[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[rskamen]

I just finished (almost) 2 train units. I had to order a few 1x8 and 1x6 tiles in the Light Bluish Gray for the inside floor of the hopper. Will be a few days for the parts to arrive. Everything runs fine, no friction or binding anywhere. Motors reverse easily and the push bars move nicely. I think I did a good job of tucking in the PF cables so as not to interfere. I will know better once I get the hoppers finished and installed. I did use @Doug72 9L axle modification. Running with the standard PF AA Battery Box and M motors. I will work on @Berthil passing module. I ordered plenty of track and I have the switches on hand. I am gathering parts for the passing module, elevator, and rotary dumper.. Any detailed photos or parts lists or instructions for @Berthil counter-weight system on the elevator would be a great help. I love his design and how it functions.

Edited March 28, 2019 by rskamen
added text

[rskamen]

Where is everybody? No posts in over a week. Is this a holiday period in Europe? Finished my 2 train units and everything fits and works perfectly. Still in the process of gathering parts to build the next few modules. I now have plenty of track on hand as well.

[doug72]

18 hours ago, rskamen said:

Where is everybody? No posts in over a week. Is this a holiday period in Europe? Finished my 2 train units and everything fits and works perfectly. Still in the process of gathering parts to build the next few modules. I now have plenty of track on hand as well.

Good to hear you are making progress and awaiting parts to continue.

I have been designing a new train module to lift ball carrier on & off the train. Structure & geometry sorted - just the the drive & timing to devise.

Work is currently on hold as I am building the Akiyuki Catch & Spin GBC module now that I have finally got all the parts required.

[Berthil]

Good to hear everything works. I'm busy redesigning the Ball Factory and made very good progress but slow (means taking sections apart 6 times for rebuilds).
But also started preparing to showcase the trains together with two other GBC modules during Plastteknik Malmö beginning next month, a 2 day plastics convention and a 950km drive. I expect TLG will also be there :)

Edited April 6, 2019 by Berthil

[rskamen]

Great to hear from folks. I too am finishing obtaining the last of the parts needed for the Catch & Spin Robots. I am about 90% there. May start building anyway. I have lots of RED bricks and trying to decide to build it in RED, like I did my Ball Factory, or order the Dark Blue Gray. I guess I will eventually need lots of Dark and Light grays for all the future GBC projects I might build. Sorry if off topic. @Berthil, I am following your Ball Factory topic very closely, although I doubt I will rebuild mine. I am happy it works most of the time, and makes a great conversation piece. It still fascinates me and everyone else. I am also ready to build your revised Passing Module for the Train GBC. Back on topic :)

[rskamen]

@MajklSpajkl I just want to confirm that there is no pdf instructions for your modified Train Elevator module. Just the lxf file which I need to view in the LDD program? For some reason LDD does not run on my desktop, but it does run on my little 13" laptop. I was able to open the parts list from your io file. I am gathering the parts and will begin building this module soon. Can I use the Akiyuki pdf to get started? 

[MajklSpajkl]

@rskamen Hi, I only built the modified version with the counterweights. If I am not mistaken @dunes prepared the digital file. As much as I know, there is no pdf, no. I suggest installing stud.io - I was having issues with LDD as well but none with stud.io.

I think you can start with the original from akiyuki and then go from there. 

[doug72]

4 hours ago, rskamen said:

Can I use the Akiyuki pdf to get started? 

You should be able to follow the Akiyuki instructions up to page 35 for the main structure.

The thin 7 x 0.5 beam (yellow) is not required on page 6
The 7L beam (yellow)  / 3 x 3 tee beam with roller & axle etc are not required on page 18 if using the worm drive version.

The main modifications are on the elevating platform, with original trips and catches replaced by two simple chocks.

The counterweight system was an additional mod.

Note there are two versions of the elevator:-

1/. With worm drive.

2/. Without worm drive.

Edited April 9, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

Thank you @MajklSpajkl and @Doug72 for your quick replies and your details on the specific pages and minor mods.. I did buy the thin 7 x 0.5 beam so I have it if needed. I was thinking of going with the original lift mechanism, not the worm drive, unless someone has a convincing argument for the worm drive. I am still a few parts shy, so I cannot begin building just yet. I am awaiting a few more packages on parts that have already shipped :)

[doug72]

7 minutes ago, rskamen said:

Thank you @MajklSpajkl and @Doug72 for your quick replies and your details on the specific pages and minor mods.. I did buy the thin 7 x 0.5 beam so I have it if needed. I was thinking of going with the original lift mechanism, not the worm drive, unless someone has a convincing argument for the worm drive. I am still a few parts shy, so I cannot begin building just yet. I am awaiting a few more packages on parts that have already shipped :)

The original version by Akiyuki is hard to adjust & has a tendency allowing the elevator to suddenly drop !! - due to complex system of trips, latch and rubber bands.
Worm drive prevents the sudden drops but is slower than the geared version - which is why the counterweight solution was made to help obtain full speed required for the 1 ball per second GBC rule for events.

