aminnich

Lets talk color vomit

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46 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

+1 TLG had a real opportunity to use it. Such a shame. :cry_sad:

Yes if there were not such things as license...:wink:

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If I were a suspicious man I'd suspect LEGO of intentionally avoiding their tractor-like equipment from looking too Deer Johnny.

I know in the old days, gray pins rotated and black were friction; but with new colors of pins I don't know how to sort them anymore, and I agree it would be nice if they at least made the pins match the general color scheme (or went back to neutral colors).

Of course, I long for the days of 8880, back before we had panels covering everything (and even it has the blue arms).

Edited by bombcar

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I don't see any problem with colors because they are there for a very good reasons. Now many of you are AFOLs who are picky in terms of color selection to a certain extent but LEGO is still a toy. And look how kids/teens and youngsters play with it - they don't really care much about color of the their creations or proper shape or accurate steering implementations for example. I can give you some examples.

1. The color difference is a must have if the parts are kept in bulk (which is almost always the case with kids/teens/ some AFOLs) - it makes searching very easy and effective. How many times you had to look more than once to identify a 3L blue pin?

2. If you got 2 sets one in yellow and other in red - you pretty much gonna mix the colors anyway because of lack of parts, you may then start seeking a specific set which has certain parts in preferred color if you are old enough to care enough. Kids usually don't do this.

3. A lot of lego owners don't have super organized storage and  building cabinets where the lego parts are kept sorted by type, size and color. A lot of people keep it in the box or container of some sort. You can always identify that sound of somebody's palm moving through a pile of parts - like a Harley Davidson's motor - very unique pattern.

4. TLG has to use different colors so the owner (kid/teen/AFOL) has more diversity in building . If you had only black sets for example - you could never build a snowman but when you gained a significant amount of parts in one color like beams panels, tiles, axles - you can build something from a different "sector" so to speak.

5. Getting parts in preferred color is expensive. Like VERY EXPENSIVE. If you like that dark blue or dark green - well tough cookies since your selection of both parts and sets is pretty limited so you have to use them very strategically.

6. TLG has to make part selection economically viable for the production. It's not just mixing this or that dye with plastic. TLG has to plan and buy all sorts of pigments in different amounts based on whole production line - duplo, technic, star wars, trains, system etc. They must calculate the optimal solution based on the ingredient prices, their availability, shipping times, delays and they must include many many more variables in this equation to make sets profitable. Do you know that each color cost is different?

7. TLG has to do this to earn money to pay their workers and invest in development and production of new sets, parts, factories, maintenance etc. Did you know that one mould matrix costs at least 400000 EUR?  And they wear and tear beyond tolerance pretty quickly? How about getting parts that don't stick together eh?

8. TLG sells you the design (or 2 in case of B model or more) with all the parts to build it. If you have additional parts you can make it RF controlled, programmed, with enhanced speed, geared up etc. You can even re-arrange the parts of the original design to improve it to your own liking!

9. Lets be honest - don't you people have already accumulated enough parts to rebuild a small part of a set to fit to your color preference? 

 

It seems to me that a lot of AFOLs are getting too picky and spoiled - just look at yourselves - COLOR BARF, COLOR VOMIT etc. Like really? REALLY? Is that what you think of TLG? Go check their competitors or knock offs. TLG is one of the few good reliable manufacturer of plastic toys in terms if Q&C and this is what you think of them?

 

 

Edited by Omikron

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Personally I want my Lego sets to have consistent colouring for the particular model.

I don't really agree with the need of colour coding to make it easier for kids; I don't think ease of build is really a selling point in the technic line, rather complex builds that require precision.

And surely kids who are interested in the technic line are there for the challenge (I know as a kid that is one of the things that attracted me to technic... "back in my day we had to cut the tubing to length, and only had black axles that we had to length check before using").

Sadly technic is not as popular as other lines, but it does have a solid fan base, and I would argue that is where technic should stay focused. People who have trouble with finding the correct part (especially given numbered bags) are not going to be able to cope with the 3-dimensional build process of most technic anyway, It already requires a great degree of precision, right down to how fractionally tight or loose a gear is on an axle.

That said its up to what Lego thinks works best for the market; for me, I avoid purchasing the over the top colour vomit sets (there are already too many other sets I want to buy) but I can tolerate the odd part with a confusing colour choice.

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Precision required to build something in technic :laugh: ?  TLG did all the precision even before putting the parts in the bags.

Precision would be required if you had to drill your own holes for pins and cutting your own axles.

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I think LEGO is going for economy of scale.  Many of those technic pieces are also used in sets outside of the Technic theme like Friends sets geared toward 6-12 years old.  The sets in that age range tend to have multicolor building techniques for ease of building and quicker to completion.  I guess we need a new generation of kids with the same patience we had when we were kids to work though all those black axles of different lengths. 

Well, there is always Bricklink or manufacture your own parts in the colours you want.  We'll call it MOP.  :laugh:

 

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I am not picky, but I have always wondered why bulk Technic parts in all colors has never really been an option for us. Has a truly Technic only element ever showed up on a pick a brick wall? Well why not?

