[GBC] Akiyuki Train System: Type 2 mods and improvements

[MajklSpajkl]

Hmmmm, I guess I won't be applying the worm gear then ,I will try to find a possible "legal" way to implement the worm gear as well. Nonetheless - great solution.

 

Regarding "Two simple chocks to hold train in place for raising & lowering":

My train used to get stuck od the edges of the connector holding the freely rorating 8t gears, so I replaced it with 3 of these connected with 2  (+0+) halfstud liftarms. Due to the round shape of the pin connectors the train doesn't jam anymore.

Best regards.

[doug72]

The 3D printed worm case is very usefull in tight places. Pity Lego doesn't make something similar.
There are other lego worm gear cases but for studded use or too large and don't acept 8T gears only 24 or 40 T gears

This mod is built within the existing Akiyuki framing and probably to be optomised to give more space. I only removed the redundant trips etc.

An improved frame should be able to use a Lego legal worm drive, I will see if can figure something out.

Re Chocks,
Mine also used to stick or jump over them. New ones provide smooth passage as train runs over them in the other direction.

New chocks work well with easy lowering to release the train.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Doug72

[dunes]

maybe like this Doug ?

[doug72]

1 hour ago, dunes said:

maybe like this Doug ?

WOW , thats just what I need to replace the 3D printed worm case.

I been trying for past 2 hours trying to come up with something & not suceeding.

I'll build it soon, once proven will try and speed up the elevator a bit.

The simplified system seems to be reliable without any hiccups so far.

Many thanks  for your input.

Edited September 21, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

4 hours ago, dunes said:

maybe like this Doug ?

That might work, but I hope the gears would not skip under load because they are not braced as worm gear usually is.

Well, as promised, I was trying the whole evening as well and here's what I've come up with.

I used exit stopper only on one side because on the other side it was rubbing against the tan 12t bewel gear.

I modified the bottom a bit as well. I reverted to half thick beam for stopper because the full stud thick was getting stuck in te lifting gears axle.

So far it performs really well but I think any gearing up would cause the motor to stall. The original gear ratio from Akiyuki was 6:1, with this mod is 24:1. I've tried reducing it to 8:1 (8/24, 24/8, 1/8-worm) but it couldn't even lift an empty cart. There are some more photos and bigger  ones here.

Now, I can't really decide whether to use original lift or this one which I find a bit to slow. If the original is really so unreliable as you guys say it is, I guess for running it on longer period, the worm gear variant would be a better choice. What do you think?

To finish up, here's how my rotary dumper looks:

I made the ball exit to the right, as I need such setup for my layout. Shifting it to the left would be rather simple, a little bit more work and aditional bricks to make them run strait. I've narrowed the opening on top with an additional beam on each side.

 

Regarding the falling bricks from the baskets, here's my idea, but haven't tested it yet because, I still need to build the "regular" dumper. I thought more studs should hold better and for now they do.

Oh, and my loading module as well...

Now that's really it, the hour is late :-) Good night and I apologise for rather poor photos.

Best regards and thanks again for this great and very helpfull topic.

Miha

 

[doug72]

7 hours ago, MajklSpajkl said:

That might work, but I hope the gears would not skip under load because they are not braced as worm gear usually is.

Well, as promised, I was trying the whole evening as well and here's what I've come up with.

I used exit stopper only on one side because on the other side it was rubbing against the tan 12t bewel gear.

I modified the bottom a bit as well. I reverted to half thick beam for stopper because the full stud thick was getting stuck in te lifting gears axle.

So far it performs really well but I think any gearing up would cause the motor to stall. The original gear ratio from Akiyuki was 6:1, with this mod is 24:1. I've tried reducing it to 8:1 (8/24, 24/8, 1/8-worm) but it couldn't even lift an empty cart. There are some more photos and bigger  ones here.

Now, I can't really decide whether to use original lift or this one which I find a bit to slow. If the original is really so unreliable as you guys say it is, I guess for running it on longer period, the worm gear variant would be a better choice. What do you think?

 

Now that's really it, the hour is late :-) Good night and I apologise for rather poor photos.

Best regards and thanks again for this great and very helpfull topic.

Miha

 

Well you beat me - I have still to try the @dunes solution.
Yes agree about bracing the 8T gear, thats why I asked Efferman to design the 3D printed gear box that that supports worm & gear (8T & 24T).
I have used it many times on my crane builds etc. and takes up minimal space compared to other solutions.

Your build looks great and colourful, I,m using up my stock of grey beams !!
Your photos are OK.

