[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[Berthil]

Here's a better video. This is as far as I will go with the train system because these modules can be put in a circuit with other GBC's.

The orange train runs on the Lego Lithium accu pack, the yellow on the standard 6 AA batteries pack. Although the orange train has less power, I like it that the orange train runs smoother than the yellow one. I hope it can run one full event day on the Lithium accu pack so it can charge at night.

I had to limit the amplitude of the train switch. If it gets pushed too far by the loader the dumper cannot get the hook in front of the switch bar and the train keeps rotating. There one on the loader and the dumper.

Here some more pictures of the dumper:

 

[doug72]

@Berthil said "I had to limit the amplitude of the train switch. If it gets pushed too far by the loader the dumper cannot get the hook in front of the switch bar and the train keeps rotating. There one on the loader and the dumper."

I had trouble when using shock absorbers of them pushing the train off the track as it released - had to put a beam positioned on the rack side at the height of the 8t gears to prevent this.
No problem with rubber bands versions.

Also so I have shortened the train trip bars from 15 L to 13L which has helped stop the "L" trip from hanging up on the train unit.

Had my layout running now for severeal hours with just few ball escapes as dumper discharged , now fixed.

I like your demonstration set using the passing sidings module.

Does it keep up with the GBC requirement of 1 ball per second ?

[Berthil]

59 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Does it keep up with the GBC requirement of 1 ball per second ?

The passing module was developed by Akiyuki to double the amount of trains on a longer track and therefore higher ball throughput to meet the one ball per scond.
I'll test the dumper coming Sunday to see if it can keep up the ball throughput on it's own. The ball throughput in a full circuit is rarely 1 ball per second for a prolonged time, mostly only after a burst when there was a hiccup at a machine in the circuit. If the dumper can't keep up I will use the passing module to use two trains.

[dunes]

Both your setups look great and run flawlessly.

My trains sometimes stuck at elevator when releasing to the dumper and sometimes when enter the double passing module. But Ill get figure the issues out, hopefully.

In the meantime I added @Berthil's mod to the LDD and Stud.io files.

[doug72]

The elevator can be very difficult to get the setting correct - its takes a lot of trial & error.
Mine tended to get stuck on the chock which hadn't lowered enough or train stuck on them until it rode up over it and moved off with a big jolt. Finally got it set.
Had thought of using an adjustable stop to release the chocks - I'll see what i can devise.

As I needed some more balls so I thought of using some glass marbles, big mistake, elevator didn't like the extra weight and elevator kept crashed down as train left the dumper. 
Marbles now now discarded & extra balls place on my Xmas gift list.

I to have had bother with the double passing module so not used for current layout but needed once move to the loft.
There is an issue about a 1/2 stud offset on one of the racks which is mentioned in earlier post by @Jonas, mine was incorrect and once corrected works a lot better.

Once the final LDD file is made wonder if PDF instructions can be made by someone.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Doug72

[RohanBeckett]

really looking forward to doing the rotary dumper.. but just sitting back waiting for you guys (esp Doug!) to fine tune it enough! :)

 

[doug72]

31 minutes ago, RohanBeckett said:

really looking forward to doing the rotary dumper.. but just sitting back waiting for you guys (esp Doug!) to fine tune it enough! :)

 

The rotary dumper is working fine and no more fine tuning is required, three have now built by myself, @dunes & @Berthil all test run without issues.
Rubber band version works well and dumper rotation cannot get out of syncronisation unlike the cam lock system of the original Akiyuki design.
Ball collection chute is built to suit individual requirements,
Full height required to meet GBC standards or lower height if only for a train layout system.

The @dunes LDD files are done - if you hit any snags building it please get in touch.

I hope to later devise a "through" rotary dumper.

The elevator part is the hardest to get working correctly to release the train into the dumper.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

Double Reverser & Double Crossover track.

If using the LEGO Double crossover track then two switches have to be modified with rubber bands as per Akiyuki instructions.

If using the 3D printed double crossover track then NO modifications are required as each switch blade can be set independently.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Doug72

[RohanBeckett]

Cool.. Might start collecting parts... I assume I'd start by going with Akiyuki's original design/partslist.. and then going from there

@dunes I'm guessing all your recent LDD/Stud.io files are in your bricksafe folder?

