James Bond 2018

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, nikhkin said:

The Creator Expert sets have a recommended age of 16+.

The Bond films are typically rated as 12 or 12A. A number of the older films (including Goldfinger, which is where a lot of us are suspecting the set is from) are rated PG.

Other sets have fallen into the same age ratings. For example, The Big Bang Theory is rated 12 in the UK.

Preferably though, I'd wish for Lego to keep sets aimed towards an older age group to still remain age appropriate in their source material for those falling below that target range. Complex construction techniques should not act as a license to therefore utilize questionable source material.

[Fuppylodders]

I don't understand people's opinion that TLG has to stay aimed at kids in its entirety. It is first and foremost, a business. To make money. Kids only have a certain amount of accessible money. Essentially, it's the parents that buy it for their kids. 

This is just another of their attempts to branch out to a wider audience and gather more profit. That doesn't stop them from still being capable of legitimately keeping family values and supplying kids toys. It doesn't in any way taint them. 

Business have to evolve in order to remain competitive, and adapt with the times. 

Even suggesting that James Bond is verging on making TLG lose the child/family friendly values is, in my opinion, absurd and archaic. As are some of the older James bond films (archaic) in their sexism and the roles. Which, as time has gone by, are being addressed more and more as the newer films come out and society influences the direction the films take. 

Lego is also about education and has its own struggles with societies 'norms' constantly evolving. I think James Bond is a good licence to do which touches upon how a specific licence can evolve to become more family friendly and acceptable to a lower age audience. Whatever the set ends up being, James Bond is still just a 'good guys v bad guys' theme, with the usual love story involved. It doesn't promote drugs or bad behaviour in such a way as themes such as breaking bad does. Its a typical action film with fight scenes, which is what enables the tension and fight scenes between the characters. I didn't watch violent films when I was young, nothing that I remember out of the ordinary. Yet when my good and bad minifigs met up, I made them hit each other. Blame he-man and skeletor, teenage mutant ninja turtles etc for that. Yet they're aimed at kids. The language isn't even that bad, I was brought up knowing which words were wrong. I knew not to say them because of my parents bringing me up to know right from wrong. 

If TLG want to reach out to an older generation which gives us more variation and something for us adults to enjoy nostalgia with every once in a while, then I say good for them!

Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot and prevent such rewards falling upon us in the form of a James bond centred set aimed at the adults who provide TLG with the profits from the money given to them by the set's bought for children who benefit with a toy which provides education and mind stimulus as much as it does enjoyment. 

[x105Black]

On 6/14/2018 at 6:36 PM, Tariq j said:

I'd love to get the Lotus Espirit from the Spy Who Loved Me, it would be nice to get at least one car from each Bond. The DB10, the Vanquish, etc. I hope they throw in some villains as well. 

That would be a really nice car.  I'd love it in System / minifigure scale.

On 6/14/2018 at 6:20 PM, J4ck said:

I don’t mind James Bond but I concerned about Lego and their brand values and losing their connection with their main target market - Children.

On 6/14/2018 at 10:55 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Agreed, as I think Lego should stay away from most (if not all) adult-centric media, specifically of the nature that the James Bond franchise touches upon. Everything that TLG produces should be based upon age appropriate source material, even if a particular set is recommended for older builders.

On 6/15/2018 at 4:28 AM, Agent Kallus said:

One the one hand I agree with you on this and I don't want lego to stray from the light, on the other hand it could open the door to other franchises that I'd love to see like Elder scrolls, (maybe for TES VI if they can score a 15 or lower rating).

I just flat out disagree.  I would love to see LEGO branch out and give more attention to more mature themes and ideas.  A license like this is a good way to approach that.  As far as anyone can tell, adults are currently a relatively small part of the audience.  Products like these could increase the number of AFOLs, which is a part of the market that is underserved by their company.  It would be much like creating Friends and Elves to appeal to girls and thereby increase the number of feminine LEGO fans and buyers.  I don't think that doing this will in any way impact their standing as a company that provides family friendly products.  I would even be OK with products deemed 'too adult' for the store shelves only appearing for sale online.

