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The Lego Movie 2 - The Second Part 2019 Set Discussion

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23 minutes ago, Robert8 said:

If these sets were cancelled (and not just pushed back) then than means the line must be selling poorly.

Yes, they are, at least based on my observations. It's the same gag I keep citing for Super Heroes sets and their situation here in Germany: You can go to a store three months later and recognize the same boxes based on damage marks, meaning they haven't moved or sold at all. There are also continually heavy discounts on those sets, which furthers the impression that in order for anyone to even consider them, they have to be cheap. Arguably though, they have been seriously overpriced to begin with, which no doubt also didn't help. LEGO's speculation of milking the film clearly has exploded in their face on so many levels and now they're hitting the brakes to not garner further losses, likely just as they were about to start production on those other sets...

Mylenium

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Posted (edited)

Is it possible these sets, if canned had the same new rumored material that got LEGO AL canned? From what I've seen TLM2 sets have been selling decently at least, so it's somewhat shocking to see this.

Nothing looked too different in the movie, but we haven't seen the sets. (Obviously)

Edited by jhuyser

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Honestly I’m going to take these rumors about cancellations with a grain of salt… I don’t know whether this site’s been a reliable for such rumors in the past, and while they at least allude to unnamed dealers as sources, I can’t help but be reminded of that completely unfounded rumor about Nexo Knights ending in 2017 and possibly even having its summer 2017 wave cancelled. Loads of people and websites were discussing and reporting on that unsourced claim as a credible rumor until an actual set designer commented on Brickset to let people know it was nonsense.

Notably, Zusamnengebaut’s reporting from Nuremberg Toy Fair conformed these sets not for summer, but for the second half of the year. Also, the information they received at that event included the names of the Space Palace, Rexcelsior, and Sparkle Spa, but not the other three, which is a pretty strong indication that the plan at that point was for those three sets to be formally announced and released later than the rest.

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The additional three supposed TLM2 sets were a miscommunication from the start. Before the Triple Decker Couch Mech was revealed, the three supposed other sets were 70847, 70848, and 70849, one of which would have been the couch mech. The numbers are wildly out of sequence with the rest of the releases in the theme (the next one will be 70843). Nothing has been canceled nor changed. These sets never existed in the first place. 

Everything is fine. There is no need for hysteria. 

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2 minutes ago, Robert8 said:

:oh:????

What would you call the last page of overreacting to a nonexistent 'issue' with tales of cancelation and anecdotal assumptions about overall sales? It's baseless hysteria. The sets have sold briskly here, with only two notable sales (for 20% off of sets priced 49.99$ or lower only, at TRU) and otherwise full price consistently. Obviously, the reports of slow (or rapid, for that matter) sales in one town are not a universal reflection of anything. 

There was never going to be another wave this summer, and there will never be a wave bearing the 'canceled' set numbers. The theme will retire before it reaches those numbers, it was always going to. There will be a third 'wrap up' wave at the end of the year, just like every Lego film before this one. Everything is perfectly in line with what we've come to expect from movie themes. 

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33 minutes ago, klinton said:

The additional three supposed TLM2 sets were a miscommunication from the start. Before the Triple Decker Couch Mech was revealed, the three supposed other sets were 70847, 70848, and 70849, one of which would have been the couch mech. The numbers are wildly out of sequence with the rest of the releases in the theme (the next one will be 70843). Nothing has been canceled nor changed. These sets never existed in the first place. 

Everything is fine. There is no need for hysteria. 

I didn't know there is hysteria. Frankly, even if these new sets didn't come out, people will not notice. That's the kind of reception I see in the stores and online marketing about these sets.

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28 minutes ago, makoy said:

I didn't know there is hysteria. Frankly, even if these new sets didn't come out, people will not notice. That's the kind of reception I see in the stores and online marketing about these sets.

