Powered Up - A tear down...

[Lok24]

Thanks a lot.

Just took a look:

The Spike is "MOTOR, NO. 11" and has a different Design-Id.
This is interesting.

 

[Mr Hobbles]

The different motor colors have different LPF2 id's, but as far as I can are identical internally.

Technic Medium Angular Motor (white/green, SPIKE Prime) = 48
Technic Large Angular Motor (white/green, SPIKE Prime) = 49

Technic Large Angular Motor (light grey/dark grey, Technic Control+) = 76

The Mindstorms versions are unknown at the moment since they haven't been released (I think @kbalage gave me the Control+ motor id to begin with, thanks!)

My theory is the issue is that the Powered Up app doesn't know what to do with "LPF2 peripheral id 76", so despite the fact that it's identical, it ignores it. A patch needs to be released to add support.

As for why they have different ids, I imagine it's so that apps can display a different colored icon depending on which is plugged in. I guess.
 

[Lok24]

Thanks.

They are different LEGO Parts, here the names and design IDs:

Spike / Large Angular Motor / MOTOR, NO. 11 / 54675
Technic / Large Angular Motor / MOTOR, NO. 15 / 69730

Bricklink lists them as only one part, which is wrong?

 

[kbalage]

1 minute ago, Lok24 said:

Bricklink lists them as only one part, which is wrong?

Bricklink's database is updated very slowly. The Spike Prime variant is not listed as being part of any sets and the Volvo does not even has an approved inventory.

[Lok24]

14 minutes ago, kbalage said:

Bricklink's database is updated very slowly. The Spike Prime variant is not listed as being part of any sets and the Volvo does not even has an approved inventory.

The SPIKE PRIME motor is listed here:

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=45678-1#T=S&O={"iconly":0}

And this SPIKE Motor is listed as part of 42114:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=54675c01&in=S

Edited August 15, 2020 by Lok24

[kbalage]

Well, it's still a mess. I found this one first and now I realized that it is the "standalone" version that is sold separately, but in this case it should have this one listed as a "part". And the part is listed as being in the set 42114, but if you check the page of 42114 then the inventory is still not public as it is not approved yet. Additionally only the Technic version has a color assigned, the Spike Prime version does not.

 

[Lok24]

Sure it's a mess 

[BrickTronic]

1 hour ago, Lok24 said:

Spike / Large Angular Motor / MOTOR, NO. 11 / 54675

Technic / Large Angular Motor / MOTOR, NO. 15 / 69730

Does you also have Number-Info about Medium Angular Motor

What motors are Numbered 5 to 10 and 12 to 14 ?

[Lok24]

Familiy,Common Name,LEGO ,Element,Design,SetNo
Boost,Move Hub ,LPF2 HUB MOTOR 6X16X4 NO. 1,6283413,26910,88006
PoweredUp,Hub,HUB NO. 4,6262033,28738,88009
Technic,Technic Hub,HUB, NO. 2,6142536,22127,88012

WeDo 2.0,Medium Motor,not listed,not listed,not listed,45303
Boost,Motor,LPF2 TACHO MOTOR 4X6X3, NO. 1,6283415,26913,88008
PoweredUp,Train Motor,MOTOR, NO. 4,6214559,28740,88011
Technic,L-Motor,MOTOR, NO. 2,6214085,22169,88013
Technic,XL-Motor,MOTOR, NO. 3,6214088,22172,88014
Spike,Medium Angular Motor,MOTOR NO. 12,6266099,54696,
Spike,Large Angular Motor,MOTOR, NO. 11,6265698,54675,
Technic,Large Angular Motor,MOTOR, NO. 15,6317490,69730,

PoweredUp,LED Light,not listed,not listed,not listed,88005
PoweredUp,Sender,HANDSET, NO. 2,6214560,28739,88010
Boost,ColorSensor,LPF2 SENSOR 2X4X2, NO. 1,6240610,26912,88007

WeDo 2.0,TiltSensor,LPF2 SENSOR TILT 2X4X1,6261762,20841, ----
WeDo 2.0,Motion Sensor,,,, ----
WeDo 2.0,Smart Hub,LPF2 SMART HUB 2 I/O 4X8X3,6257893,19071, ----

 

[BrickTronic]

Thanks,

where did you found ?