[rskamen]

Got it! I understand. That was a convincing argument indeed!

@Doug72 By the way, we are leaving in 2 weeks for our 65th cruise. We have many, many trans-ocean voyages.  I love being on the water and being aboard ships. I have nothing but the highest respect for your profession! Almost envious, as I spent my career in the printing industry wearing a suit and working behind a desk in executive management. I have spent almost my entire life in the boating world, owning many large yachts. 

[doug72]

10 hours ago, rskamen said:

Got it! I understand. That was a convincing argument indeed!

Re Elevator dropping problems:-

See page 9, 27/8/2018 & discussion that followed - resulting in the various mods etc.

@Berthil version uses counterweight system without the worm gear.

@dunes instruction are for the worm drive version.

@MajklSpajkl added the counterweight system.

Re Cruising: not something I would enjoy after 35 years at sea.

The last vessel I sailed on was a 350,000 DWT tanker with a single 6 cylinder engine developing 6000 hp per cylinder at 15 knots.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

@Doug72 I certainly understand your perspective on cruising. I no longer enjoy going into printing plants. But I must admit that as a passenger on a luxury cruise ship, they do take pretty good care of you. Back to Lego...thanks for the continued clarification on the worm gear system. I love the counterweight system that @Berthil did. I am hoping he can send me some more detailed photos so I can copy his work. I downloaded the Stud.io program just for this build and starting to feel my way around the program.

[rskamen]

I just completed @Berthil passing module. At first I had a problem with the train units wanting to jump ahead and not stay in the "waiting position". After some trial and error, I saw that the inside gear racks were one stud too close to the outside tracks, and not close enough to the center. Therefore the rear 8T gear of the train unit would catch the gear rack after the train unit should have been in the stopped and "waiting position". Can't believe I got this done, tested, corrected, and working. Took awhile as I had to wait on parts. I will either work on the Loader, or the Elevator next. I am getting very familiar with the Stud.io program and it has been a big help. I have no idea where I can store these completed units, no less set them up. Minor problem until my wife realizes the total scope and size of this project:)

[Berthil]

Good to read. Please note these gear racks are half stud of on their pins, could also have caused your problem.

[rskamen]

5 hours ago, Berthil said:

Good to read. Please note these gear racks are half stud of on their pins, could also have caused your problem.

That is exactly correct. It was a little hard to see the correct placement on the pdf file. I am learning. Thank you for creating/modifying this module. 

[doug72]

11 hours ago, rskamen said:

That is exactly correct. It was a little hard to see the correct placement on the pdf file. I am learning. Thank you for creating/modifying this module. 

Good to hear you are making prgress & sorting out problems.
Half Stud offset:-
Found this to be common with GBC modules, due mixing studded and stud less Technic. Also a problem when building on studded base plates.

16 hours ago, rskamen said:

 I have no idea where I can store these completed units, no less set them up. Minor problem until my wife realizes the total scope and size of this project:)

Re lack of space for GBC train layout.
I too suffer from this - had to use our conservatory to set up and test the Rotary / Elevator modules which now consigned to shelving in my Lego Room.
Eventually will be set up in my attic once it warms up !!

Here’s some images of my Lego Room with my MOCs and GBC train modules on shelves.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

Wow @Doug72, I am impressed with your Lego room and your models. I like the Triple E Container Ship. I too built the Volvo 8043. My grandkids like to play with that one. We scoop up the piles of bricks and elements from the floor after I search for a few parts. I need to take some photos and post them of my machines and Ball Factory.  These new Florida houses are built on one level. Even with 2,400 sq ft of air-conditioned space, they are "open concept" with not a lot of rooms, or walls. With 2 cars and lots of "stuff" stored in the garage, that area is not an option. What is that large yellow crane? Is it a MOC? Are there plans or parts lists available?  I'll keep building and eventually will give some of the models away to the grandkids. The studying of the projects, pursuit of parts, and building, is where the enjoyment lies.

[doug72]

23 minutes ago, rskamen said:

@Doug72What is that large yellow crane? Is it a MOC? Are there plans or parts lists available?  I'll keep building and eventually will give some of the models away to the grandkids. The studying of the projects, pursuit of parts, and building, is where the enjoyment lies.

That was my entry for the TC8 Crane contest, 3 years ago.
No instructions & the images are no longer be available on Flickr.

 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Doug72

[rskamen]

Thanks for the information. You should be very proud of that model.