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13 minutes ago, Bublehead said:

I am not picky, but I have always wondered why bulk Technic parts in all colors has never really been an option for us. Has a truly Technic only element ever showed up on a pick a brick wall? Well why not?

I recall Technic turntables on the PAB Wall many years ago. 

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I know I am going to get shot down for this but here goes. To me color vomit is not even a real thing as far as LEGO is concerned. I guess I am just used to it or something. 

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I think it’s generally not worth getting into a tizzy over, because y’know, it’s done so it’s easier to find pieces. That being said, what does annoy me is bad colour schemes on sets e.g. the late yours truly 42080.

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Colour vomit to me is the pins, axles, connectors etc.

I've been buying black 2l axles and 3l pins which seemingly aren't produced any more in mass in sets. Can't afford the 2l pin with axle in black though on bricklink :( so have to stick with blue sometimes.

for me 42080 is very nicely coloured. twin tone green with white and yellow very nice...its the red and blue pins/hoses etc that ruin it for me.

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9 hours ago, I_Igor said:

Yes if there were not such things as license...:wink:

Like I said, 8283 has a Manitou colour scheme and I didn't see TLG getting sued over that. Granted, Manitou were using silver hubs in their telehandlers by 2006, rather than white, but still. Maybe they could have done 42080 with non-yellow hubs but kept the green.

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3 hours ago, Bartybum said:

what does annoy me is bad colour schemes on sets e.g. the late yours truly 42080.

 

2 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

Colour vomit to me is the pins, axles, connectors etc.

What this shows is that different people understand the word "color vomit" differently. I see at least 3 definitions (so far), that all mean something different and shouldn't be confused:

  • "ugly" color schemes - using green, white and lime on 42080 for example
  • the fact that many basic parts are color coded with bright primary colors, such as blue pins, red axles and yellow bushes
  • color coding of specific parts in specific sets, such as orange 2L beams and blue 2x0.5 beams in a red set, or the dark gray 5x9 beams in 42080's boom

Personally, of those three, the only one I have problems with is that last one. I don't care for the other two. I know 3L pins are blue, and this is the only color available for them. I don't mind. But why use orange 2L beams in a red model where black beams are perfectly available as well. Those weirdo-colored little bits is what makes the color scheme look messy, not the fact they mixed lime, white, green and black (to be honest, I really like the lime-white-green-black combo and I'm really glad to see those colors used).

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11 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

Another point: what is with the silver hubs on this thing?! Why not the lime hubs from the police car pull-back? They already exist

This sentence answers itself, really - we will get an opportunity to have those hubs in a previously unavailable colour.

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40 minutes ago, Gnac said:

This sentence answers itself, really - we will get an opportunity to have those hubs in a previously unavailable colour.

But they are available! Read the rest of my comment. They come in the Jakku Quadjumper and the Creator Ferrari, as well as a Nexo Knights set.

Edited by Maaboo35

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I see two issues, colour coding of parts which makes them easier to find and exterior main colour choices that some would find ugly. 

The first issue, the colour coding of parts is what I would call colour vomit and I just don't find it helpful. I built sets with lots of colour vomit and sometimes it's very difficult to find the part you need, it doesn't seem to help me at all. Even with all its colour coding the build for 42069 was quite frustrating at times due to not being able to find parts. I find a much better solution is numbered bags. Take a sets piece count, divide by about 250, and that's how many numbered bags you have. So the rough terrain crane would have about 16 bags, numbered 1 to 16, with roughly 250 parts in each bag. Doing this would negate the need for colour coding, make builds much more fun and would help limit the chances of making a mistake by using the wrong part, as you are greatly limited by the amount of parts to choose from. But maybe the reason is not only to make parts easier to find, but also to help with the building of the model. I recently bought a second hand 8880 off eBay, oh lord you wouldn't believe the build. For one, bevel gears were place in the right place, but backwards so they wouldn't mesh. The chain that drives the engine was connected to the steering instead of the engine and so on. I get that there are some out there that do struggle with more complex builds, then complain to Lego and their friends that the model is no good, but does colour coding help? It doesn't prevent diffs being put in backwards or bevel gears in the wrong way round. But then I don't have access to TLGs call centre data. Whatever the reason I'm so glad the 5x7 frames are coming in more colours, you'd struggle not to find one of those from a set.

The second issue is the gordy colours. 42070 never appeared on any top seller lists that I could see with its Gordy and stricking baby blue colours, RC and everything else which many proclaim to be great selling points for kids, whereas the Mack Anthem in its far more adult and tasteful dark grey appears to be more popular. Looking at other toys, the ones in striking gordy colours are the completely fantasy type robot mechs and fighting cars driving round loops and fighting death spinners and so on. The more reality based toys, like those based on real cars, trucks, diggers and so on tend to have much more tasteful and realistic colours.

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54 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

But they are available!

I'd totally forgotten about them (even though I did add them to my offline inventory ages ago)!

