Powered Up - A tear down...

[Mr Hobbles]

2 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

@Mr Hobbles

Do the new L & xL motors operate with continuous drive or bang-bang when connected to the PuP hub?

This is critical information for future custom trains...!

Bang bang like the PUP and Boost motors when used with a paired physical remote control.

From an app or custom software it can operate however you want.

[GianCann]

Control+ internals. The processor is an 80Mhz (instead 48Mhz of the PU Hub) and the motors driver is a LB1836

There is a n.4 chip signed ad H25 02 27 x842 (each for single output port) but i don't sure what features they implement. (maybe they are dropdown linear regulator?)

Macros:

[GianCann]

There is a strange thing .... Under the battery pack there is a soft button (reset?) which can only be pressed by removing the battery pack ...

[Tcm0]

Maybe it's used to detect if a rechargeable battery is inserted (that's how they did it with the mindstorms). The rechargeable battery has a small "knob" that presses the button while the battery pack doesn't.

There is no rechargeable battery yet but they kinda made the promise that there will be one.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Tcm0

[GianCann]

8 minutes ago, Tcm0 said:

Maybe it's used to detect if a rechargeable battery is inserted (that's how they did it with the mindstorms)

Ok, thank you! 

[Lok24]

16 hours ago, Mr Hobbles said:

3. The new motors allow you to specify an absolute position to move to. HOWEVER, there is NO absolute zero coded in. Absolute zero is whatever the position is when first turned on. I sniffed the BTLE comms between the Control+ app and the hub when playing with 42099 and it's really interesting. It does a little calibration dance where it moves the wheels as far left as possible then as far right (until blocked by the models superstructure), then measures the actual travel. Using these numbers it can determine where absolute zero should be. It then moves the motor to that position, then send a command to the hub telling it to "reset" the absolute zero position to there.

Thanks alot, I always wondered how that works with the head of vernie (boost) when starting the app.

Is there a command "run 20 for 1 sec" or is there a sequence "run 20 / if motor stalled / Stop"?
The second would really be great because you can calibrate your modell without sensors (or better: the motors work as sensors then).

I tested that with the new EV3 and it really works fine.

 

 

[Tcm0]

@Mr Hobbles is the Control+ hub compatible with the powered up app? (with the "programming part" of the app)

[Jetro]

@Tcm0 not at this moment, but the expectation is that it will in a future update

[Mr Hobbles]

On 8/10/2019 at 3:24 AM, Lok24 said:

Thanks alot, I always wondered how that works with the head of vernie (boost) when starting the app.

Is there a command "run 20 for 1 sec" or is there a sequence "run 20 / if motor stalled / Stop"?
The second would really be great because you can calibrate your modell without sensors (or better: the motors work as sensors then).

I tested that with the new EV3 and it really works fine.

 

 

There’s no such command as far as I know, but the motor is already capable of acting like a sensor. When you send it a command to move, it can also keep reporting back how far it’s moved in degrees.

So one way to do what you’re proposing is to activate the motor for X seconds. Assuming it gets blocked at some point while doing that, time will run out and the motor will stop trying to move. By recording the rotation notifications you can tell how far it’s moved.

[Lok24]

Yes, that's what I understood. But you traced the commands, so I hoped you see what it does.....

LabView for EV3 doesn't have such a command neither, but if you look at Micropython for EV3:

stalled() // Check whether the motor is currently stalled.

or even better:

run_until_stalled(speed, stop_type=Stop.COAST, duty_limit=default)

Spooky!

[jhlee]

On 2019. 8. 10. at 오후 3시 39분, GianCann said:

Control + 내부. 프로세서는 80Mhz (PU 허브의 48Mhz 대신)이고 모터 드라이버는 LB1836입니다.

n.4 칩 서명 광고 H25 02 27 x842 (각각 단일 출력 포트)가 있지만 어떤 기능을 구현하는지 잘 모르겠습니다. (아마도 그들은 드롭 다운 선형 레귤레이터입니까?)

매크로 :

 

hi i found the picture of the internal scene of new hub, thanks to share it and i have one more question, do you have the picture of lego new L and XL motor's inside picture?

i tried to message you but that service was not available

have a nice day~

[Modeltrainman]

I have a few questions about the PU train motor, and pulling cars, and hoping somebody could help me. I built a small 2-4-0 locomotive, and stuck the train motor under the locomotive, using the big driving wheels, I'm trying to pull 4 6x12 cars with 4 wheelsets each, and I've set up valve gear on the motor, going to the rest of the frame so the motor can't rotate through curves.(Like the Emerald Night.) (Well, not smooth like on a diesel. ) Running it backwards so my Hub can sit in the tender. Am I harming anything by doing this?

[dr_spock]

2 minutes ago, Modeltrainman said:

I have a few questions about the PU train motor, and pulling cars, and hoping somebody could help me. I built a small 2-4-0 locomotive, and stuck the train motor under the locomotive, using the big driving wheels, I'm trying to pull 4 6x12 cars with 4 wheelsets each, and I've set up valve gear on the motor, going to the rest of the frame so the motor can't rotate through curves.(Like the Emerald Night.) (Well, not smooth like on a diesel. ) Running it backwards so my Hub can sit in the tender. Am I harming anything by doing this?