Yes. An 84 page thread is clear indication of the general online indifference towards the theme. :p

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15 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Notably, Zusamnengebaut’s reporting from Nuremberg Toy Fair conformed these sets not for summer, but for the second half of the year. Also, the information they received at that event included the names of the Space Palace, Rexcelsior, and Sparkle Spa, but not the other three, which is a pretty strong indication that the plan at that point was for those three sets to be formally announced and released later than the rest.

But then again, Nuremberg Toy Fair was in February when the film wasn't even released in many territories and things looked a lot different. They couldn't have known that it would end up being such a dud. Therefore it doesn't seem too far fetched that they would change their plans now in light of this total disaster that it turned out to be. It just wouldn't make sense to still release them. Nobody I know cares even for the Sparkle Spa and Space Palace and LEGO will be lucky if those sell reasonably okay at all. Time to move on and bury this dead horse...

Mylenium

7 hours ago, klinton said:

Yes. An 84 page thread is clear indication of the general online indifference towards the theme. :p

Oh, c'mon! This is an AFOL forum, after all. Clearly we tend to obsess about the minutest things all the time, yet the rest of the world really doesn't care. The rest is of course a matter of personal experience and perception, but here in Germany I don't hear much talk about the movie anymore and the sets are stuck on shelves, even the small ones. So perhaps them "selling briskly at full price" is more of an exception than the rule? Was no different with the Ninjago movie, BTW, so perhaps that "wrap up" wave might not make much sense, unless those sets would be another Ninjago City Docks that could be appreciated on its own merits, not because it is tied to a movie?! Just sayin'...

Mylenium

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That is why It's so hard to believe to me that they cancelled 3 sets from the movie. The sales must have been like a complete disaster... But maybe it is really just a misunderstanding. That sounds more reasonable.

Back then, I myself posted about how weird was to reveal only half of the summer wave at the Toy Fair

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5 hours ago, Mylenium said:

 Nobody I know cares even for the Sparkle Spa and Space Palace and LEGO will be lucky if those sell reasonably okay at all. 

Mylenium

I was full excited for the Space Palace, yo! I actually arrived late to work due to rushing to pick it up on release day. Hahaha. 

Your own indifference to something doesn't imply any sort of universal 'truth', eh? ;)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, klinton said:

Your own indifference to something doesn't imply any sort of universal 'truth', eh? ;)

I never claimed any such thing, but responses to these sets here in Germany, at least on the forums and blogs I watch, have been very negative as in "So what?". And in fact you have it wrong - as a regular buyer of Friends sets and similar weird stuff as well as already having bought the Party Bus and the Systar Ship I'm totally game for these "White" TLM2 sets, it's just that my impression is the rest of the local AFOL community really doesn't give a damn, even more so since many of them also consider the TLM2 sets weak in comparison to those for the first movie to begin with. No idea if that is true, as that was before I took an interest in LEGO, but I would argue that none of this is in any way conducive to generating sales. Well, whatever, it's of course subjective. We will have to see when LEGO release their sales figures. I would predict, though, that TLM2 doesn't make it into the top five, given the circumstances, at least for the German market...

Mylenium

Edited by Mylenium
Typos

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What killed my interest was the antagonist side and setting. From the trailer, I was very excited for anything Apocalypseburg-related. That's where the deception began. Well.. what if... the antagonists were all minidols and brick-built characters to appeal to girls, how cool would that be?? Oh, and let's add Duplo, too! If there's two things I don't care for, it would be girl-oriented LEGO, and Duplo. I mean, these have all the right to be cameos, but to take the spotlight was a not a good move, imo. Neither was recycling the complete cast, or leaving out the civilians/cameos in the regular (e.g. non-CMF; non D2C) sets. 

In my experience, Sweet Mayhem and Rex are on par with the level of value that Lucy and Metalbeard contributed to the first movie: fresh, original, and quality characters. Without having seen TLM2 I'll say: we needed more of these. Same goes for the incorporated legacy themes: the (second) return of Classic Space in physical form was a good move imo, but where are the other themes? Bionicle, Chima, Rock Raiders, Blacktron idk.. Pirates of the Carribean, Powerpuff Girls, etc.; something to get a new cocktail going that works (almost) as well as last one. 