[doug72]

New Train Module WIP. Progress to date.

Following the failure of building an alternative to the Akiyuki Crane loader I set out to find another way to lift the ball container on & off the train.

Side Swing Loader Module:-
I have been quietly working away on this, ensuring at each step that it functions as required before moving on the next stage.

Train enters reverser with ball carrier which slides onto the lifting arms which are resting on frame work to prevent movement as train enters.
Ball carrier is then lifted off the train & swung up & over to the loading point.

Now proven it can lift and transfer 30 balls at a time and land correctly back onto the train. Tested with both M & L motor trains.
M motor copes OK but L motor slightly faster.

Quarter gears racks are not used - instead the two swing arms are mounted on two synchronised Z56 turntables which driven by worms gears
Main problems were getting clearances for cradle for the ball carrier between the swing arms and clearance for counterweight.

Drive to these was via double 8T gears meshing with double Z24 clutch gears, but now tested with a single 8T /24T clutch gear combination and works OK. Clutch gear is for over run protection.

The train reversers uses 72:1 reduction with a single lobe rotor.

Next step is to build the reversing unit for the swing arms and synchronise it with the train releasing and to allow for a short dwell time at loading point.
A snap over with bob weight will be used to change the drive direction.
The train reverser uses an interrupter gear that allows the drive to reversing rotor to be stopped so that timing can be adjusted without the need to pull gears apart.

Final stage is to build the loading hopper.

 

 

 

 

K

Edited April 16, 2019 by Doug72
Image file ID removed

[rskamen]

@Doug72 That is an impressive piece of engineering and build. I am almost ready to start the  Akiyuki train reverser module, with the rubber band mods instead of the spring loaded original. Hopefully the postman brings the few needed parts I ordered. Once in hand, I think it is a relatively quick build. I am awaiting, among many other parts, the simple 1 x 2 technic brick with 2 holes. That is how bare my parts cupboard is. As I order parts, I do order a lot of extras for inventory and future builds. I built my Ball Machine in almost all RED. I am learning that most GBCs are built in Black, Dark Gray and Light Gray. Therefore I will be buying only those colors for inventory purposes.

[doug72]

2 hours ago, rskamen said:

I am awaiting, among many other parts, the simple 1 x 2 technic brick with 2 holes.

I was very short of them when first I started building the train GBC modules but have a good stock of them now. 
Some 1 x 1 bricks with one hole are also useful and are required for the through module.

Re new module, auto reverser for the swing arms to build next and install to replace the temporary drive shaft used to test & prove it can handle a full load of 30 balls per trip.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Doug72

[doug72]

Side Swing Loader. Progress has been very  sl o w !

Concept works but it is proving impossible to find a way to synchronise the train reverser with the swing arms between loading point & train.

Parts that function OK:
Train arrives with empty ball hopper and enters the lift cradle and starts to power the train reverser and the swing lift arms
Arms swing up & over to loading point OK.

Interrupter clutch installed to allow easy hand adjustment for the timing the train release with loaded ball hopper.

Timing:
Main problem is train reverser needs to be slowed down by 2:1 to allow time for swing arms to travel back and forth.

Trip rotor has one lobe with 72:1 reduction but really need 144:1

To double the speed of the swing arms means it can only carry less ball per cycle, at present able to lift 30 balls per cycle in about 1 min.

Swing arms reverser:
So far have been unable to get get reliable synchronisation of the swing arms with the train reverser.

Has anyone got any ideas to try out before I abandon this MOC ?

Have we reached the limit of new Train GBC modules or does anyone have ideas for new ones ?

Edited April 29, 2019 by Doug72

[Berthil]

If you say it's impossible it is impossible :)

I think we, and especially you, have already done a great job here, specifically with the rotary dumper. I will be taking it to an international non LEGO related event next week and use it in a loop with two trains to bring balls back from end to start in a chain of 4 GBCs. Next to that I have the narrow track layout with scissor lift loader to place as a GBC module in chain of GBCs for LEGO World. So I'm already very happy with what we have achieved and not looking for more train modules. Akiyuki himself has abandoned the train system and never got beyond his 'debut' layout despite all the work he has put in with train version 1 and 2 modules.

If anything new of train loading I could imagine two parallel container loading stations where the train would return an empty one and then loop to fetch the full one and of course ball stream would be redirected accordingly. With two trains running and passing module this would overcome slow loading time issues. So train arrives with empty container at left side and empty container gets lifted up from train after switch engages at highest point to redirect ball stream to this container.  Train without container leaves and get full container on other side to bring to unloader module. Meanwhile other train comes back from unloader module to get rid of his empty container to empty container filling spot. Just a short thought with huge impact on free spare time :)

Edited April 29, 2019 by Berthil