That's a similar setup to my camelback locomotive.  I don't think it'll harm the motor.  The larger wheels on the PU train motor make the engine go stupid fast and put the center of gravity higher up.  I found I had to crank up the power to get a long train through the standard R40 curves and slow it down quickly on the long straightaway before the next sharp 90 deg curve of our layout.  Needless to say, the engine flew spectacularly off a curve and onto the floor when I failed to do that in time.

Camelback Steam Locomotive by dr_spock_888, on Flickr

[Modeltrainman]

@dr_spock, thank you! How much speed do you have to give it to get moving? Mine needs 30(%?)(I know this should be in train tech, but it's more a motor thing.)

[PF Remote]

Hi, 

I decided to decompile the PU app and I found some firmware packages. Do you know how to install them manually, I am programming an alternative app for PU and I would like to code an option, where you can update/downgrade the firmware of the PU Hub. Link to Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19fHPTzP8IHnI3Bl1PzHJjuyxrsHaFBya/view?usp=sharing

[Lok24]

As far as I now there is no method, the process is started automatically, obviously when number is higher than the one installed on the hub. And cannot be avoided!

Edited August 17, 2019 by Lok24

[PF Remote]

Hi, 

ok, thank you for the information. I have seen the doc of the Lego PU system on Github, but I still don t understand, what is the command for changing the name of the HUB and turning it off.

With command I mean the HEX code that you have to send to the hub. Example command for setting the speed to maximum on port A: 0800810011510060.  It would be very helpful for me to know this for continue programming on my app. 

LINK to the doc: https://lego.github.io/lego-ble-wireless-protocol-docs/index.html#document-index

[Lok24]

Hi, disconnect should be

char-write-cmd 0x0b 04000201

Perhaps you look at the js-project of @Mr Hobbles or the documentation of @treczoks, both found here

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by Lok24

[imurvai]

What is the point behind sending a disconnect command? If you just disconnect from the HUB it will turn itself off after a couple of seconds.

[PF Remote]

Hi,

I just wanted to know it for direct disconnection, so there are no issues with auto conect, after reopening the app.

BTW.: The command had worked. 

@imurvai      Do you know the command for changing the name?;)

Edited August 17, 2019 by PF Remote

[Lok24]

12 hours ago, imurvai said:

What is the point behind sending a disconnect command? If you just disconnect from the HUB it will turn itself off after a couple of seconds.

Assume you have a program that "translates" the commands of a LEGO Handheld 88010 to a Smart Hub.
(I showed many examples here and had that with me on exhibitions, similar to your app)

If you stop the program it takes approximately two seconds, and handheld and Smart Hub are paired!
Which in my case disallows to restart the program, cause devices are busy..

 

 

[imurvai]

38 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

Assume you have a program that "translates" the commands of a LEGO Handheld 88010 to a Smart Hub.
(I showed many examples here and had that with me on exhibitions, similar to your app)

If you stop the program it takes approximately two seconds, and handheld and Smart Hub are paired!
Which in my case disallows to restart the program, cause devices are busy..

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

[Lok24]

17 hours ago, PF Remote said:

I decided to decompile the PU app and I found some firmware packages. Do you know how to install them manually, I am programming an alternative app for PU and I would like to code an option, where you can update/downgrade the firmware of the PU Hub. Link to Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19fHPTzP8IHnI3Bl1PzHJjuyxrsHaFBya/view?usp=sharing

Hi @PF Remote

What is urgently needed:

- for Android 5 and above

- Slider to set speed (for 1 motor , 2 on a hub, 2 on different hubs, reverse one) with every type of motor

- hold speed when not touched (optional)

- Button to turn on LED (on same hub)

- switch to support 2-5 locos

- stop when BT is lost (optional)

So: Something simple!

 

 

 

 

 

[PF Remote]

4 hours ago, Lok24 said:

Hi @PF Remote

What is urgently needed:

- for Android 5 and above

- Slider to set speed (for 1 motor , 2 on a hub, 2 on different hubs, reverse one) with every type of motor

- hold speed when not touched (optional)

- Button to turn on LED (on same hub)

- switch to support 2-5 locos

- stop when BT is lost (optional)

So: Something simple!

 

Hi @Lok24, 

I will try to release this points, but I have some questions too:

- Button to turn on LED (on same hub)

Do you mean the built in LED of the HUB or connected leds. As I understand you mean that it should control two leds on two HUBS.

 

What do you mean with switch to support 2-5 locos? Do you mean that you are connected to 2-5 HUBs and you control every of them by a switch that changes the HUB that should be controlled.

[Lok24]

Hi @PF Remote

1.) a pair of leds connected to Port B of Smart Hub (port A is the motor)

2.) Yes, to enable the user to drive two engines independet / simultaniously without  connecting/disconnecting

I know very many people who are looking for this.

Button A,B,C,D to connect to a Hub,or, if already connected, send command to this hub

Good luck for your interesting project!