to your version.

Re Scissors lift:
Can you post an image showing the arrangment of the bottom lift support structure, framing and the slide for the bottom of the moving legs ?
How the shock absorbers are placed & used ?
Also the pivot point for the pnuematic cyclinder. 

The new gear rack with housing gives the best travel range of 8L.
Linear actuator = 5L / Large pnuematic cyclinder = 6L

Will try  2 or 3 linear actuator side by side to see if workable & then the gear rack with housing but it might be too long and ackward to arrange the drive to it.

Will make a nice challange project. 

Thanks for any help.

Doug

 

[Berthil]

I think basic setup and pneumatic cilinder position is visible well here

What seems a shock absorber is a connector with 12 axle and three soft shock springs to get enough travel. If needed I can try to make a better picture.
These make initial force to get the lift up much lower and dampens the lift on its way down.

The problem with the scissor lift is that when the lift is up balls must be contained until the lift is down again.
This can be solved by adding yet another belt or something that stops when the train is not there but then why not make a higher belt like you have made now.
So pneumatics seemed the best solution in this case.

[doug72]

20 minutes ago, Berthil said:

I think basic setup and pneumatic cilinder position is visible well here

What seems a shock absorber is a connector with 12 axle and three soft shock springs to get enough travel. If needed I can try to make a better picture.
These make initial force to get the lift up much lower and dampens the lift on its way down.

The problem with the scissor lift is that when the lift is up balls must be contained until the lift is down again.
This can be solved by adding yet another belt or something that stops when the train is not there but then why not make a higher belt like you have made now.
So pneumatics seemed the best solution in this case.

Thanks - thats a better resolution image than the one I tried to enlarge.

Figured a way to use the gear rack with housings and possible use two of them for the bottom guide rails.

[doug72]

GBC Train Mechanical Scissors Lift: (WIP)

Now built a test rig to prove the concept is workable when driven by the GBC train secondary output.

Scissors lift driven by a crank arm mounted on a Z60 turntable with double 12/20 reduction to turn crank arm which pulls the gear racks back and forth.

Two small shock absorbers used to assist in starting the lift.

The ball input hopper will be located above the two Gear Rack housings.

View showing crank arm arrangment, gearing & shock absorbers.

Next step is to work out the gearing required to get the correct timing so train departs after scissors lift is back at the lower level.
Probably will require a one lobe train reverser.

See short video.

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Doug72

[Great Ball Pit]

Nice work doug I like the scissor lift mechanism.

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Great Ball Pit said:

Nice work doug I like the scissor lift mechanism.

Thanks,
Bevel gear driving the T/T kept on skipping so changed to worm drive.
 But its difficult using the new worm as requires a 1/2L offset to engage properly with a Z60 T/T.

So used a Z56 T/T with the old 2L worm which much easier to fit, just some bugs to sort out & then the timing to sort out.
So far tested with12 balls OK.

The 11L connecting rod was bending as the  lift started to rise so changed to a 11L beam.

Update:
Now have devised a good way to keep the new worm engaged with a Z60 T/T, supported & restrained at 4 points, will install & test  tomorrow.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Doug72

[Berthil]

Looks very promising but 2 challenges still need to be overcome.
Buffering the balls when the lift is up and keep the lift low enough after an inbox that is 10L high.
At least these were my challenges because I wanted it to be part of a GBC circuit and didn't want to add a belt to the inbox.
But of course you are free to do what you want :)

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Berthil said:

Looks very promising but 2 challenges still need to be overcome.
Buffering the balls when the lift is up and keep the lift low enough after an inbox that is 10L high.
At least these were my challenges because I wanted it to be part of a GBC circuit and didn't want to add a belt to the inbox.
But of course you are free to do what you want :)

At the moment it mounted on  base plate for ease of construction, will be able to lower once proven

The hieght at the entry to the scissor lift ball carrier is 9L at the moment - think I will be able to reduce that by 2L or 3L.
Re buffering, either a vertical wall like yours or a light weight lifting gate as used on the swing loader.
 