Re Speed: I tried the 24:8 gears but elevator would rise a bit then stop but I had weak batteries in at the time.
Going to test the 20:12 step up gears today - which will speed up worm rotation by 1.66r.

My first idea was for using four worm drives directly engaging with each column gear rack , but meant using 32L axles and finding a away to keep worm on the rack as elevator moved.
Also difficult to get a drive path to them so, quickly gave up that idea.

Had no problems with the stopper hitting the 12T bevel gear but when my elevator reaches the lower position I get a momentary slight noise until train exists - still investigating this.

Re this GBC Train System thread & discussion,
It has proved very usefull by @Berthil to suggest making a seperate topic, as the train system was very hard to follow on the General Akiyuki GBC topic.

Has provided very usefull interaction from everyone that has contributed so far.

Doug

Edited September 22, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

18 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Well you beat me - I have still to try the @dunes solution.
Yes agree about bracing the 8T gear, thats why I asked Efferman to design the 3D printed gear box that that supports worm & gear (8T & 24T).
I have used many times on my crane builds etc. and takes up minimal space compared to other solutions.

Well, I hope you know it wasn't about who's first, I just wanted to add something to the thread as I was only reaping its fruits :-) And yes Effe makes wonderful "missing" pieces in #d but somehow for now I am trying to avoid them even though I am not a LEGO purist at all.

21 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Your build looks great and colourful, I,m using up my stock of grey beams !!
Your photos are OK.

Thank you very much:-) Most of my grey beams has been used up as well, therefore so much blue...

28 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Re Speed: I tried the 24:8 gears but elevator would rise a bit then stop but I had weak batteries in at the time.
Going to test the 20:12 step up gears today - which will speed up worm rotation by 1.66r.

I think I'll try 20:12 pair as well, I don't think 24:8 would work OK even with full batteries, at leasr for me it didn't on one of the first setups which might have had other issues as well so I abandonded it.

30 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

Had no problems with the stopper hitting the 12T bevel gear but when elevator reaches the lower position I get a momentary slight noise until train exists - still investigating this.

True, there was no actual problem as the bewel gear slides nicely below the stopper and only for a short period of time. The problem was that it didn't tuck all the way down as the bewel gear was preventing it to lower straight with the rest of the tracks. Cart struggled over that small bump and rattled over it so I just removed it....it still stops the cart very well.

 

Best regards!

[doug72]

@MajklSpajkl said: I modified the bottom a bit as well. I reverted to half thick beam for stopper because the full stud thick was getting stuck in te lifting gears axle.

I have not fitted this in my version as train chocks (stopper) holds train OK throughout the lifting.

[MajklSpajkl]

6 minutes ago, Doug72 said:

I have not fitted this in my version as train chocks (stopper) holds train OK throughout the lifting.

Silly me  Of course they do, I removed it now and it works good

No luck with 20:12 though. Well, it lifts, but motor struggles even without the bucket on top. I'll stick to 16:16 pair.

[doug72]

12 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

Silly me  Of course they do, I removed it now and it works good

No luck with 20:12 though. Well, it lifts, but motor struggles even without the bucket on top. I'll stick to 16:16 pair.

Just tried it with my build and works faster.
Takes 11 secs per lift and 8 secs per descent without ball basket.
With ball basket & 28 balls, 12 secs up, 8 secs down.
Make sure gears have little bit if free axial play on all the axles.
Train has fully charge batteries.

Re slight monentry noise as train exits at lower level:
Now traced to the two free spinning 8T gears used to ensure train 8T gears fully engage with the elevator 24T drive gears.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Doug72

[MajklSpajkl]

OMG @Doug72, this is fantastic time. Mine takes 25 second up (fully loaded) and 18 seconds down in 16:16 setup. Well the batteries are not full as well.

I'll try to loosen all the axles again. I am affraid  that significant friction is between the worm gear and the connectors bracing it... will try some lube as well (dry ptfe spray from WD40) And I need to try full batteries as well. 

[doug72]

26 minutes ago, MajklSpajkl said:

OMG @Doug72, this is fantastic time. Mine takes 25 second up (fully loaded) and 18 seconds down in 16:16 setup. Well the batteries are not full as well.

I'll try to loosen all the axles again. I am affraid  that significant friction is between the worm gear and the connectors bracing it... will try some lube as well (dry ptfe spray from WD40) And I need to try full batteries as well. 

Difference probably because I still have the 3D printed worm gear box installed in the elevator,  not built the @dunes version yet.
I know its not Lego legal but it makes a huge difference.