[Lok24]

Most info except "common name" can be found on the shop sites or LEGO replacement parts, for your country ;-) it would be

https://www.lego.com/de-at/service/replacementparts

Enter a setnumber where you expect the parts.....i.E 42114 or 45678

Edited August 15, 2020 by Lok24

[biasedlogic]

Hi gals and guys...

I'm new around here and after reading this extremely interesting and useful thread I registered to add my own $0.02 to it.

I have worked out a way to 3D print a very usable plug that fits the Powered Up connectors and can provide a way to connect Power Functions motor to a Powered Up hub (it will pretend to be either a WeDo motor or a train motor).

I have posted an article about it on my microsite https://www.biasedlogic.com/index.php/lego-powered-up-connector/

This is how it looks like.

I'm a bit cautious about releasing the design files on a publicly available site as I'm not sure if/what parts of the connector are somehow protected by TLG IP. Beyond that, to actually print them right you do need a very well tuned printer, which my experience on Thingverse indicates, seems as rare as hen teeth.

Anyway, if someone is interested in this approach, comment or drop me a message.

Best regards and thanks for this informative discussion!

[dr_spock]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:35 AM, biasedlogic said:

Hi gals and guys...

I'm new around here and after reading this extremely interesting and useful thread I registered to add my own $0.02 to it.

I have worked out a way to 3D print a very usable plug that fits the Powered Up connectors and can provide a way to connect Power Functions motor to a Powered Up hub (it will pretend to be either a WeDo motor or a train motor).

I have posted an article about it on my microsite https://www.biasedlogic.com/index.php/lego-powered-up-connector/

This is how it looks like.

I'm a bit cautious about releasing the design files on a publicly available site as I'm not sure if/what parts of the connector are somehow protected by TLG IP. Beyond that, to actually print them right you do need a very well tuned printer, which my experience on Thingverse indicates, seems as rare as hen teeth.

Anyway, if someone is interested in this approach, comment or drop me a message.

Best regards and thanks for this informative discussion!

Welcome aboard.  I like how you put in a pocket for the resistors.  I think the new connector is patented. 

[biasedlogic]

8 minutes ago, dr_spock said:

Welcome aboard.  I like how you put in a pocket for the resistors.  I think the new connector is patented. 

I bet it is protected in some way, but you can't just 'patent a connector'. If we talk patent, we talk some novel property or solution. The plug of LEGO PUP isn't novel in the technical solution - it's just a modular crimped connector in a bit unusual shape, but the shape itself also does not solve any old problem in a novel way. You don't get through the European patent office with something like that easily.

What is easier, is to protect a pattern, like you protect a logo or a trade name. But this has to be recognizable pattern for your company and does not necessarily refer to the technicalities.

Getting around a patent for a crimped connector is not so much of a problem - see my design, it's not crimped and the technical solution to obtain the necessary form is vastly different from LEGO's

Getting around a protected pattern is a bit harder thing, because it depends on what is exactly protected. It may be as easy as making the back of the plug round, leading cable sideways out and making it all lime-green so it looks nothing like LEGO, or something entirely impossible, if the actual shape of the contacts is protected pattern... I don't have time now to poke around and find the relevant IP, but if someone has it on hand I'd love to have a look.

greets!

M.

[biasedlogic]

By the way, I just tested:

Re-coding the powered-up train motor with 2.2kΩ resistor on ID1 line makes WeDo recognize it as own Medium Motor (was to be expected) and thus enables to control a train with a WeDo set.

It remains compatible with the rest of the Powered Up family, but the handset remote will control it in bang-bang mode instead of fine power increments - still, you can use the powered up app to control it as you wish.

It's all pretty much stating the obvious things from the documentation, I just tested that it works in reality.

[legotownlinz]

Why are there no Chinese ripoffs when they would be really useful.

I'd like to solder a splitter cable instead of doing it inside of the hub.