Edited August 23, 2018 by RohanBeckett

[dunes]

25 minutes ago, RohanBeckett said:

Cool.. Might start collecting parts... I assume I'd start by going with Akiyuki's original design/partslist.. and then going from there

@dunes I'm guessing all your recent LDD/Stud.io files are in your bricksafe folder?

right.

https://bricksafe.com/pages/dunes/akiyuki-train

[doug72]

42 minutes ago, RohanBeckett said:

Cool.. Might start collecting parts... I assume I'd start by going with Akiyuki's original design/partslist.. and then going from there

Main additional parts required are:-
8 pce curved gear racks for the static gear ring.
1 pce Z56 turntable for correct timing.
2 pce Red rubber bands for the train release trip
Other parts can be found using the LDD file..

The three steel ballast balls are not required.

Edited August 23, 2018 by Doug72

[dunes]

On 8/21/2018 at 3:40 PM, Doug72 said:

Next project:- 
A through Rotary Dumper for the blue shuttle train, which will require a separate ball hopper wagon.!

Found a more static video on youtube about it. It might be possible to reverse engineer.

 

[Ankoku]

I love the new term @Berthil uses on his latest YouTube video: 

"Doug Mods". 

Has a certain ring to it! 

Good work!

[Berthil]

@Ankoku    Douglas focused and came up with a very good solution to make the rotary dumper reliable. I admire that.

I've seen the Rotary Car Dumper before but for my taste that's just too big without exiting visuals, although with lots of clever switches and no doubt a challenge to build. Sliding the trains over the 1x4 panels is interesting compared to the orange liftarms Akiyuki is using. I'm curious what will be displayed at Japan Brickfest 2019. Maybe Akiyuki will modify his Rotary dumper with Doug mods and show it in 2019 

[doug72]

9 hours ago, dunes said:

Found a more static video on youtube about it. It might be possible to reverse engineer.

Many thanks, a much better video than the one I found. Video already usefull as i was going to use the guides for the hopper car as per Akiyuki dumper which trains sometimes stick if parts have come loose. The top rollers should be more better for locating the ball hopper car.

Have made a start on a shorter rotating frame and a hopper car for the balls.
Will be quite a challange taking some time to work out how it functions.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

7 hours ago, Ankoku said:

I love the new term @Berthil uses on his latest YouTube video: 

"Doug Mods". 

Has a certain ring to it! 

Good work!

 

7 hours ago, Berthil said:

@Ankoku    Douglas focused and came up with a very good solution to make the rotary dumper reliable. I admire that.

I've seen the Rotary Car Dumper before but for my taste that's just too big without exiting visuals, although with lots of clever switches and no doubt a challenge to build. Sliding the trains over the 1x4 panels is interesting compared to the orange liftarms Akiyuki is using. I'm curious what will be displayed at Japan Brickfest 2019. Maybe Akiyuki will modify his Rotary dumper with Doug mods and show it in 2019 

Many thanks for your comments.
I like problem solving, it was a big part of my job as a C/Eng at sea ( now retired ).

Re Through Rotary Dumper;
I will be using 1 x 16 Track rails that have a serrated top edge for better wheel grip which will help the train seperate from the hopper car.
Looking at the video @dunes found there is quite a jerk as the train pulls away from the hopper car due to the magnetic couplings., fixable ?

Potential problems:-
How to line up tracks for each cycle and obtain partial rotation & return or go for full rotation.

@Berthil 
Re the event you are going to this weekend and displaying your rotary dumper, good luck and I hope it performs all day trouble free, wonder how many rotations it will do ?
It will be a really good test of all the modifications.

I read somewhere that Akiyuki was moving away from the the GBC Train system and only devising GBC modules now.

Doug

Edited August 24, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

20 hours ago, dunes said:

Found a more static video on youtube about it. It might be possible to reverse engineer.

Thanks the video is very usefull especially when run a 1/4 speed.

GBC Rotary Dumper (Through Type) (WIP)

I have made a start of building this version which will be used as a shuttle system and not directly linked to the Akiyuki system (except by a loader & unloader conveyors).
It uses a separate wagon with non detachable ball hopper shunted by the train unit instead of carrying it piggy back style.

