[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Jonas said:

Thank you Doug.

I watched your video earlier but there is no detail look at the rack housing there. Therefore I was not sure. And as I wrote, a Studio,io simulation did not work in this case.(I could not align the rack part and the housing part to fit together.) I also watched official instructions for the models where this rack piece is used and noticed that they always drive the rack by the new worm gear.

Can,t ,t take photo as I removed the rack. I will make mock up & post it later today.

[doug72]

This has a little bit slack but it should work in the space you have. Best to drive it using a worm gear.

Edited November 28, 2020 by Doug72

[Jonas]

Thank you very much for the pictures. Doug.

I need that 3x3 profile because in its center there will be a longitudial axle to drive an end effector.

Now I know that the new rack is a piece to consider when making the next BL purchase.

[doug72]

2 hours ago, Jonas said:

Thank you very much for the pictures. Doug.

I need that 3x3 profile because in its center there will be a longitudial axle to drive an end effector.

Now I know that the new rack is a piece to consider when making the next BL purchase.

Great, might be worthwhile creating a new topic of what you are building.

[doug72]

Problem Connecting bucket part to large track links.

Recently after prolonged testing of my Train Incline GBC ball loader I noticed that the bucket connection was becoming loose from the track links & affecting timing & clearence from other parts. This due to the LEGO Technic Hole with Pin (15100 / 65487) rotates freely in the track link hole.

Initially I glued the pins in place but as this is not Lego legal sought a legal solution.

 Now found a solution by using 5L thin beams. The hole with pin passes through a 5L thin beam and then the track link.
The end lip on the pin part is now tight against the underside of the link and the connectioin is now tight.

Just had to re-postition the input box by 1/2L

Edited December 2, 2020 by Doug72

[Ethan M]

I have started working on this train module and have it working well. I have built the two reverser units with the modifications from @dunes. I have also built the train cart with the modifications from @Doug72. I have ordered the parts to complete the loader and the unloader and am waiting on them to arrive. I appreciate all of the information and discussion in this thread. I would like to become an active participant in it. This forum has been of much help when I have needed assistance on different items including this one to be rather specific.  
 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Ethan M
Minor Grammatical Problem

[doug72]

8 hours ago, Ethan M said:

I have started working on this train module and have it working well. I have built the two reverser units with the modifications from @dunes. I have also built the train cart with the modifications from @Doug72. I have ordered the parts to complete the loader and the unloader and am waiting on them to arrive. I appreciate all of the information and discussion in this thread. I would like to become an active participant in it. This forum has been of much help when I have needed assistance on different items including this one to be rather specific.  
 

 

Great to hear you are having success, any problems just ask. There is a MOD for the unloader replacing the two shock aborbers with simple counter weights arms. 

I have made a re-designed stepper loader & unloader and will be making a video of them running today.

Doug72

[doug72]

Video of New Improved GBC Train Loader & Unloader

1st layout:- Failed
This used a track double crossover & a double reverser so that two trains could run but due to track lengths being different I could not get the circuit to work as train unloaded into the loader unit to early before the train to be loaded had arrived resulting in balls escaping every where.

2nd Attempt:- using a single train with a Vee Reverser.
Successful after some tweaking to stop balls escaping from the unloader as they discharged into the chute.
Able to carry 30 balls in train car hopper and ciruit time was 1min.

 

 

3rd Attempt:- yet to be tried.
This will use a the train delay unit which had to be modified slightly as it needs to have some resistance in the output to make it work.
Might be possible to use a passing train module.

For this I have used a wheel with tire which gives enough resistance to make it delay work correctly.
As the track layout will be longer due to the double X-over I will have to move from our dining table down on the floor !!

Modified Train Delay unit:

Edited December 7, 2020 by Doug72
Missing video added

[Ethan M]

On 12/7/2020 at 4:05 AM, Doug72 said:

Great to hear you are having success, any problems just ask. There is a MOD for the unloader replacing the two shock aborbers with simple counter weights arms. 

I have made a re-designed stepper loader & unloader and will be making a video of them running today.

Doug72

I am planning on using the original unloader to start. I might need assistance with substituting the shock absorbers with counterweights though. I will have to wait and see how it operates before I make that decision. 

[nychase]

OK  I have a loaded question here.  

I am jumping back in after a bit of time off from Lego's and noticed these Version 2 trains (or at least thats what most of this topic is about).  I originally collected parts for Blakbird/Courbet's Version 1 train full setup (but didn't build) and Im gathering from some of the people that built it that it wasn't the most reliable (hence Akiyuki himself starting over).  So....Do I part that out and start over with Version 2?    It should be mentioned I'm no stranger to doing this...on my most recent MOC collection of parts (to build other people's custom MOCS) 4 of the MOC's were "rebuilds" (Berthil's ball factory, Cup to Cup v1, and two RoscoPC F1 cars...yes Berthil, you and I have very similar tastes).  You can see why MOCplans existed years ago.