Most likely, those silver hubs were chosen because they're still in production for other models. An arguable advantage - considering the topic - might be that some folk would otherwise complain about snot-green hubs :|

Edited by Gnac
posting chute got all clogged with stuff

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4 hours ago, Maaboo35 said:

Like I said, 8283 has a Manitou colour scheme and I didn't see TLG getting sued over that. Granted, Manitou were using silver hubs in their telehandlers by 2006, rather than white, but still. Maybe they could have done 42080 with non-yellow hubs but kept the green.

Well we could look like this, just forgot about 8283 set, despite it is nice small telehandler...but I do not mind color vomit if there will be useful new parts like new tractor / forestry tires or similar :wink:

Edited by I_Igor

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4 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

Personally, of those three, the only one I have problems with is that last one. I don't care for the other two.

I probably has another opinion before, but I got used to it. I totally agree with Erik nowadays.

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I've come around to preferring the colour distinctions with the pins..

just not a fan of the yellow and red axles... I personally think that black for even, and LBG for odd was good enough... as well as the DBG for axles with stops (and red for 2L, since the black clashes with 2L friction pin

it's definitely easier when reverse engineering someones design, and you see blue friction pin end.. and you know it's a 3L,

 

I will use my old stash of black pins, when I am building something that needs to look a bit nicer.. but for most things I build (GBC's), it really doesn't matter at all :)

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As one poster pointed out, there's more than one definition to 'Colour Vomit', but I think we can all agree that the first definition was about releasing different coloured axles and pins for different lengths/functions. This post wiil be about that definition (after all, the rest is personal taste which can never be up to debate - I personally LOVE the forest harvester colour scheme, even though the set itself does nothing for me).

I used to be in the "LEGO has gone too far" camp, but here's the thing I was missing:

Many of the old sets that we AFOLs fawn about (yes, 8880 and 8480, I'm looking at ~you~), and sometimes even brag about having been able to build it without help from our parents (*), only had about 1000 pieces. OK, technically, the supercar had 1300, but many of those were system parts for the seats and bodyliines etc (in fact it could be argued that much of Technic back then was based on system bricks, such as a plethora of plates in all shapes and sizes, used to connect the studded beams).

Sets these days are often ~3000 pieces. The Arocs, a benchmark to many AFOLs, had 2800 pieces. The Rough Terrain Crane (which is looking more and more like it'll become the new benchmark for many builders) has what, 4000 pieces? And then there's the Bucket Wheel Excavator… That's 3 to 5 times more pieces, and many of them are no longer 'easy to identify' System, but in stead are mostly pins, slightly different pins, oh, and even more slightly more different pins.

So I think it is very unfair to claim that "kids these days" do not have the attention span we ourselves did when we were kids. We're actually expecting them to have 3 to 5 times our attention span of the (g)olden days, due to the sheer size of the sets, and that's not even taking into account that many of the pieces have become more difficult to identity (let's be honest here: a common complaint is that sets have too many pins - imagine if they all looked the same). Let's be even more honest: didn't we all brag (**) about being able to identify an 8-long from a 10-long axle by hard? Or a 10-long from a 12-long? Try as I might, I couldn't tell a 9-long from a 10-long today if it weren't for the colour coding. Of course, I could use the guide in the Building Instructions, but it's a new world today: kids build with a tablet as guide. They actually have to for the B-models.

Of course, there are still the smaller sets where the above doesn't really apply, but do we really expect LEGO to add pins/axles in Yet Another Colour - this time more neutral - to the smaller sets? And more importantly, kids to cope with ~that~ as well?

That said, the complete LHS suspension setup in red and the complete RHS suspension setup in blue on the 42070 (or whatever the actual colours were) ~is~ a step too far in my book, but then again: a) that set is a train wreck to begin with, and b) ironically, when Jim built it, he still managed to swap the sides (and yes, his excuse(s) were solid, but remember this is supposed to be assembled by kids).

 

(*) I get to call this out and be critical about it, because I used to be like this myself. In fact, while I was still a CFOL in the '80s, I had many LEGO building friends and we had many shared building sessions, but many friends didn't "do" Technic because they found it too complicated.

(**) I get to call this out and … x2

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19 minutes ago, RohanBeckett said:

I will use my old stash of black pins, when I am building something that needs to look a bit nicer.. but for most things I build (GBC's), it really doesn't matter at all :)

Wow :)  As earlier mentioned, taste is personal. I stacked up on black pins and axles for my GBC's. No blue pins in my GBC's even if I have to buy black axle pins for 1 Euro a piece these days.

I can understand why LEGO switched to color coded axles and pins but it's regrettable that the black stuff is becoming rare because of this. If one does not want to use color coded axles and pins, you can always replace the visible ones during a build but it will add a lot of cost.

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I don't have any problems with colour coded axles and liftarms. They make my building easier. When I have problems with is a gourdy pallet for appearances. 

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I prefer the wider color variety in modern sets. Much less needless frustration, much more time spent actually building instead of sorting or digging through parts. And even when those splashes of color are visible on the final model, I still tend to prefer the look—perhaps because it reinforces the complexity of the overall build rather than trying to cloak it all in an facade of "realism" (the same way I often prefer System MOCs that leave at least some studs exposed to those that hide them all away beneath tiles).

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