51 minutes ago, Fuppylodders said:

I don't understand people's opinion that TLG has to stay aimed at kids in its entirety. It is first and foremost, a business. To make money. Kids only have a certain amount of accessible money. Essentially, it's the parents that buy it for their kids. 

This is just another of their attempts to branch out to a wider audience and gather more profit. That doesn't stop them from still being capable of legitimately keeping family values and supplying kids toys. It doesn't in any way taint them. 

Business have to evolve in order to remain competitive, and adapt with the times. 

Even suggesting that James Bond is verging on making TLG lose the child/family friendly values is, in my opinion, absurd and archaic. As are some of the older James bond films (archaic) in their sexism and the roles. Which, as time has gone by, are being addressed more and more as the newer films come out and society influences the direction the films take. 

Lego is also about education and has its own struggles with societies 'norms' constantly evolving. I think James Bond is a good licence to do which touches upon how a specific licence can evolve to become more family friendly and acceptable to a lower age audience. Whatever the set ends up being, James Bond is still just a 'good guys v bad guys' theme, with the usual love story involved. It doesn't promote drugs or bad behaviour in such a way as themes such as breaking bad does. Its a typical action film with fight scenes, which is what enables the tension and fight scenes between the characters. I didn't watch violent films when I was young, nothing that I remember out of the ordinary. Yet when my good and bad minifigs met up, I made them hit each other. Blame he-man and skeletor, teenage mutant ninja turtles etc for that. Yet they're aimed at kids. The language isn't even that bad, I was brought up knowing which words were wrong. I knew not to say them because of my parents bringing me up to know right from wrong. 

If TLG want to reach out to an older generation which gives us more variation and something for us adults to enjoy nostalgia with every once in a while, then I say good for them!

Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot and prevent such rewards falling upon us in the form of a James bond centred set aimed at the adults who provide TLG with the profits from the money given to them by the set's bought for children who benefit with a toy which provides education and mind stimulus as much as it does enjoyment. 

I agree with this.  LEGO has been using nostalgia products to appeal to adults, and that's a great place to start.  I think that there are current products geared more towards adults that would also do well with a LEGO license.  This will only help LEGO, which will, in turn, help fans.  It's good business.

Anyways, as far as this product itself goes, it's too early to tell.  I'm hoping it will be System / minifigure scale because that's what I buy.  We will have to wait and see.  Either way, I'm happy to see this license on the way, and excited about future possibilities.

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, x105Black said:

I would even be OK with products deemed 'too adult' for the store shelves only appearing for sale online.

Like what specifically for example?

[x105Black]

19 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Like what specifically for example?

The first thing that comes to mind is Game of Thrones.  It's something I've seen a lot of people talking about, and it would be a great theme for LEGO.

That said, this is probably a discussion for another thread.

Edited June 18, 2018 by x105Black

[Anonknee Muss]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:22 PM, nikhkin said:

The Creator Expert sets have a recommended age of 16+.

The Bond films are typically rated as 12 or 12A. A number of the older films (including Goldfinger, which is where a lot of us are suspecting the set is from) are rated PG.

Other sets have fallen into the same age ratings. For example, The Big Bang Theory is rated 12 in the UK.

Ok you’ve convinced me.

On 6/15/2018 at 3:55 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Agreed, as I think Lego should stay away from most (if not all) adult-centric media, specifically of the nature that the James Bond franchise touches upon. Everything that TLG produces should be based upon age appropriate source material, even if a particular set is recommended for older builders.

Yes, sorry guys, I’m back with this opinion!

[Fuppylodders]

4 hours ago, J4ck said:

Ok you’ve convinced me.

Yes, sorry guys, I’m back with this opinion!