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7 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

What killed my interest was the antagonist side and setting. 

 Well.. what if... the antagonists were all minidols and brick-built characters to appeal to girls, how cool would that be?? Oh, and let's add Duplo, too! If there's two things I don't care for, it would be girl-oriented LEGO, and Duplo. I mean, these have all the right to be cameos, but to take the spotlight was a not a good move, imo. 

How gracious that ‘girl-oriented’ stuff has a right to a cameo. Good that it knows it’s place. 🙄

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1 hour ago, williejm said:

How gracious that ‘girl-oriented’ stuff has a right to a cameo. Good that it knows it’s place. 🙄

On second thought, I put that wrong. A different thought: those would have probably worked better if they had been blended  into the protagonist team, possibly replacing characters that have been milked already (Batman...). 

However, speaking for myself here, the boy in me wants a cool antagonist faction to fight against my protagonists. Something like TLM1's super secret police, or evil swarms of knights, or ninja, or wizards, or aliens, or a supervillain alliance. I don't want a bunch of silly brick-built teddybear goofballs. 

My two assumptions that led to my earlier comment were that 1. the target demographic (still) a majority of boys, and 2. the majority of boys has similar desires as me. If both are true, then from a marketing perspective it would not have been the smartest move to make the antagonists minidolls and Duplo.

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5 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

However, speaking for myself here, the boy in me wants a cool antagonist faction to fight against my protagonists. Something like TLM1's super secret police, or evil swarms of knights, or ninja, or wizards, or aliens, or a supervillain alliance. I don't want a bunch of silly brick-built teddybear goofballs. 

Did I read right that you haven't seen the movie? Because you seem confused as to the nature of the conflict in the plot. They got a pretty cool antagonist faction, I thought. The real one, anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

On second thought, I put that wrong. A different thought: those would have probably worked better if they had been blended  into the protagonist team, possibly replacing characters that have been milked already (Batman...). 

However, speaking for myself here, the boy in me wants a cool antagonist faction to fight against my protagonists. Something like TLM1's super secret police, or evil swarms of knights, or ninja, or wizards, or aliens, or a supervillain alliance. I don't want a bunch of silly brick-built teddybear goofballs. 

My two assumptions that led to my earlier comment were that 1. the target demographic (still) a majority of boys, and 2. the majority of boys has similar desires as me. If both are true, then from a marketing perspective it would not have been the smartest move to make the antagonists minidolls and Duplo.

. . . Actually there's a third assumption you've made without even realising it. Granted, this is an assumption that Lego wants you to make prior to seeing the movie, but if you really don't intend to see it then I'll just tell you. 

Spoiler

Queen Whatevra Wa'Nabi, the mini-dolls and Duplonians, they all aren't the real antagonists of The Lego Movie. All they want is to befriend and live together with the inhabitants of Bricksburg/Apocalypseburg. This is characteristic of Blanca's desire to play with her brother as an equal. 

The real villain is Rex Dangervest himself. Rex is the embodiment of Finn's selfishness and masculinity, and spends his time in the movie manipulating Emmet and Lucy into viewing the Systar System's inhabitants as evil. If you want 'a cool antagonist faction', look no further than the Rextreme Off-roader, Rexplorer, Rexcelsior and their inhabitants.

It's really not fair to judge the movie or its characters without having seen it, though. 

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7 hours ago, williejm said:

How gracious that ‘girl-oriented’ stuff has a right to a cameo. Good that it knows it’s place. 🙄

Well put!

I'm sorry if this is a bit blunt, but the number of whiny men in the LEGO fan community — and in society at large —who are repulsed by the very idea of "girliness", or consider it uncool or frivolous, is exactly why movies like this one were so needed. We've already had three LEGO movies in a row that were with few exceptions inspired by masculine-coded storytelling tropes, visual cues, and LEGO themes. Besides Unikitty and Cloud Cuckoo Land, how much was there in those first three movies that felt especially "girly"?