I have made the rotating dumper frame shorter than that seen in the video as provided by @dunes to make for a more compact system.

GBC ball transfer wagon built and as I have run out of LEGO Panel 1 x 4 x 3 with Side Supports, I used LEGO Train Window 1 x 4 x 3 instead.
This is OK as the ball hopper uses rollers & guide rails to locate and retain the hopper wagon as the dumper rotates 180 degs. & back again.

Now the hard part, determining the gear ratio to rotate dumper through 180 degs. & back again before the train car is released.
I will be using an auto reverse gearbox to achieve the required dumper rotation cycle.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Doug72
insert correct image.

[dunes]

Nice start Doug.

But I think its a bit too short. as you see in the video after the train release there is a 1 stud push back of the wagon.

I started to make a 4 studs shorter version than the orignal. only digital atm.

Have thought about the mechanics. The rotation might be done by motor and gearbox controlled by train mechanics 

Edited August 24, 2018 by dunes

[doug72]

I,ll keep the length for now, easy to increase later if required.

Figured out the spacing for the support rollers, with tires & the 12T gear so that it meshes correctly for rotating the dumper.

Have to work out the gear reduction required to cycle the rotation

I think it all can be driven by the train motor to cycle the dumper & run the train reverser.

The horizontal discharge conveyor in the video seems to be powered from the loader.

I will be using 1 x 16L track beams with tiles to fill the gap each side of the dumper.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:14 PM, dunes said:

Nice start Doug.

But I think its a bit too short. as you see in the video after the train release there is a 1 stud push back of the wagon.

GBC Rotary Dumper (Through Type) (WIP)

Re Dumper length:
At the moment it is 16L same as the track length, but now found a way to make 20L by using 5 pce.  flexible track mounted on an under frame.
Hopper wagon retaining rails may need modifying.

========================================================

The original design of this dumper (by Yatteran) uses a lot off flat 8 x 1 tiles and 1 x 2 blocks with 2 holes to form the track for the train & hopper car to run along.

Designing with LDD means you have unlimited parts, unlike the limited range of parts I have available. Therefore I have devised an alternative track system using 1 x 16 straight rails, these have a serrated edge to give good traction - needed at the point where train detaches from the hopper wagon.

There is a slight gap between the tracks on the dumper and the linking track but the train wheels pass over the gap OK.
The transition from 1 x 16 rails onto the reverser section is also smooth.

Unlike the Akiyuki system the the trip mechanism is on the other side of the track. Undecided if use this configuration or not.

I have now built a test rig (on a studded base plate) with rotating dumper section, linking tracks and supports for train reverser track section. ( trip parts to be added later )

A compact auto change drive unit built and the next step is to work out positioning of this and the gearing required to cycle the dumper, lock rotation to line up the tracks and the train release timing.

The original design rotates through 180 degs, but I think this can be reduced as long balls fall out OK and might make gearing easier.

Final frame supports to be determined once gearing sorted.

This is going to be a lengthy process !

Image shows the short dumper

Mind the gap !

Reverser track section.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

So I ran the Rotary Dumper for 4 hours today at a small scale event and am very pleased with the overall result. It was an eyecatcher for the visiting public. A few observations of today:

• rotary timing mechanism at all times in sync!
• occasionally 3 x 3 thin liftarms do not fall in front of switch bar, half stud room more would be very good there in my setup, I will see what I can to improve without changing the mechanism itself as it works very well.
• on above mentioned train switch fault the system is easily recoverable with current timing setup, just set train switch manually depending on situation (push through for opposite direction, pullback for second cycle)
• I used the Lithium accu which ran good for 4 hours but in the end force/speed was declining and sometimes switch of letting lift go down was not engaged because train needs to push through momentarily there. A second train with Lithium pack and switch trains will solve that
• elevator remains sensitive but working okay during majority of the 4 hours, I made one small adjustment putting the upper stop of the lift a bit higher.
• I used my own design Lithium pack train with detachable ball container in case I had to switch to the backup solution with the unloader unit that lifts the container. On Elevator problems sometimes container falls of the train while train keeps on running so loader spills all balls over the train (by the way, while we may not like it, the public does). Since the Rotary Dumper works very well I will make a train with fixed container on the Lithium train.

