Powered Up - A tear down...

[Giottist]

2 hours ago, Bartosz said:

@Giottistnice. May I ask, what are the dimensions? As I've mentioned earlier, for me one of the advantage of 9V battery (some of them at least), is that I can fit it in 2-stud wide space...

Exactly the same as a standard 9V block Type "6F22". I've just tested it: 2 studs is possible but very tight.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Giottist

[JopieK]

On 9/11/2018 at 8:57 AM, JopieK said:

It takes a lot to offend a teacher haha but I wanted to elaborate more on it :) I also think it has older firmware, seems to be unlikely that it detects white and blue correctly and ignores the other colors.

LEGO reached out to me (proof that they do read Eurobricks ;)) , the issue was solved in the release versions, that is why I ran into the problem. Great to hear! I like the Duplo trains very much, now we can finally explain to primary school teaching students what programming is without the need (but with the possibility) to open up a laptop or tablet! Too bad the city trains don't include the speaker though, that would have been something for us LEGO train enthusiasts. Of course a Duplo train allows for a larger PCB and more options so I can understand it but nevertheless.

[zephyr1934]

On 9/18/2018 at 7:12 AM, JopieK said:

now we can finally explain to primary school teaching students what programming is without the need (but with the possibility) to open up a laptop or tablet!

You could even get in to simple logic circuits and counters, grin...

[JopieK]

50 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

You could even get in to simple logic circuits and counters, grin...

Of course, but I reckon that is even hard for first grade college students so maybe we could use the Duplo train for them :)

[vladoniki]

On 6/7/2018 at 11:59 AM, JopieK said:

 

 

Is there a way to push the button on the remote control and the train motor to run at maximal speed, after release the button - motor stops. I mean to use the train motor the same way like Powered UP M motor - push button motor runs at max speed, motor stops when the button is released?

[AVCampos]

If you control the motor from the app using the Batmobile profile, that should be possible.

[vladoniki]

Just now, AVCampos said:

If you control the motor from the app using the Batmobile profile, that should be possible.

I have just tried - it doesn't work with the BatMobile App. :)

[Jetro]

6 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

If you control the motor from the app using the Batmobile profile, that should be possible.

The app checks for the right motor(s). The Batman profile will only work when 2 medium motors are connected. COnnect only one (or a train motor) and it will do nothing.

[AVCampos]

Well, in that case I guess we'll have to wait until @imurvai adds PUp support in Brick Controller...

[zux]

@vladoniki @Jetro it is actually possible, occasionally, to make train run at full speed while button is pressed and stop it releasing the button. But it happens when system encounters a bug. A bit of a story. Our LUG has been running 2x 60197 sets combined on our latest event and we've experienced quite a lot of issues. One of them mentioned above, with one motor going to into zero speed mode while second one still running at desired speed. This resulted in train to slow down, obviously. Upon inspection it was discovered, that when this happens, the motor which went into zero speed mode will only go full speed (while keeping a button on a controller) or stop (once button released). No incremental speed increase/decrease. Rebooting the hub resolved the issue. But it happened several times over the weekend. 

On a separate note, I wish to understand if anyone had 2x of new trains with Power Up running as a single/combined train? I'm interested to know if you experience similar issues we had running train for two days explained below.

First one is pairing both hubs. Online instructions are not so obvious and we've spent quite some time before figuring out the right sequence.

Second one is obviously the way trains are controlled. In order to use one controller each train's motor had to be inserted into different port in hubs. This means, you need to push "+" and "-" on on both pads simultaneously. Not a big deal, but inconvenient. Sometimes we used to do this in sequence, like +-+-+- to make both motors run in 3rd speed.

Next issue was the train stopping for no reason. We had quite a long loop for this train and kept the controller in the middle of it. However train had stopped for no reason a numerous amount of time, even with fresh batteries, with all button lit. 

And the last one has been explained already - one motor is stopping for no reason and does not behave as train motor because of instant acceleration to full speed. Fixed by rebooting a hub.

By the end of the event I saw clearly why people like 9V system a lot - you set up and forget about it. Even PF based train was running much better and smoother than the newest PowerUp stuff. 

[Dragunov2]

Kind of firmware issue I guess.

In the motor there is some kind of ID which tells the HUB if it's a train engine or some kind of other engine or pheripheral, so u actually need to hack to code to let the hub think otherwise!

[brickerik]

On 9/25/2018 at 6:34 PM, zux said:

@vladoniki @Jetro it is actually possible, occasionally, to make train run at full speed while button is pressed and stop it releasing the button. But it happens when system encounters a bug. [...]. Upon inspection it was discovered, that when this happens, the motor which went into zero speed mode will only go full speed (while keeping a button on a controller) or stop (once button released). No incremental speed increase/decrease. Rebooting the hub resolved the issue. But it happened several times over the weekend.

I observed once the same behavior.

I'm following with interest this topic, because I'm currently developing a Java-based solution for Powered-Up. I have already a working proof of concept. Thanks to @Mr Hobbles for the job regarding the PUP protocol.

 

 

[kungpo]

I have 2x the 60197 trains - it is possible to control both "engines" from one controller? Do you have to use channel 1 on one hub and channel 2 on the other?

I did see the Lego FAQs and it seems to say it's possible, just not how to do it.

Can I control multiple trains at one time?

Yes, with the remote control. Currently the Powered Up App only controls one Powered Up Hub at a time.

[Dragunov2]

Indeed, cause they say this about it: Engine on plug 1 and engine/or lights on plug 2

[zux]

That would only work if you wish to run two trains independently. If you need to combine both 60197 sets into single train, the solution mentioned above isn't going to work.