Question 2, and perhaps the bigger question....unless I'm missing it, is there a single entry that organizes all the the MOD's to akiyuki V2 trains implementing all of the improvements to let it run full time?   Most of these Mods are improvement OVER akiyukis published instructions correct?

Thanks all

[Berthil]

6 minutes ago, nychase said:

4 of the MOC's were "rebuilds" (Berthil's ball factory, Cup to Cup v1, and two RoscoPC F1 cars...yes Berthil, you and I have very similar tastes). 

Nice :)
If you are planning on building the modules listed in this thread then part out and Train type 2 is the way to go.
I've published a rechargeable Lithium type train BI, I have run these on events for multiple days without problems. Other than that I do not know of building instructions for modified type 2 trains, only mods on the original BI from Akiyuki like you mentioned. 

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-22734/BrickPolis/akiyuki-train-unit-rechargeable/

[doug72]

44 minutes ago, Berthil said:

Nice :)
If you are planning on building the modules listed in this thread then part out and Train type 2 is the way to go.
I've published a rechargeable Lithium type train BI, I have run these on events for multiple days without problems. Other than that I do not know of building instructions for modified type 2 trains, only mods on the original BI from Akiyuki like you mentioned. 

https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-22734/BrickPolis/akiyuki-train-unit-rechargeable/

This forum lists all the Type 2 train system MODs.

There are some minor mods for the original Type 2 train car, replacing the 3 part axle with a single axle & a geared down version.
There is also a MOD using an L motor for increased power.

See index on page 1.

The main problem now is getting hold of the old type reversing switch with the small black pole reverser switch.
The later versions can with care be modified so that  it freely changes over.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Doug72

[nychase]

23 hours ago, Doug72 said:

The main problem now is getting hold of the old type reversing switch with the small black pole reverser switch.
The later versions can with care be modified so that  it freely changes over.

Are you just talking about the pole reversers with the black switch?  Turns out I have 11 of them sitting here (they were never used in most models as the battery box could do almost the same thing) so thats good.  

So I'm clear then, basically everything here are mods to akiyukis real type two train system and the instructions he published 2 years ago.  So I could start by building that setup and then make the mods after I realize the same flaws?    

Since Akiyuki published the .mpd has anyone updated them with all the mods?....@berthil for some reason this strikes me as something you would have already done.   From there its easy(easier) to make instructions and I prefer to build from the CAD file anyway when possible (if its stepped).

[Berthil]

@nychase first post made by Doug gives you an overview what has been done. Up to you what you want to make and what not.
Type 2 train and belt loader/lift unloader instructions from Akiyuki are fine unless you want to make changes needed in your final setup.

Most mods have been made on the Rotary Dumper as the original one from Akiyuki does not work well.
There is a digital file for the Rotary dumper in the first post but no steps. I was planning on making a building instruction of my version but didn't get to it yet, a lot of work.
My version uses the Akiyuki lift for correct speed (so no worm gears), own bottom locking mechanism and counterweights.
Worked very well on events in my total setup with my rechargeable train.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Berthil

[doug72]

15 minutes ago, nychase said:

Are you just talking about the pole reversers with the black switch?  Turns out I have 11 of them sitting here (they were never used in most models as the battery box could do almost the same thing) so thats good.  

So I'm clear then, basically everything here are mods to akiyukis real type two train system and the instructions he published 2 years ago.  So I could start by building that setup and then make the mods after I realize the same flaws?    

Since Akiyuki published the .mpd has anyone updated them with all the mods?....@berthil for some reason this strikes me as something you would have already done.   From there its easy(easier) to make instructions and I prefer to build from the CAD file anyway when possible (if its stepped).

Yes they are vey hard to find and are expensive. Some sellers show an image with small black switch but actually its the later version without. I had return one as wrong type sent.

re instructions, there are some made and the links are on the index page, I have no idea how to make them, there plenty of images on  this forum.

The original rotary dumper can be very hard to get it running, that’s why I made MOD version which easy to align & run consistently.

Any queries just ask.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

Attempt 3 with two trains running:- Successful - Video

Just managed to fit the layout on the dining table !

After much adjustments and tweaking I have got the 2 train cars running together to load & Unload 30 balls per round trip.
Two L motor cars are used with a double reverser & a double cross over track.

Tried using the dwell module but had problems with the L motor train cars jamming or over riding the stops.
Instead I have synchronised the the unloader module with the loading module but adjusting the train release point after balls are loaded.

Overall View:

Overhead View:

Had some issues with unloading unit when train car with loader ball hopper did not fully entering the lifting frame and engage with the 24T gear to run the lift.
Solved by adding gear racks and guides on last piece of track before the unloading module, see image.

Additional gear racks & guides for unloader.

Video.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Doug72

[9v system]

very nice @Doug72 i like how you even keeped the black ring thing on the end of the unloader as  well

[doug72]

5 hours ago, 9v system said:

very nice @Doug72 i like how you even keeped the black ring thing on the end of the unloader as  well

Thanks for your comment.