Age appropriate source material... directly relates to James Bond falling in those parameters suggesting it is suitable for Lego implementation. 
I see it as slightly off when an age bracketing method from a company is deemed 'the marker' but then another company's (or film board) age bracketing is suggested as not suitable to be mirrored. 

How else is one supposed to provide a linear and transparent set of parameters to decide what is and what is not acceptable to implement into lego to cater to the older audiences?

Has anyone ever thought, that perhaps TLG is actually now trying to focus on the age where people start putting down their Lego and picking up std's hobbies occurring in their late teens/early twenties? Rather than accepting the 'dark ages' as a matter of fact, perhaps they are trying to reach out and help keep in touch?
The above is all just my opinion 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Fuppylodders

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, Fuppylodders said:

Has anyone ever thought, that perhaps TLG is actually now trying to focus on the age where people start putting down their Lego and picking up std's hobbies occurring in their late teens/early twenties? Rather than accepting the 'dark ages' as a matter of fact, perhaps they are trying to reach out and help keep in touch?

I'm not at all saying that Lego shouldn't reach out to teens and adults. Instead, I'm only suggesting that any of the source material they do select for sets targeting an older age range should also not be out of the question for younger kids either. The Technic and Creator Expert themes, for instance, are typically based upon source material that can be appealing to all ages, despite being marketed towards teens and adults primarily.

Point being, Lego can find so many other subject matters and/or franchises that can appeal to both adults and children just as equally, without resorting to tapping into fanbases of more mature-oriented media and/or subject matters.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Digger of Bricks

[BimmerBoy]

Interesting discussion.  It appears we are talking one set, a car, not a full theme.  I think it shows that the TLG's recent commitment to producing more car models (specifically: branded Creator cars, branded Technic cars, branded Speed Champions theme, Lego Ideas famous movie cars) is a successful business model.  

Lego will still make fire stations, police cars, trains, basic brick boxes, themes based on movies popular with children and so on for the kids.  Children will remain the core sales target.  A single set here and there aimed towards adults will not change that.  And honestly, who do you think really buys and builds UCS Star War sets, Architecture and Modulars?  What child wants and buys the Creator VW T1 Camper? Sets aimed towards adults have been around for awhile.  Yes, Bond is more mature than what I just listed, but a Deadpool minifigure has made an appearance in a Lego set aimed at children. Lego had a whole Lone Ranger movie theme, and that movie had a couple of scenes that would be uncomfortable for children.  Jurassic World sets sold like hot cakes, and that movie had people being devoured by dinosaurs.  I guess I'm just not seeing a problem with a Bond car. 

As for the model, seems clear it will be an Aston Martin.  If it is a Creator DB5, awesome!  Forget about machine guns behind headlights, though.  Lego is very clear about not producing anything remotely resembling modern weapons/warfare.  

[nikhkin]

Let's not forget that we're all expecting this to be based on Goldfinger. 

The style of the Bond films has changed drastically since the 1960s. I would not expect a modern Bond film to be "suitable" for a Lego set or theme, but the early Bond films are much "goofier" in style, and nowhere near as violent. I'd consider Lord of the Rings to be much darker and violent than what was classed as an action film back in the 60s. The DB5 is also far less of a weapon than the Tumbler was. 

Tbh, I've been hoping for Lego to get the Aston Martin license for years, and I have checked the Speed Champions line up each year to see if there is an Aston. If this is how we finally get one, I'm happy. 

[MAB]

They did A-team too. And Mission Impossible.  Loads of guns but little actual violence, similar to James Bond.

[Robianco]

I read through this thread during a bout of insomnia around 4am but was too tired to actually type anything.

If you ask any child about Bond they'll know who he is... he's the spy with the gadgets who saves the world. Even the cinematic version isn't the heavy drinking misogynist he was in Ian Fleming's books. The Bond from the films is no different from Indiana Jones, or Han Solo.. and certainly no different from Ethan Hunt. A spy who saves the world and kills bad guys. There's no difference. None. As above... A-Team, Mission Impossible... all the same.