And is this theme really as girly as some people make it sound? So far, in The LEGO Movie 2 theme, these sets could be said to focus mostly on feminine-coded (cute/beautiful) design cues:

  1. https://brickset.com/sets/70822-1/Unikitty-s-Sweetest-Friends-EVER!
  2. https://brickset.com/sets/70824-1/Introducing-Queen-Watevra-Wa-Nabi
  3. https://brickset.com/sets/70825-1/Queen-Watevra-s-Build-Whatever-Box!
  4. https://brickset.com/sets/70828-1/Pop-Up-Party-Bus
  5. https://brickset.com/sets/70830-1/Sweet-Mayhem-s-Systar-Starship!
  6. https://brickset.com/sets/70833-1/Lucy-s-Builder-Box!
  7. https://brickset.com/sets/70837-1/Shimmer-Shine-Sparkle-Spa!
  8. https://brickset.com/sets/70838-1/Queen-Watevra-s-‘So-Not-Evil-Space-Palace

For comparison, THESE ones could be said to focus mostly on masculine-coded (tough/intense) design cues:

  1. https://brickset.com/sets/70821-1/Emmet-and-Benny-s-Build-and-Fix-Workshop!
  2. https://brickset.com/sets/70823-1/Emmet-s-Thricycle!
  3. https://brickset.com/sets/70826-1/Rex-s-Rex-treme-Offroader!
  4. https://brickset.com/sets/70827-1/Ultrakatty-Warrior-Lucy!
  5. https://brickset.com/sets/70829-1/Emmet-and-Lucy-s-Escape-Buggy!
  6. https://brickset.com/sets/70832-1/Emmet-s-Builder-Box!
  7. https://brickset.com/sets/70834-1/MetalBeard-s-Heavy-Metal-Motor-Trike!
  8. https://brickset.com/sets/70835-1/Rex-s-Rexplorer!
  9. https://brickset.com/sets/70836-1/Battle-Ready-Batman-and-MetalBeard
  10. https://brickset.com/sets/70839-1/The-Rexcelsior!
  11. https://brickset.com/sets/70840-1/Welcome-to-Apocalypseburg!
  12. https://brickset.com/sets/70841-1/Benny-s-Space-Squad
  13. https://brickset.com/sets/70842-1/Emmet-s-Triple-Decker-Couch-Mech

Notice how the second list is noticeably longer than the first? A lot of the strength of The LEGO Movie theme compared to the themes for the two spin-offs, to hear many people tell it, was that it brought together and celebrated such a diverse range of themes. So it boggles my mind that a lot of people think the rather modest number of "girly"-looking sets for this movie is more egregious than the overwhelming emphasis on "boyish"-looking sets for the previous three LEGO movies.

10 hours ago, Mylenium said:

I never claimed any such thing, but responses to these sets here in Germany, at least on the forums and blogs I watch, have been very negative as in "So what?". And in fact you have it wrong - as a regular buyer of Friends sets and similar weird stuff as well as already having bought the Party Bus and the Systar Ship I'm totally game for these "White" TLM2 sets, it's just that my impression is the rest of the local AFOL community really doesn't give a damn, even more so since many of them also consider the TLM2 sets weak in comparison to those for the first movie to begin with. No idea if that is true, as that was before I took an interest in LEGO, but I would argue that none of this is in any way conducive to generating sales. Well, whatever, it's of course subjective. We will have to see when LEGO release their sales figures. I would predict, though, that TLM2 doesn't make it into the top five, given the circumstances, at least for the German market...

In general, disdain or lack of enthusiasm among AFOLs is probably one of the least reliable predictors for a theme's likelihood of selling well. It's not as though AFOLs welcomed themes like Bionicle, Power Miners, Atlantis, Ninjago, Friends, Legends of Chima, or Nexo Knights with open arms. And yet every one of those themes managed to become successful in their own right, with several becoming long-lasting hits.