[kungpo]

19 hours ago, zux said:

That would only work if you wish to run two trains independently. If you need to combine both 60197 sets into single train, the solution mentioned above isn't going to work.

Why wouldn't it work? Have the 2nd train using port 2 and reverse the control.

[FiliusRucilo]

Sorry wrong thread...

Edited October 2, 2018 by FiliusRucilo

[zux]

14 hours ago, kungpo said:

Why wouldn't it work? Have the 2nd train using port 2 and reverse the control.

Solution I've mentioned suggest to connect each motor to port 1 in their respective hubs. Doing so and using single control unit to start the train will result in each train going opposing directions.

You are doing nothing wrong! This is exactly what we found ourselves on recent LUG event, that 2nd motor has to be connected to port 2 on another hub for combined train to go same direction. The downside is that you have to control both motors independently.

[Dragunov2]

It depends on how u attach the wheels to the plate

[Giottist]

Just find a very interesting article about powered up on Zusammengebaut.com. It is in german so I like to translate the most important statements into english:

• The PU elements like hubs, motors, sensors etc will be available in the LEGO online shop early in 2019. The prices are not fixed.
• It is not possible to stack plugs but LEGO developers think about firmware logic to couple different ports. But the work is still in progress, we have to wait. (Replied multiple times)
• There will be more or less frequent updates of apps and firmware in the future.
• The plug type is a proprietary design by LEGO and not available on the free market.
• The actual hub for the trains and the stubby batmobile has only two ports, but PU supports 4 ports. We can reckon with other hubs .... (But no release time was specified) The Boost hub has four ports, two internal, two external.
• Powered Up, BOOST, WeDo 2.0 and Duplo depends on the same hardware, but only PU, BOOST and Duplo can (and will?) be updated.

It seems we need some patience and let the development team more time ... Duplo has some functionality using a colour sensor, this is promising for all who wait for a real signal function. And we can only hope for extension cables to gain LEGO plugs for own projects.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Giottist
spelling, uh oh, english is not my mothers language

[Lok24]

Thanks for this short summery.

By design it is not possible to stack the plugs, and this can easily be explained by the fact, that the HUB should determine what is connected to a single port.

A nice extension would be some "booster",  perhaps like a 2x2 Brick in size. Plugged into the Hub it offers 2 Motor Ports (for Train Motors only) running simultaniously, one of them can be reversed.

Another nice extension would be some "booster",  perhaps like a 2x4 Brick in size. Plugged into the Hub it offers 4 Motor Ports independend from each other.

[Giottist]

@Lok24: The determination, what's plugged into the hub makes sense. Most important will be distinguishing between the train motor (continuous running) and motor with tacho sensor (running only when a button is pressed).

Any "booster" or better multiplexer is a little bit optimistic. Since the microcontroller inside the hub offers four ports another solution with four plugs is imaginable. I do not count on extra multiplexing hardware since all LEGO trains ever are powered only by one motor. LEGO has no need to introduce a more complex solution.

By the way, it is no problem to switch two train motors in parallel since the ID wires are only a combination of VCC and GND. But please, this is only a solution for for very experienced electronic experts. Do not try this If you are unsure what you are doing

 

 

[Mr Hobbles]

3 hours ago, Giottist said:

@Lok24: The determination, what's plugged into the hub makes sense. Most important will be distinguishing between the train motor (continuous running) and motor with tacho sensor (running only when a button is pressed).

 Any "booster" or better multiplexer is a little bit optimistic. Since the microcontroller inside the hub offers four ports another solution with four plugs is imaginable. I do not count on extra multiplexing hardware since all LEGO trains ever are powered only by one motor. LEGO has no need to introduce a more complex solution.

 

 

Actually the port multiplexing already exists on both the Boost Hub and the Powered UP Hub.

On the Boost Hub there is a virtual port "AB", which you can send commands to, and it will set that command on both port "A" and "B" at the same time. I actually haven't tested this with ports "C" and "D" though! I might do that this evening.

On the Powered UP hub a virtual port "AB" is created internally when you plug in two devices of the same Auto ID. However, it currently crashes the Hub if you plug in two sensors (Boost Color/Distance, WeDo 2.0 Distance/Tilt) or Boost Interactive Motors. I guess there is something here incompatible with sensors as it doesn't expect them to be plugged in, so with two it crashes. With motors it works though. If you plug two train motors in you can control both with a single command on port "AB" (even in opposite directions).

For example when you use the Batmobile app with the slider mode for the wheels, it actually sends a single command to port "AB" to control both wheels at the same time.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Mr Hobbles

[Feichti]

On 10/8/2018 at 7:28 PM, Giottist said:

Just find a very interesting article about powered up on Zusammengebaut.com. It is in german so I like to translate the most important statements into english:

• The PU elements like hubs, motors, sensors etc will be available in the LEGO online shop early in 2019. The prices are not fixed.

Hope that the price is not too high.

I would like to change some of my trains

[Lok24]

Hi,

the HUB is available directly fom LEGO, price is app. 45,34 €

All parts (Hub, RemoteControl, Motor) are available at Bricklink, each about 16,-- € +/- 4 €

9V Battery Box Powered Up Bluetooth HUB with Light Bluish Gray Bottom
Electric, Battery Box : 28738c01 EUR 14.80+

Powered Up Bluetooth Speed Remote Control Unit with Light Bluish Gray Base : Electric : 28739c01     EUR 12.34+

Train Motor 9V RC Train with Integrated Powered Up Attachment, Orange Wheel Holders (motor only, no attached wheels)
Electric, Train : 28740c01 EUR 12.31+

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Lok24