The Solo movie is an excellent film and we have several sets from it. It is the story of an orphan who's fighting to get out of a life of theft and criminality. He joins an army, probably kills people during that time. Gets involved in a criminal gang. Robs something. Has a love interest. He steals more stuff. The issue of sex between people and robots is discussed. Double cross. Killing. More killing. Good guy wins. We even have Pirates of the Caribbean. Murderous thieves who kill for fun and we actually root for them as they're less devious and reprehensible than the British (I am far less devious and reprehensible I'll have you know!) but they're OK to have figures of? I think there was actually more profanity in Ghostbusters than in the Bond Films.

And if we really want to judge Bond against an existing figure... I give you The Joker. A mass murderer. We've got an exact figure of a killer who shoved someones head into an upturned pencil in a movie. We've got a figure that represents the character that crippled Barbara Gordon and took photos of her broken, naked body to try and turn Commissioner Gordon insane. We've got the Joker that beat Jason Todd's Robin almost to death and set a bomb in the warehouse that ultimately killed him. 

If we're fine with all the above being age appropriate then I think we're OK with Bond.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Robianco

[Fuppylodders]

8 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I'm not at all saying that Lego shouldn't reach out to teens and adults. Instead, I'm only suggesting that any of the source material they do select for sets targeting an older age range should also not be out of the question for younger kids either. The Technic and Creator Expert themes, for instance, are typically based upon source material that can be appealing to all ages, despite being marketed towards teens and adults primarily.

Point being, Lego can find so many other subject matters and/or franchises that can appeal to both adults and children just as equally, without resorting to tapping into fanbases of more mature-oriented media and/or subject matters.

I get your view on it, and do agree, to a point. I just think now and then, for certain things such as a bond car, being as awesome as they are, don't feel they deserve to be excluded. A car in itself in a film which isn't really much different than many other source themes we have, isn't promoting anything negative or too mature.

3 hours ago, Robianco said:

I read through this thread during a bout of insomnia around 4am but was too tired to actually type anything.

If you ask any child about Bond they'll know who he is... he's the spy with the gadgets who saves the world. Even the cinematic version isn't the heavy drinking misogynist he was in Ian Fleming's books. The Bond from the films is no different from Indiana Jones, or Han Solo.. and certainly no different from Ethan Hunt. A spy who saves the world and kills bad guys. There's no difference. None. As above... A-Team, Mission Impossible... all the same.

The Solo movie is an excellent film and we have several sets from it. It is the story of an orphan who's fighting to get out of a life of theft and criminality. He joins an army, probably kills people during that time. Gets involved in a criminal gang. Robs something. Has a love interest. He steals more stuff. The issue of sex between people and robots is discussed. Double cross. Killing. More killing. Good guy wins. We even have Pirates of the Caribbean. Murderous thieves who kill for fun and we actually root for them as they're less devious and reprehensible than the British (I am far less devious and reprehensible I'll have you know!) but they're OK to have figures of? I think there was actually more profanity in Ghostbusters than in the Bond Films.

And if we really want to judge Bond against an existing figure... I give you The Joker. A mass murderer. We've got an exact figure of a killer who shoved someones head into an upturned pencil in a movie. We've got a figure that represents the character that crippled Barbara Gordon and took photos of her broken, naked body to try and turn Commissioner Gordon insane. We've got the Joker that beat Jason Todd's Robin almost to death and set a bomb in the warehouse that ultimately killed him. 

If we're fine with all the above being age appropriate then I think we're OK with Bond.

I haven't seen Solo yet, youve literally just said the entire film in a small paragraph! Guess I don't need to watch it anymore  (joking )

The way you've just said it about current licenced themes, there's actually a lot of darkness hidden in the themes more so than I realised. When you put them like that, it really is difficult to see what's bad/too mature about a Bond theme.

 

5 hours ago, nikhkin said:

Let's not forget that we're all expecting this to be based on Goldfinger. 