It's extremely doubtful that The LEGO Movie 2 theme will make it into the top 5 for this year, but I'm not sure what you think that would prove, since that's been true of ALL the LEGO Movie themes. Even the top 5 themes named by LEGO in their 2014 annual results press conference were City, Star Wars, Friends, Creator, and Duplo. And that shouldn't be surprising, since one of the things that made 2014 such a good year for LEGO was not just the LEGO Movie theme's own sales, but the halo effect the movie's popularity had on other themes — including the themes that tend to be contenders for the top 5 by default.

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4 hours ago, Aanchir said:

In general, disdain or lack of enthusiasm among AFOLs is probably one of the least reliable predictors for a theme's likelihood of selling well.

Yeah, sure, but then there's also the general disinterest from the public. Nobody is talking about the movie (and never was even before it launched), it made a measly 3.7 Million Euro officially and - you're gonna give me flak for this again for it being "too anecdotal and subjective" - but very visibly some sets just don't sell (here in Germany). It's simply not going to make much of a dent around these parts, that much seems sure. Also, specific to the Sparkle Spa and Space Castle there seems to be an outright "it's bad because it's too different" (from conventional LEGO models) attitude, so personally I expect those to sets to sell like crap.

Mylenium

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7 hours ago, Mylenium said:

Yeah, sure, but then there's also the general disinterest from the public. Nobody is talking about the movie (and never was even before it launched), it made a measly 3.7 Million Euro officially and - you're gonna give me flak for this again for it being "too anecdotal and subjective" - but very visibly some sets just don't sell (here in Germany). It's simply not going to make much of a dent around these parts, that much seems sure. Also, specific to the Sparkle Spa and Space Castle there seems to be an outright "it's bad because it's too different" (from conventional LEGO models) attitude, so personally I expect those to sets to sell like crap.

I mean, not sure what gives you the impression that nobody is talking about it, but speaking anecdotally I saw a lot of discussion, fan art, and posts about it on Twitter and Tumblr both before and following its release.

To be honest, it gets harder and harder to take perspectives like "it's bad because it's too different" seriously when they've been common reactions among AFOLs for well over a decade at this point. I mean, look at the comments in this article: https://brickset.com/article/1595/ninjago-takes-a-new-direction-in-2012 Perspectives on the earliest set reveals for the Ninjago theme here on Eurobricks were often just as vitriolic, and it took years before AFOLs in general seemed ready to acknowledge that Ninjago was a lasting hit and not a short-lived fad that LEGO was dragging out for no reason.

Likewise, while I certainly recognize that German buyers are a significant audience for LEGO, it's hard for me to know what anecdotal insights about that market's preferences are really reliably accurate. As recently as 2017, LEGO was still the top selling toy brand in Germany by far, earning over more revenue than the next two top-selling manufacturers (Brandstätter and Ravensburger) COMBINED. It's hard to reconcile that with many of the anecdotal claims about German buyers' LEGO theme preferences (not yours specifically, mind you), which often seem to align a little too neatly with the AFOL community's general preferences for classic themes (trains, castle, pirates, space, etc) over newer or more "different" ones.

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14 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

It's hard to reconcile that with many of the anecdotal claims about German buyers' LEGO theme preferences (not yours specifically, mind you), which often seem to align a little too neatly with the AFOL community's general preferences for classic themes (trains, castle, pirates, space, etc) over newer or more "different" ones.

As I wrote in another thread about classic themes some of that stuff would sell like sliced bread simply based on historic backgrounds and "it's in our blood". Yes, we are all about knights and castles due to historic remnants of the mideval ages, romans, vikings etc. being scattered all over the place. Yes, Germany has been a very railroad-centric country due to the Deutsche Reichsbahn/ Deutsche Bahn being of key importance in many historic events and the development of the country. It's only natural that people would just love to see it reflected in LEGO as well. And there's perhaps the rub: LEGO isn't serving them particularly well so fo course they may be frustrated and consider things like the TLM2 sets and other waste of resources and not be welcoming to them.

