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Powered Up - A tear down...

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1 hour ago, Giottist said:

This does not make sense

Yes it does, LED's are diodes and can pass electricity only one way so if you reverse the voltage they will block and do nothing

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Unless the diodes have a rectifier bridge before them, which is the case with the PF lights and almost surely the PUp ones.

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Posted (edited)

@Mr Hobbles I've downloaded your NodeJS code for controlling the Powered Up hardware. I tested it and it works well. Since I want to achieve something similar to what you did with the Maersk and Horizon Express on your movie, I installed the Boost color sensor and found it doesn't seem to work work for me, it doesn't register all colors. Also it seems to me the light emitted from the sensor is weaker than when it's connected to the Boost set, when connected to the Boost set it does register all colors as was expected. I've replaced the batteries, but to no avail. Can you shed some light (pun intended) on this problem ? I must admit it has been quite a few weeks since I last tested this. [Edit] I forgot to tell, I'm testing in quite low light conditions [/Edit]

Furthermore is there a speed to detection ratio I need to consider for color detection ? E.g. 4 studs wide at speed 30 or something similar ?

Kind regards,

Kalindor

Edited by Kalindor71

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8 hours ago, Kalindor71 said:

@Mr Hobbles I've downloaded your NodeJS code for controlling the Powered Up hardware. I tested it and it works well. Since I want to achieve something similar to what you did with the Maersk and Horizon Express on your movie, I installed the Boost color sensor and found it doesn't seem to work work for me, it doesn't register all colors. Also it seems to me the light emitted from the sensor is weaker than when it's connected to the Boost set, when connected to the Boost set it does register all colors as was expected. I've replaced the batteries, but to no avail. Can you shed some light (pun intended) on this problem ? I must admit it has been quite a few weeks since I last tested this. [Edit] I forgot to tell, I'm testing in quite low light conditions [/Edit]

Furthermore is there a speed to detection ratio I need to consider for color detection ? E.g. 4 studs wide at speed 30 or something similar ?

Kind regards,

Kalindor

A bit strange that it would appear less bright on the PUP hub than on the Boost hub! It could be that I'm putting the sensor in a different mode than what you're using in the Boost app. I will admit I don't really do much in low light scenarios either. Would you mind raising an issue on GitHub so I can help debug it? Makes it easier to keep track of problems, and helps not bung this forum up with support discussions. :) https://github.com/nathankellenicki/node-poweredup/issues

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10 hours ago, coinoperator said:

Yes it does, LED's are diodes and can pass electricity only one way so if you reverse the voltage they will block and do nothing

That was not what I ment. I expect a function to switch the lights on and off indipendent from the motor direction at the other port. Instead this I found the lights are treated as a parallel motor. With the actual version of the official app the lights does not make sense. What a pity.

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So just assume I am rather old and a little slow. I have a few questions:

  • The lastest LPF2 documentation is the "LEGO Wireless Protocol 3.0.00 Doc v3.0.00 r17 documentation" (Dec 2018) right? I am trying to follow the LPF2 stuff on EB, but the Boost this and Move that, along with Spike here and Prime there, Hubs, PoweredUp and whatnot is (for me) getting tough. I don't have all these devices, just plain vanilla "Hub.No4s". TrainTech has several threads on that, Mindstorms as well, and there is Cosmik, who just fixes things over night when he is travelling and some of you guys were getting nervous:tongue:.
  • Is there a way to update Hub.No4's firmware (what is this box called correctly?) without using the stupid LEGO app? Reason: I don't have a smartphone (believe it or not, but the world is still spinning, I can read printed maps, Google maps, know what time it is, can do SMS on my steam-operated cell phone, know the protocol of TCP/IP, somehow managed to work with BLE … and frequently use Skype for Business to to talk to people quite far away). If not, then I'll ask my wife to download the stupid app, but this is not as it should be; I believe none of you guys are running your fantastic automated layouts from your cell phone ...

Thanks for your help!!!

Best wishes,
Thorsten       

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Posted (edited)

@Toastie as far as I know, there is no other way to update the PoweredUp Hub (aka Hub No.4) besides the Lego train/batmobile app. Yes, the future is here and pretty soon we’ll need an app to flush the toilet :laugh_hard:

Maybe one of these days someone can capture a network and BLE trace of what the app is doing during the update process...  some of the Bluetooth protocol fw update is documented but you’d still need to know where to grab the image from and I assume there’s some checksum validation process 

Edited by veezer

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Toastie said:
  • The lastest LPF2 documentation is the "LEGO Wireless Protocol 3.0.00 Doc v3.0.00 r17 documentation" (Dec 2018) right? I am trying to follow the LPF2 stuff on EB, but the Boost this and Move that, along with Spike here and Prime there, Hubs, PoweredUp and whatnot is (for me) getting tough. I don't have all these devices, just plain vanilla "Hub.No4s". TrainTech has several threads on that, Mindstorms as well, and there is Cosmik, who just fixes things over night when he is travelling and some of you guys were getting nervous:tongue:.

 

Your confusion comes from mixing up things :wink:

"Boost" is a SET
"Hub" is any box, containing Batteries, receiver and connectors
MoveHub is the name of the hub contained in the Boost set
Spike prime is a Set containing the Large Hub and different PowerdUp Sensors and Motors

"PowerderUp" is the LEGO platform for electronics, a kind of a label which describes properties (connecteors and protocol)

Ooops - what was the question?