The style of the Bond films has changed drastically since the 1960s. I would not expect a modern Bond film to be "suitable" for a Lego set or theme, but the early Bond films are much "goofier" in style, and nowhere near as violent.

Here's a strange thing, and I'm thinking this is perception based. It appears the way you see it, the older ones are more relevant and suitable for legofying than the more modern ones...

And while I do entirely agree they are more goofier in certain aspects (ok, a lot), I feel they are also more out of touch with modern societies views, and the direction TLG are trying to head, with regards to sexism and gender stereotypes etc. I'm not normally one to bring this up as I think it already gets enough air time... But there is a lot of sexism, objectification of women (scantily clad women used pretty much as just eye candy in half the films duration), blatant leering at women. The modern films address this. 

The violence, sure, is made to be more real, with actual blood occurring from fist fights, no different than what is seen in any of the marvel films where there is nothing but fighting.

 

I also feel this is a good discussion as it appears the Bond theme is right on the line of what is and what isn't viewed as acceptable to turn into Lego.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Fuppylodders

[BrickBob Studpants]

@Robianco: Couldn't agree more, James Bond really isn't far-fetched, especially when we got sets based on LOTR, ToD and TLR  As you've said, Bond is an icon that almost every kid has at least heard of and a lot of people (including me) have started to watch the Bond movies at age 11-12, so still in the target demographic of LEGO in general  

Some may think that TLG has crossed the line with licenses like Overwatch, IJ or this one, but I think none of these lines are overly sexualized, bleak or gritty (unlike some IPs TLG's competitors got hold of). IMO, the only line they should never cross is releasing realistic military vehicles, and that certainly won't happen 

For the set itself, I hope it includes some minifigs, similar to the UCS Tumblr. My dream would be all 6 incarnations of Bond  

[Robianco]

1 hour ago, Fuppylodders said:

I haven't seen Solo yet, youve literally just said the entire film in a small paragraph! Guess I don't need to watch it anymore  (joking )

The way you've just said it about current licenced themes, there's actually a lot of darkness hidden in the themes more so than I realised. When you put them like that, it really is difficult to see what's bad/too mature about a Bond theme.

It's a really good film. My summary really doesn't do it justice. :)

Han sprung to mind as he's basically a murderer when it suits him. He murdered Greedo (even if it was pre-emptive). Lucas tried to soften that later on with the missed Greedo shot. But he's a survivor... and a killer. Same as Bond.. even their vehicles are full of surprises. Han has the Falcon. James has a DB5.

[Alegrispa]

I haven't read through the thread, but the discussion is based on a tease LEGO made about a Bond themed... something.

Now I'm not sure what is going on with TLG sometimes, since they deemed both The Simpsons (a highly inappropriate, unfunny and crude show these days) and The Big Bang Theory (a show about sexually frustrated nerd stereotypes) appropriate for their brand. And you can nitpick a lot crazy of things associated with any license LEGO bases sets on.

But where I am from James Bond is strongly associated with the line "A Licensee to Kill"(Bond 16). So I really don't think LEGO would produce a line on something like Bond. Maybe an Ideas set, but nothing else.

I think it's most likely what most people already think, an MI6 modified Aston Martin. But then again, I've only seen Casino Royale and I know jack-brick about cars.

Sorry if this disrupts the thread.

[Anonknee Muss]

21 hours ago, Fuppylodders said:

Has anyone ever thought, that perhaps TLG is actually now trying to focus on the age where people start putting down their Lego and picking up std's hobbies occurring in their late teens/early twenties? Rather than accepting the 'dark ages' as a matter of fact, perhaps they are trying to reach out and help keep in touch?
The above is all just my opinion 

Quite a good idea! Certainly seems that way with Overwatch as well .

[LEGODalekbuster523]

A bit of an insult to Whovians for LEGO to make James Bond sets over more Doctor Who ones. I know which would make them more money, and it's not LEGO James Bond.