Thanks again Doug and Dunes and good luck with the next project!

Edited August 26, 2018 by Berthil
typos

[doug72]

19 minutes ago, Berthil said:

So I ran the Rotary Dumper for 4 hours today at a small scale event and am very pleased with the overall result. It was an eyecatcher for the visiting public.
A few observations of today:
Thanks again Doug and Dunes and good luck with the next project!

Many thanks for your feedback observations, glad it worked well and that you had a good day.
Did you get a video and how many cycles do you reckon the dumper made ?
Timing sync reliability has now been well proven with your test run.

Trip bar swinging 3 x 3 thin lift arms:
Try putting the pin it swings on in the other hole, it lets it ride up on the trip bar better, can also depend on which way train is on the track, the side with the PF plug can get in the way. Shorter trip bars also help so that don't catch on the train locating lugs that ensure the 8t gear stay in mesh with the 24T gear. I cahnge them to 13L.
On one of my reversers I used a 1/2 bush to adjust to shorten the push rod to allow swing arm more rooom to drop down tothe  trip position.
The trip arm on the Yatteran dumper is different and doesn't use a 3 x 3 lift arm, need to try this on the next project.

Elevator:
Can be sensitive, works OK one day , try the next and it crashes down on first cycle and then seems to settle down and run OK.
I found that playing around with the diameter of the stop pin allows for finer adjustments, i.e, use a 1L beam over the pin.
Might be temperture affecting it - my conservatory has ranged from 35 C+  to less than 20 C over past few days so parts can expand & contract.

Batteries:
I am using rechargeable AA batteries, that seem to last quite a while but its a bind having to remove them to recharge, but when they run down I get the same problem that not enough power to lower the chocks to enter dumper or to hit the trip to lower of the elevator. I must try and see if come up with an adjustable stop for the elevator raising.

Next project
Now under way with rotating dumper, track system & hopper car completed.

Doug.

 

[Berthil]

5 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Did you get a video and how many cycles do you reckon the dumper made ?

I timed it earlier in my video, from lift entry to lift exit is 22 seconds with Lithium battery for the Rotary Dumper, good quality AA runs faster.
Loader takes almost 30 balls in one cycle when Inbox is full. Straight tracks between loader and Rotary Dumper where 5 in total today.
Today the loader could manage all balls presented in our circuit so unloading of the Rotary Dumper was also fast enough to keep up with the circuit pace.

Conclusion: Rotary dumper keeps up with 1 ball per second in a 4h event, even with slower Lithium battery.

On problems with the Rotary dumper the loader fills up quickly but this is no different from any other setup, balls keep coming of you like it or not :)

[doug72]

@Berthil elevator dropping problem

Tested my set up this morning and the elevator when lowering sometimes OK but then started dropping many times without apparent reason.

Removed elevator from layout to my work station for trouble shooting.

Found it is due to incorrect tension on two blue rubber bands, for the trip latch that keeps elevator at the top position and the other for the trip that lowers the elevator.

Also found that the exit chock does not hold the train in position and is only there to stop a train running over the edge when at upper level or during lowering.

The yellow trip arm has to have enough tension to push the train back against the vertical bar so that the 8T gears stay in correct mesh with the 24T gear so that the 8T gear engages to control lowering down the four racks. Both blue bands control provide this tension.

The blue bands have to be wrapped around one pin / ball twice to have enough tension to hold train in correct position but at same time allow the train to release the latch to lower the elevator.

Now lowering OK.

See images.

Rubber band for latch to hold elevator at upper position

Rubber band for trip to lower elevator

Train hold back lever (yellow) to keep gears engaged and chock (red) to prevent train runaway.
Note the gap at the chock that does not hold the train in position.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Doug72

[Berthil]

@Doug72, I have the same experience with the elevator and have done about the same settings and tryouts until I found a good equilibrium between all switches and rubber bands.
Looking at how everything has to work together, it's surprising it kept working for 4 hours yesterday.

Dropping is mostly when train leaves elevator too early before red switch (with the 2x2 slope) can hook. If you remove the 1x1 connector from the 3L pin at the elevator stop switch and set the red locking switch to higher it should work better.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Berthil