You can't expect this to be rational, as this has been building for a decade now and those people by their nature are somewhat conservative to begin with. Does any of this preclude LEGO making a good buck with other themes outside of this difficult audience? Of course not, but I trust what I see and in so many cases the signs are pretty clear. Some themes just don't float and we can stand here all day and debate the matter, but I don't feel my personal observations deviate that much from what seems to be happening on a broader basis, which translates to that TLM2 just kinda went *poof*, both in cinemas and with the sets. I know it sounds pompous, presumptuous, arrogant and whatnot, but I'm pretty sure at some point we will have at least some numbers to back it up.

The rest could be argued in many ways, but I don't think just talking about sales figures is going anywhere without considering things like market penetration/ proliferation and ultimately how visible a brand is. I also think your example of Playmobil vs. LEGO is in fact flawed and based on wrong info, as the relevant numbers of the LEGO Deutschland GmbH (470 million EUR in 2017) are even worse than Playmobil (around 590 million EUR ) for the D/A/CH (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) region. Admittedly 2017 wasn't a good year for LEGO and you have to account for that, so it's probably fair to say they are on par rather than LEGO having a genuine market dominance here in Germany. Either way, no point in dragging this out further than it needs be.

Mylenium

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16 minutes ago, Mylenium said:

As I wrote in another thread about classic themes some of that stuff would sell like sliced bread simply based on historic backgrounds and "it's in our blood". Yes, we are all about knights and castles due to historic remnants of the mideval ages, romans, vikings etc. being scattered all over the place. Yes, Germany has been a very railroad-centric country due to the Deutsche Reichsbahn/ Deutsche Bahn being of key importance in many historic events and the development of the country. It's only natural that people would just love to see it reflected in LEGO as well. And there's perhaps the rub: LEGO isn't serving them particularly well so fo course they may be frustrated and consider things like the TLM2 sets and other waste of resources and not be welcoming to them.

I can get that with regard to castle, trains (as a non-driver I truly envy the value your country places in rail infrastructure), and I guess also Ancient Rome, but in a lot of cases I've seen people argue that the tastes of German kids, often citing long-running Playmobil lines as evidence, mean that LEGO should be regularly producing themes with decidedly non-German roots like Ancient Egypt, Pirates, Space, and Western. And I feel like those types of comments often speak more to AFOLs projecting their own preferences onto their country's youth than those kids genuinely having a far greater interest in those things than kids in other parts of the world.

The undeniable popularity of Ninjago in Germany, despite it drawing most of its cues from American action cartoons, Japanese anime and sentai series, and Chinese martial arts movies, also makes me question how much a theme's relevance to an area's cultural heritage really accounts for its popularity. There may be age-related considerations in play, though, since in general a lot of the weirder and wackier themes are aimed at older kids who are drawn to stuff that feels different than the familiar stories and interests that they have been surrounded by throughout their younger years.

Just as with adults, it's not always rational, but a lot of preteens and early teens tend to think of stuff they enjoyed when they were younger such as trains, big work vehicles like dump trucks and fire trucks, cute animal characters, fairy tales, and so on as "little kid stuff", and feel like they can't "grow up" or be accepted for their maturity without moving away from those interests. Incidentally, that was yet another very important lesson of The LEGO Movie 2 besides those about gender — the idea that "growing up" shouldn't have to mean rejecting who you used to be. That message is manifested variously by Emmet, Wyldstyle/Lucy, Sweet Mayhem, Rex Dangervest, and Finn himself.

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Decided to pass on the Rexelciors set.  Not really a fan of micro scale build.  But I do want the 2 exclusive figures.  Anyone know if anyone on brinklink is selling it yet?

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Found this tweet the other day after all the hubbub about sets being cancelled...

Tweet from Matthew Ashton, Design VP at LEGO and Executive Producer on TLM1/2

As he's strongly hinting, a set containing the Disco Benny minifig design is definitely still coming at this stage, which suggests to me that we're at least going to see the third wave this year and yalls've been panicing over nothing. :P

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