[Johnny1360]

I do like the idea of a 007 car, definite buy for me. Also there is plenty of source material for future sets and characters, I just don't see it doing all that well outside of a few die-hard fans. I know I am probably one myself, so I of course would like to see it happen. 

Honestly though, I don't see how it would be an insult to Dr. Who fans. 

[Whovastron]

1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said:

A bit of an insult to Whovians for LEGO to make James Bond sets over more Doctor Who ones. I know which would make them more money, and it's not LEGO James Bond.

Not really an insult at all. This will likely just be one set anyhow. We get you want Doctor Who Sets really badly, I do too, but c’mon this isn’t the place for it

 

on another note, whilst I think it would be great for a creator car-scale DB5, I kinda hope it’s a Minifigure scale set, so I can put with my other “iconic” movies vehicles like the Delorean and the Ecto-1. 

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said:

A bit of an insult to Whovians for LEGO to make James Bond sets over more Doctor Who ones. I know which would make them more money, and it's not LEGO James Bond.

While I have my own reasons for not wanting a James Bond license to go any further than this one set (whatever that set may be), I do honestly think James Bond would make more profit for TLG over Doctor Who, primarily because Bond is an American film franchise based upon a British subject matter while Doctor Who is strictly British in all respects. Point being, Bond may have broader audiences on both sides of the Atlantic over Doctor Who for those speculated reasons. 

[RyanMe]

I’m excited for this set. If it just a car, I’ll be disappointed. I need a minifigure at least. 

As tobthe whole 007 is to mature discussion. Just as with the movies, it is the responsibility of the parents to determine what is and isn’t acceptable for their child.  Why should Lego not make things that there is an interest in or that they feel wil be profitable, just because someone thinks it’s too mature. Don’t buy it if that’s how you feel. 

[nikhkin]

6 hours ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said:

A bit of an insult to Whovians for LEGO to make James Bond sets over more Doctor Who ones. I know which would make them more money, and it's not LEGO James Bond.

Whilst I would quite like to see more Doctor Who sets, I highly doubt this will sell less than a new DW set. I have no intention of buying this as a James Bond set, I want it as an Aston Martin set. That factor will be important to a lot of people, and means it will likely sell as well as the other Creator Expert vehicle sets. Additionally it'll sell to the James Bond market, and to kids who want a car with some cool features. The combination of demographics interested is going to lead to more sales. It appeals to Bond fans, car fans, Creator Expert fans. A new Doctor Who set would, unfortunately, only appeal to Doctor Who fans. 

Plus, it's not like the Lego set designers sat there one day and debated if they wanted Doctor Who or James Bond, like it was either one or the other. They produced a single Doctor Who set, along with a couple of Dimensions packs, and for whatever reason they decided not to produce anymore of them. The Doctor Who line has been dormant for a couple of years. 

Wandering into a thread about another license just to moan that it's not a Doctor Who set isn't going to change anything. 

[Kintobor]

I think the issue in doing James Bond as a theme is the more sexual nature of some of the movies. Goldfinger has a character named Pussy Galore, and it's not because she owns a bunch of cats. 

If Lego's going to do a set based off an Aston Martin and give it some cool James Bond style upgrades like ejecting seats and machine guns hidden in the car, and a rotating license plate, then I don't see the issue. Something along the lines of the Caterham has it's place, and there's a market out there for larger scale vehicle builds: the London Bus, the Tumbler, and the various Volkswagen kits prove that. They'll probably throw Sean Connery's Bond in minifigure form as an added bonus.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Kintobor

[Anonknee Muss]

7 hours ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said:

A bit of an insult to Whovians for LEGO to make James Bond sets over more Doctor Who ones. I know which would make them more money, and it's not LEGO James Bond.

Ok we get you like Doctor Who! You’ve had your turn with Doctor Who sets, if it really did good enough Lego would have made more just like ghostbusters, but it didn’t so please stop complaining and moaning.