:laugh:

The "Hub No.4" is called Hub or SmartHub or has even more names.

 

10 hours ago, Toastie said:
  • Is there a way to update Hub.No4's firmware (what is this box called correctly?) without using the stupid LEGO app? Reason: I don't have a smartphone

 

No, I just borrow one or a tablet for the 5 Minutes to update.

And of course you don't need a smartphone to run a layout, there is enough other software.

But as you can do programming with the app (which is not stupid at all) you could do that, I' ll try to show that on some conventions this year.

And of course this is the way LGEO should do Updates, because it's the easiest way for the users.
Please keep in mind that there are a lot of sets which  mandatory need a smart device to be run.

 

 

Edited by Lok24

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2 minutes ago, coinoperator said:

If i'm correct there is also a windows 10 app.

There is a Windows 10 app for Boost. There is no Windows app for Powered Up.

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1 minute ago, Jetro said:

There is a Windows 10 app for Boost. There is no Windows app for Powered Up.

Yes, was anyone succesful in running  that?

I have lots of contact with the service , but no solution yet, so I'have two Boost sets wich I cant't operate at all....

 

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Just now, Lok24 said:

Yes, was anyone succesful in running  that?

I have lots of contact with the service , but no solution yet, so I'have two Boost sets wich I cant't operate at all....

 

I don't understand your question. I have the Boost app on my Windows 10 laptop and it works perfectly with all of my Boost hubs.

You need to make sure you have a BLE compatible bluetooth chip ir bluetooth dongle, otherwise the app won't be able to connect to your hub(s).

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2 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

anyone succesful

Nope
The windows app works hardly.
It's very questionable that TLG releases apps before thoroughly testing it

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12 minutes ago, Jetro said:

I don't understand your question. I have the Boost app on my Windows 10 laptop and it works perfectly with all of my Boost hubs.

You need to make sure you have a BLE compatible bluetooth chip ir bluetooth dongle, otherwise the app won't be able to connect to your hub(s).

I use the same as for Cosmiks BAP project or another one which works with my python prog.

App starts, "Press green button", then check "batteries", ok, then "check BT", ok, then "contact service", which I did.

 

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Have you made sure the hub is not connecting (or connected) through the BT config panel of Windows itself? If Windows pairs first, the app can't connect to the hub.

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Hi @Jetro

Don't know how to check that, and LEGO says nothing about that.
As I wrote, the Appp checks BT and replies "ok"

And: if it it is use by Win itself, why do Cosmik's project and my Python-prog connect without any problems?

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@Lok24 the app checks if BT is enabled. It doesn't check if the hub has been paired previously to some other program.

I don't know how Cosmik's or your program work, I only know that making sure you haven't connected to the hub through the Windows BT connection window is a solution that has worked numerous times for different Powered Up hubs (WeDo and Boost). It is one of the ways to exclude there is a problem with interference.

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1 minute ago, Jetro said:

 I only know that making sure you haven't connected to the hub through the Windows BT connection window is a solution that has worked numerous times for different Powered Up hubs (WeDo and Boost). It is one of the ways to exclude there is a problem with interference.

Thanks,  I don't doubt.

But: How to check in Windows and, if so, realese this connection?

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I am confused. You can write a python program but can't check the BT connection on your Windows computer *huh*:laugh:

Just open your BT connections from the configuration panel and check if the hub is listed (probably with its MAC address). Right click and choose forget device. 

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I don't use Windows, but the comments above make me wonder if there's some confusion about the Bluetooth standards involved.  The pairing procedure to the OS only applies to Bluetooth Classic devices, which as far as I know, is not supported by the LPF2/PoweredUp hubs (or at least the Boost and train hubs).  Instead, these hubs connect via BluetoothLE which does not involve an explicit and permanent pairing between the computer OS and the hub.  Rather, the connection is handled when the app runs and looks for a BluetoothLE device advertising a specific service type; when the app then connects to this service, the app and hub are linked for the duration of that app session.  If you're worried the hub is being "captured" by a rogue app that's running continuously, then shouldn't the LED on the hub be a solid white signaling an active link?

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You are right in part. The app needs to do the connecting, bit a lot of people se to default to the old way of doing think and try to connect to the hub from the BT config screen of their OS. If that happens there may be a conflict between the OS trying to connect at the same time as the app, resulting in interference which makes it difficult or even impossible to successfully pair the hub with the app. 

I've seen this happen in so many cases it has become a kind of "have you turned it off and on again" kind of mantra. 

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In the windows control panel I only see the adapter, no hubs or connections at all, and there is no "right click".
With left click it gives "remove device", but this  of course removes the BT-Dongle.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Jetro said:

You are right in part. The app needs to do the connecting, bit a lot of people se to default to the old way of doing think and try to connect to the hub from the BT config screen of their OS. If that happens there may be a conflict between the OS trying to connect at the same time as the app, resulting in interference which makes it difficult or even impossible to successfully pair the hub with the app. 

I've seen this happen in so many cases it has become a kind of "have you turned it off and on again" kind of mantra. 

Ah I see.  "User error", halt and catch fire :-)

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I never use this "config screen", and everything else here works fine.

With my ASUS Dongle. Movehub, SmartHub, Sbrick.

The only thing that doesn't work is my Boost App with Win 10.

 

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