[doug72]

This is the smallest & closest I have managed to construct to the 3D printed worm gear box.

Its 3 x 2 x 5 and well braced. Fits in between frame OK.

Just need to determine how the angle drive will connect at that end - other end easy.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Doug72
Correct image added

[MajklSpajkl]

Looking good! I kinda settled with the speed I got. With fresh batteries it takes 19 seconds to rise with fully loaded cart. Well, I'll see how it works in the whole setup.

[dunes]

1 hour ago, Doug72 said:

Just need to determine how the angle drive will connect at that end - other end easy.

 or 

[doug72]

1 hour ago, Doug72 said:

Just need to determine how the angle drive will connect at that end - other end easy.

Mounting for angle drive at worm gearbox end now done and gives good support for the output axle

ps, didn’t,t see your above post before posting this ! Thanks for the other possible solutions.

Edited September 22, 2018 by Doug72

[doug72]

@dunes built your second version of the worm gear casing using the 10197 beam w/2 axles 90 deg. It’s the best with a good rigid connection to the angle drive and the supporting  frame for the 8T & worm gears., making for a compact sub unit.

I will use this when I rebuild the elevator platform to remove some redundent parts.

Doug

Edited September 22, 2018 by Doug72

[dunes]

nice Doug

Im ready for doing the LDD file xD 

[MajklSpajkl]

1 hour ago, Doug72 said:

@dunes built your second version of the worm gear casing using the 10197 beam w/2 axles 90 deg. It’s the best with a good rigid connection to the angle drive and the supporting  frame for the 8T & worm gears., making for a compact sub unit.

I will use this when I rebuild the elevator platform to remove some redundent parts.

Doug

Thank you @dunes! I went for the same version as Doug as it is indeed so much better than the one I've come up. My version was just too messy and all the rotating axle had bracing function as well, which added a lot more friction. Everything runs much smoother, but both my train carts still struggled in 20:12 configuration, so I am final at 16:16. The lifting time of full cart was practically the same at both gear combos + releasing the cart on the way up was much worse on 20:12 combo. I forgot to mention that I have a full height of the lift as Akiyuki and not the lower version as Doug. My times are around 17 secs down empty and about 24up full.

Thanks again for sharing your ideas.

Best regards.

 

[dunes]

You are welcome.

Currently working on 3 different projects ( 42055 BWE MK 288, Grove 6400 and this here). I've been very creative these days.

[doug72]

12 hours ago, MajklSpajkl said:

My times are around 17 secs down empty and about 24up full.

Elevator speed
I have been doing some comparisons  of my elevator speed to yours.

Taking into account the different heights raised and gears combinations used.

Mine take 12 secs to raise by 5 x 4L racks using 20:12 step up gearing. With 16:16 gears would be  20 secs.

To raise mine by 7 x 4L racks = 17 secs. with 20;12 gears. With16:16 gearing that would increase to 28 secs.

So yours at 24 secs is good.

Hopefully my maths is correct !!

=========================================

Re Rubber bands.

Carried out the mod to allow motor PF cable space & fitted recharged batteries but started to have bother with my trains sometimes not reversing.

Check all PF cables were not fouling the trip bars and that the PF switch was moving freely but no joy.
So used two reversers each end of a short section of plain track to find out why.

The rubber bands seem to have lost tension slightly, as they are under slight tension even once the trigger arm is released.

Intend in future to remove rubber bands from reversers when not in use to give them time to recover.
Rotary dumper not affected as bands are slack until trip lever sets the trigger.

Now fitted two rubber bands which helps increase the trigger arm force.

Doug

Edited September 23, 2018 by Doug72

[Courbet]

For anyone who wants to easily try Doug's version of Akiyuki's Rotary Dumper, I have made building instructions of my own version, which is basically @Doug72 's rotary part (as modelized by @dunes ) mated with an adapted Akiyuki base.

Comparing to the inventory of the original Rotary Dumper, apart from a small bunch of common Technic parts 8 more yellow curved gear racks and 8 more 20t gears are needed and above all a 56t Turntable (60t is not an option!).

https://bricksafe.com/files/Courbet/akiyuki-project/gbc-train-est/GBC_Rotary_Dumper_Akiyuki_Doug.pdf

Edited September 23, 2018 by Courbet

[dunes]

great @Courbet

May I ask what program u used to create these instruction?

[Courbet]

Just now, dunes said:

May I ask what program u used to create these instruction?

MLCad then LPub3D

[9v system]

Just now, Courbet said:

MLCad then LPub3D

hi there do you have the sub models for the strainwave gearing?

thanks