Re Black ring, I assume you mean the square black ring that hooks over the loader inbox.

The unloader is designed to connect to any standard GBC in box in line or a right angles.

The slight jolt seen in the video, as the train car enters the additional gear rack/ guide section has been eliminated by removing the first sections of rack and replacing them with a 4 x 1 tile.

Pity about the GBC Contest being put back until next year !

Will have to think up a new module now.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Doug72
Added content

[davec_nc]

Since I've benefited so much from many of the postings in this forum, I thought I'd share my own realization of the Akiyuki train system. 

My track layout lets the train visit 4 stations in order without requiring the any movement of the train track switches while it's running.

The units include:

1) Loading unit (Akiyuki original design)

2) Unloading unit (Akiyuki original design)

3) Through-type unit connected to Zig-zag lift (Akiyuki designs with customization to link them together)

4) Elevator with rotary dumper (modified)

 - Elevator is the worm screw version by Doug72

 - Rotary dumper is my own modification of the original Akiyuki design to remove the cam lock system. To avoid buying more large ring gears, I used identical turntables for both rotating the dumper and for running the reverser unit. This way I was able to use identical gear ratios for both so that they were synchronized. There is only 1 lobe on the reverser trigger: a single rotation of the dumper corresponds to single rotation of the reverser trigger. 

5) The train unit works with the standard battery box, but the elevator drains the batteries very quickly because I didn't include counterweights. So I modified a standard battery box to hold a LiPo rechargeable battery using suggestions I found online (I didn't want to spend $80 for the official LEGO rechargeable). The decreased weight and increased power of the LiPo battery makes a huge difference in both speed and battery life before recharging. 

(Unfortunately, the ceiling wasn't quite tall enough to capture the entire layout from overhead, but hopefully you can see enough to get the idea)

 

 

 

 

 

[Ethan M]

I have a small update regarding the train module. I am still waiting on the items I need to arrive for the loader and unloader in general. I managed to get both reversers working with the shock absorbers instead of using the rubber bands as a substitute for them.

[doug72]

On 12/15/2020 at 2:17 AM, Ethan M said:

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

New Improved GBC Train Loader & Unloader (Update)

Double cross-over track. I have changed all 4 settings for the track switches to the other position.

This switches the train cars to the other track. This gives much better run timing.

The loaded train car now enters the double reverser on the reverser track that releases that train first.

This means it can unload in to the loader inbox before that is set in motion when the empty car arrives.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Doug72

[davec_nc]

2 hours ago, Doug72 said:

Nice set up, takes up a lot of space.
I don’t have room to do that inside my house !

Re Rotary Dumper:

Runs very smoothly. Very good MOD using Z56 turntable instead of double gear racks.
I see you are using the older type 8T gears, if you have them the new stronger 8T gears are better.
Can you post a close iup mage up of the Z56 t/t end showing the support structure.

Re  Dumper Reverser:
Shocks or rubber bands both work, my initial MOD used shocks but did prove hard to source them. Rubber bands also a lot cheaper !

What are the two yellow drums on the end of the shock absorber trip arm ?

Elevator:
I would suggest adding counterweights which help balance the load.

re Batteries:

I use rechargable but its a bind when they have to be romoved and replaced. Do you any more info where to get the ones you use that can be recharged in situ.

Re Through Unit:
 How did you get the dwell time long enough to load the balls ?

I have dismantled mine now as trains kept on hanging or over riding the 1st chock. Also could only get 5 secs delay.
 

I tried different layouts, but this was the smallest I was able to come up with that visited all 4 stations sequentially and allowed the stations to be close enough to transfer the balls from one station to the next.

Below is a picture of where the rotating chassis connects to the main structure. It plugs right into the support tower in the original Akiyuki design. 

I used old wheel hubs I had in my collection for the the shock absorber trip arm (wheel with split axle hole 3482). I tried other variants, but found that this was more reliable. 

I had to change the gearing on the through-unit to slow it down. I added an 8:24 gear reduction right after the 24T gear that is driven by the train, I changed the 20:12 bevel gears to 12:12, and I changed the worm gear to a standard 2L worm driving a 24T gear. (I have disassembled it already, but I'll see if I can find a frame of a video which shows the gearing).

I originally used standard rechargeable batteries, but they would die very quickly and it was a pain to change them. I modified the inside of the battery box to accept a LiPo battery (https://www.amazon.com/TATTU-11-1V-450mAh-Battery-Multirotor/dp/B072PPRPRN). The end of the second video I posted has a picture of the components I used. In order to recharge it, I still have to remove one of the two sliding plates on the battery box to connect the charge cable of the battery to the charger. But the one on the top is not hard to remove.

 

[doug72]

Thanks for the info. 
I am going to re-build the through unit and adjust the time delay using step down gearing.

The problem I had was the first chock getting stuck in the hold position.

[Ethan M]

I have a minor correction to what I stated beforehand. The shock absorbers do not seem to be performing as well as when rubber bands that were substituted. I have drawn this conclusion after some testing of the units in general.