[dr_spock]

On 9/29/2020 at 12:58 PM, biasedlogic said:

I bet it is protected in some way, but you can't just 'patent a connector'. If we talk patent, we talk some novel property or solution. The plug of LEGO PUP isn't novel in the technical solution - it's just a modular crimped connector in a bit unusual shape, but the shape itself also does not solve any old problem in a novel way. You don't get through the European patent office with something like that easily.

What is easier, is to protect a pattern, like you protect a logo or a trade name. But this has to be recognizable pattern for your company and does not necessarily refer to the technicalities.

Getting around a patent for a crimped connector is not so much of a problem - see my design, it's not crimped and the technical solution to obtain the necessary form is vastly different from LEGO's

Getting around a protected pattern is a bit harder thing, because it depends on what is exactly protected. It may be as easy as making the back of the plug round, leading cable sideways out and making it all lime-green so it looks nothing like LEGO, or something entirely impossible, if the actual shape of the contacts is protected pattern... I don't have time now to poke around and find the relevant IP, but if someone has it on hand I'd love to have a look.

greets!

M.

Something like this?

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/43/8c/80/777f14b66427d3/US20180145448A1.pdf

 

On 9/29/2020 at 5:11 PM, legotownlinz said:

Why are there no Chinese ripoffs when they would be really useful.

I'd like to solder a splitter cable instead of doing it inside of the hub.

There are inexpensive Chinese 3D printers good enough to print male and female connectors for a DIY PU splitter cable without cutting or harming any LEGO cables in the process.  I can't bring myself to cut LEGO extension cables.  :-)

 

[biasedlogic]

7 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Something like this?

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/43/8c/80/777f14b66427d3/US20180145448A1.pdf

 

Yes, thank you, i will have a closer look later today.

[zephyr1934]

I saw with the latest app update that the phone app now offers the option of, "never time out". I assume that still requires the controller (i.e., phone) to be awake and connected though, right? I would love the option to continue running on disconnect for shows or whatnot, but I suspect that will never come with the standard software.

[kbalage]

@zephyr1934 the "never time out" function affects the screen of the smart device and not the connection with the hub. 

[AVCampos]

Running standalone is a feature exclusive to SPIKE (both yellow and teal) when using official firmware, or the other hubs when using pyBricks. Due to not having changeable firmware, WeDo 2.0 (and the Duplo train too, I guess) definitely can't run standalone.

[Toastie]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:41 PM, dr_spock said:

I can't bring myself to cut LEGO extension cables.

When you have done it for the first time ... you sort of get used to it - that is my experience

Spoiler

 

It also helps to walk into a LEGO store solely with the intention to buy a couple of PUp LEDs just for the purpose of cutting off the connectors and then store the crippled LEDs in one place marked with: "For a beautiful illumination project". Maybe a box. When you purchased them, go home the shortest possible route, don't think about what you are planning to do, get a real sharp device for cutting. Have the box labeled "For a beautiful illumination project" ready. Repeat the "For a beautiful illumination project" over and over again. Now in a state of trance, do the cutting. Open the lid of the box only a little, put the crippled LEDs in there, close it. Do not look directly into the trap - no that is Ghostbusters - the box.

The connector doesn't look toooo bad ... and re-soldering something to it is some kind of relief and makes it less painful.

Be aware though that when some time passes between the cutting (lets say weeks) - the pain comes back and it all starts over again!

 

Best
Thorsten

[AVCampos]

I once cut an extension cable, to power a wireless camera from PF. It still hurts to think about it. ? Now, when I need stuff cut up, I prefer getting it from China. I can't bring myself to ruin genuine LEGO.

[zephyr1934]

On 10/14/2020 at 9:53 AM, kbalage said:

@zephyr1934 the "never time out" function affects the screen of the smart device and not the connection with the hub. 

Oh, thank heavens they brought us that revolutionary innovation... sigh. Thanks for the info though

[Electricsteam]

Is anyone having problems with their PU motors lately? I bought 60197 a while back and now the motor isnt working in either plug.   I don't know if they are both are busted or what.  Just really annoying on such an expensive power system.