[Frequenzberater]

In the meantime I finished the lift and the rotary dumper. 

The dumper works well but I have some trouble with the lift. 

The 1 x 4 gear racks mounted on the lift plattform are sitting very loose on the jumper plates below. 

So they were frequently pulled out by the wagon. 

@Doug

I remember you have omitted the jumper plates and have used normal plates instead? 

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Frequenzberater said:

In the meantime I finished the lift and the rotary dumper. 

The dumper works well but I have some trouble with the lift. 

The 1 x 4 gear racks mounted on the lift plattform are sitting very loose on the jumper plates below. 

So they were frequently pulled out by the wagon. 

@Doug

I remember you have omitted the jumper plates and have used normal plates instead? 

Well done, glad you resolved your problem with the lift platform racks OK. Clearance at that point was hard to achieve.
Part of the "fun" of GBC is trouble shooting !

[Frequenzberater]

Honestly, I hate troubleshooting because of my strictly limited lego time :D 

For me, there is nothing more satisfying than a module which runs flawlessly from the first second after assembling.

But I think you got me wrong:

I have not solved the problem with the gear racks already. Right now, I am looking for a solution. Therefore my question, if its possible to exchange the jumper plates against normal plates (1 x 6 or 1 x 8 or whatever lenghts is required)?

[Berthil]

1 hour ago, Frequenzberater said:

I have not solved the problem with the gear racks already. Right now, I am looking for a solution. Therefore my question, if its possible to exchange the jumper plates against normal plates (1 x 6 or 1 x 8 or whatever lenghts is required)?

That's not possible because the gear rack needs to have a 1/2 stud offset.

What you can try is use round plates with hole. With the round plate with hole you have more points to attach the gear racks and they also tend to hold firmer.

I've gone back to the Akiyuki lift gearing, it has more jumpers for the gear racks and more gear racks. But that was not the reason I went back to the Akiyuki lift, that was mainly speed and easy of operation for the train.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Berthil

[doug72]

56 minutes ago, Frequenzberater said:

But I think you got me wrong:

I have not solved the problem with the gear racks already. Right now, I am looking for a solution. Therefore my question, if its possible to exchange the jumper plates against normal plates (1 x 6 or 1 x 8 or whatever lenghts is required)?

My mistake I thought you had sorted it.
My racks are mounted on 12L x 1L plate, with three 4L racks plus 1 x 1 tile.
The rack nearest the 24T gear overhangs by  1L.
There is just enough clearance so it does not catch on the 24T gears.

Taken a photo to show the rack layout on my module but at the moment unable to upload to Flicka due a problem on there website.

I will try to upload llater

[Frequenzberater]

On 9/29/2018 at 9:49 AM, Doug72 said:

Elevator
I have had problems with a train sometimes not leaving th elevator when at lower level after the chock is lowered.
This due to the 8T gear on axle end not engaging with the gear rack.

Now modified the rack and working OK and does not need the 1/2 stud offset, OK see image.

Thanks @Berthiland @Doug

I found your older post which I had in mind. I will give it a try. 

What is the purpose of the 5L liftarm installed above the upper 24T gear? 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Frequenzberater

[Berthil]

1 hour ago, Frequenzberater said:

What is the purpose of the 5L liftarm installed above the upper 24T gear? 

I assume to keep the train in place as it could jump of the lift if forces get too high. I did not have it on the worm gear lift by the way and worked fine (with counterweights). So same function as the 8t gears above the 24t gears but 8t gears are sometimes not enough to keep the train in place if forces get really high for some reason.

Anyway forces on the worm gear lift are higher than on the Akiyuki lift, also with correct counterweights. For me one more reason to revert to the Akiyuki lift instead of worm gear. And the 8t gears above the 24t gears hooked the train sometimes causing jerky movements. With the Akiyuki lift these are not needed.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Berthil