Tenderlok

Unauthorized selling of instructions for MOCs

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dtomsen said:

In my humle opinion he does great work for our community with his work and even though he should have asked explicitly for your permission, to throw him in with the rest of the sad examples in this thread is just as wrong,

Distributing someone else's work without their knowledge / permission is not acceptable. Full stop. And no, to raise issue with this is not "just as wrong".

@Tenderlok has every right ask for the removal of his work from unauthorized websites, regardless how much "great work" this unnamed person does.

Edited by CDM

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Posted (edited)

Sven, you are a great trainbuilder and seems a nice person so I’m sadden that you take offense where I’m quite sure none was intended. Only flattering imitation and wanting to share the instuctions to a great model once public with the community.

But he should have aksed you but probably didn’t know your past history.

However a few clarifying points:

The donations are not for your models explicit but for all the hard work he puts in the instructions and the upkeep of the website. And iti is up to people whether they want to donate or not. It is very typical of the sharing mindset. Also the instructions are definitely not just lazy copy-paste jobs but in some ways work of art themselves. But that is another discussion...like who has the copyright to them?

The person in question is also a nice honest person himself so if you ask him to remove the instructions and never do any of yours again publicly as you have, I’m quite sure he will comply without question.

Just to clarify, Sven, I do not question your rights to your own models in any way. I have myself seen my models sold as unique, reverse enginered and even put on LEGO Ideas without any acknowledgement of me, so I know the hurt. I’m just defending the integrity of said person.

Like you, I would hate that person to go silent or completly withdraw from the community.

 

CDM, when the integrity of said person which I know is on the table and not only his actions, it sure is ok to take issue and clarify things as long as you try to keep it as polite as possible.

Edited by dtomsen

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tenderlok said:

And it's no excuse that this has happened with other builders' creations, too.

I think you misunderstood me.

Insofar as I know, he has been in agreement with most if not all before making instructions, including me.

 

 

 

Edited by dtomsen

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1 hour ago, Tenderlok said:

@dtomsen I think we're talking about the same person.
Yes, he credits the original designers (albeit, in my case, misspelled). But that does not affect my main two points. First, that I feel hoodwinked when someone asks me questions about my models without claryfing his intentions, and then I accidentally find instructions for my models offered on his website; and second, that I simply do not like to see people taking (ever so little) money for something that is actually freely available.
And it's no excuse that this has happened with other builders' creations, too. Also, the community argument is not very valid in my opinion, for you can justify just any kind of plagiarism with it.

Another thought: Yes, he has turned the original LDD files into instructions, and yes, this is a certain amount of work. But all the little tweaks and tricks that are required to get such a model really working - I doubt he was able to completely identify and incorporate them. For example, one issue regarding smooth running characteristics, which he explicitely asked me about, is NOT addressed in the instructions. Now who will people blame if their model doesn't work properly? At least partly me. Had they received the files directly from me, we could have cleared up things from the beginning - for, as I wrote, technical advice is included.

To be honest, I'm tired of discussions like this. I'll be silent in this thread now, but will also draw my consequences regarding the future availability of detailed insight into upcoming models.

Hi Sven

I am sorry that you think I was trying to steal you design or take any credit for it.
I made the instructions because I like your designs and would like to make instructions so others could build your trains.
I respect your oppinion and have removed the instructions frorm my homepage.
I thought you would not mind my instructions as you shared the LDD files on Bricksafe.
I assumed wrong and I am sorry for the trouble.
It was never my intention to hoodwink you.
 

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I promised to remain silent now, but have to break my promise...
@snakebyte Thanks for your prompt reaction. I accept your apologies, so this particular case is closed for me.

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1 hour ago, Tenderlok said:

Thanks for your prompt reaction. I accept your apologies, so this particular case is closed for me.

Phew.

That was close. I believe your view, Sven, on this is very, very honorable. Kind of from an above, wise perspective. I like that very much.

@snakebyte Folks - >talk< to each other. It is so easy. But talk before you "do" something. Before you make - whatever it is - publicly available - simply talk. Ask for permission. In the sense of being kind - and much more importantly: In the sense of being honest. Don't take your actions as granted. People can't read your mind. Whenever there is an idea of making this world - our train world - a better place: Ask yourself: When I take something from someone and turn it into something else: Who came up with the "something" in the first place? That is so much of a difference!

When I was taking Ben Benekes BR23 mdp file he provided (for free and without any notice on his BrickShelf folder) and made an instruction, I asked him whether or not he would like to see this publicly available. He did nor only say yes, but I got so many tips and tricks, so many details from him - it was an experience I don't want to miss.

And I bet (a lot of … whatever) that @Tenderlok would have done the exact same thing.

All the best,

Thorsten  

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Posted (edited)

Ahh, Jimbricked, already stolen design from me as well...

Got this from him when YT took down his video containing my stuff:

"Alright Raáb Donát,

 
I don't know who the megabluck you are you piece of trash, but when I find out, it's over for you! You claimed Copyright on my video for my YouTube channel. I want a full explanation! My YouTube Channel is Jimbricked! "
Edited by Ashi Valkoinen

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21 hours ago, Ashi Valkoinen said:

Ahh, Jimbricked, already stolen design from me as well...

Got this from him when YT took down his video containing my stuff:

"Alright Raáb Donát,

 
I don't know who the megabluck you are you piece of trash, but when I find out, it's over for you! You claimed Copyright on my video for my YouTube channel. I want a full explanation! My YouTube Channel is Jimbricked! "

I guess he learned his "Don't steal things from other people" lesson just long enough to lose people's attention. Good to know that he's not just gone back to shamelessly stealing and profiting off other people's work, now he's throwing threats into the mix... Anyone still think this is just a naive misguided kid who doesn't understand that stealing is wrong?

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Noo, it is older, happened around the end of year 2017.  When I started to read this discussion I was pretty sure it will be him.

I wasn't wrong.

He told me that he found my design on some of TLC's pages and he didn't know that it may be protected. For first I didn't report his video BUT wrote a comment under the video that the design is not belonging to him then he deleted the comment without any replies or notice so I flagged the video and sent proof to YouTube that it is actually my design (it was easy since I announced that MOC on YT, just not in 2017, but 2011...).

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Ah, I understand.
Then, inappropriate as his actions were, nevertheless I think we should forget about that case. He seems to have learned his lesson since then.

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