Lets talk color vomit

[aminnich]

Hey guys, 

We have seen now for the past couple years that color vomit has been becoming more and more popular. 

What do you think of it?  Do you think there is a particular reason for it?  (ease of building, cost, etc) Do you think that the color vomit is effecting Technic sales?  

Personally, I am not a fan.  I liked when we had the all yellow phase a while ago.  Sure a variety of color would be nice, but a huge selection of color for one set... no thanks.

 

[bombcar]

What's color vomit?

If it's referring to the multiple colors found inside models (not visible from the outside) it doesn't bother me - HOWEVER I would really like it if LEGO used those parts to make parts available in colors not used before. (I don't know how much it "costs" LEGO to switch colors, but I know there are a number of pieces I'd like to see in alternate colors.)

[N-4K0]

I'm not a big fan of it either, but it doesn't bother me too much.

The funny thing is, I built a fair amount of Technic sets when I was younger, between 1998 and 2002 or so and I don't ever recall having issues because of parts with the same color and similar shape like 2L/3L black pins, ditto axles etc. At least not much since I don't remember any.
I understand that there could be a need for a little bit of color coding, but not by far the extent that TLG uses today.

IMO they could have continued with even axles in black and odd axles in LBG and maybe all the other types in DBG and maybe Dark Tan if necessary, the 3L pins could have been made dark blue to become less visible than the blue ones we have now, the 3L pin with 1L axle could remain only in DBG etc.

I kinda do like gears and working mechanisms and stuff being a bit more visible through brighter colors, but I agree that axles and pins in particular could have blended more together.

[Bublehead]

Reposted from General parts discussion-

Thanks goes to @aminnich for starting this thread and this is a general statement to all, not a reply to him.

What does it take to get people to understand TLG’s reasoning on the color vomit?  The colors make finding parts easier during the build process, they remove confusion between similar parts and ensure THE CHILD has a better construction experience. Which, in turn, makes THE PARENTS’s have a better experience with their TOY purchase.

When a CHILD fails to complete a model due to using the wrong parts early in the build, the frustration and disappointment affects the overall acceptance of the TOY.  This translates back through the PARENTS as a poor TOY choice, limiting further SALES, which means TLG fails, and Technic Lego, as we know it, goes away.  

And remember, the vomit did not come from the designer. It comes from the Instructions and assembly group long after the designer hands over the final model for production.  The actual color scheme can be changed by the Marketing group which does play testing and focus groups to determine what appeals to the target age group.

If you fail to purchase a certain set due to it being ugly, just remember that all the sets you passed on were just another nail in the coffin when either Technic as a theme or TLG itself go out of business.

Now before all the trolls crawl out from under their keyboards to say they are not going to let TLG off the hook for crappy models and the color vomit, that all this seems to be not in their best interests if they are trying to sell models to YOU, but the truth is they are not trying to sell to AFOLs. They are selling to the parents of their target demographic, which just happens to be kids ages 9 to 16.

I have bought so many models that I hate, loath, or just simply scratch my head at, but I still bought them because parts is parts. If you don’t like a set, for whatever reason, I feel this is great fuel to feed the fire of rebuilding it to suit yourself. 

[N-4K0]

They don't have to e.g. make all the axles and friction pins black again, but they could have them in darker colors that doesn't stand out so much, but are still different.

[Bublehead]

Oh, did I mention, I hate the vomit, but have drunk the koolaid.

[1gor]

Look at this from economic point, there is limitation on number of different parts through year and colors, TLC does not make just Technic line and the same principle is presented in every LEGO production line because everything is connected. If anyone does not like this or that color combo, he or she can always buy some extra parts in "desired" color and make their "wish" model.

When doing so you can improve economic situation of whole LEGO Group (they will sell more sets / parts) 

 

[Pvdb]

58 minutes ago, Bublehead said:

What does it take to get people to understand TLG’s reasoning on the color vomit?  The colors make finding parts easier during the build process, they remove confusion between similar parts and ensure THE CHILD has a better construction experience. Which, in turn, makes THE PARENTS’s have a better experience with their TOY purchase.

Normally I don't think I would have replied to this topic, as I am not too bothered about different colour pins and axles etc etc given that neutral colours can be found if one needs them, BUT with the recent pictures of the 42080 Forest Harvester, Lego have taken things to a different level!!! 

What I find annoying is that Lego seem to get stuck on an abstract colour for a certain element such as a panel, and use it year after year without necesarily creating other elements of the same colour so we get a complete pallet, or because they are stuck on that colour, they will use this panel in place of a colour that is not currently in production - creating vomit!!!

I fully agree with Bublehead's assessment of things above however I don't particularly think that toys need to be simple.  I would prefer that my kids were trained to read slightly more difficult instructions and not everything handed to them on a plate.  Being able to read/concentrate/get thing right, comes in handy later on in life.   AND most kids can cope with a bit of challenge, and indeed enjoy it I think.

 

 

[Bublehead]

18 minutes ago, Pvdb said:

AND most kids can cope with a bit of challenge, and indeed enjoy it I think.

Agreed, most kids can, but in a market with high competition, any percentage of an advantage at repeat customers is a win in their books, so it makes it critical that children are satisfied and not frustrated. Trust me, if I was on a management team making this decision, I would vote for vomit if it reduces negative customer feedback but only if it offsets the negative feedback due to the vomit. They would need to do a comparison to fully get my vote. As this is a common business practice, however, I would be very surprised if TLG has not done this comparison and so the outcome was most likely a positive vote for vomit all around. I am afraid vomit is here to stay until the focus groups and forums like these highlight our displeasure with the ? ? ? (Disney’s Lost Lunch)

[aminnich]

1 hour ago, I_Igor said:

If anyone does not like this or that color combo, he or she can always buy some extra parts in "desired" color and make their "wish" model.

When doing so you can improve economic situation of whole LEGO Group (they will sell more sets / parts) 

2

I think that may be a big part of all this.  LEGO is giving you crappy colors in hopes you will buy the "right" colors for the set.  AKA more money in their pocket.  

49 minutes ago, Pvdb said:

I fully agree with Bublehead's assessment of things above however I don't particularly think that toys need to be simple.  I would prefer that my kids were trained to read slightly more difficult instructions and not everything handed to them on a plate.  Being able to read/concentrate/get thing right, comes in handy later on in life.   AND most kids can cope with a bit of challenge, and indeed enjoy it I think.

3

I agree with this, saying that they are using different colors to make the building process easy I'd say is a bit of a stretch.  If that is the case, shame on TLG.  

As a side note to all of this. This would not be the case if they did not get rid of the scaled pictures of the parts used every step of the instructions.  Remember when it gave you a 1:1 ratio of the axle/beam used every step.  That was nice as a kid, but now I am able to pick out the length by muscle memory haha.  

[sirslayer]

well if youre referring  to the forest harvester .....  Green goes with the color of the trees!!!!!!  enough said!! :)   

[Lipko]

I'm okay with color coding and also with color vomit in the internals (makes the chassis more interesting and exciting to me). But on the outside, please no unnecessary vomit. The forest harvester with its red parts all over the green place, is just makes it look like a toy for kids <6. And I guess Technic still isn't intended for that age group.

[jrx]

Talking about colors … I don't mind all the new colors. What bothers me is that always only a few parts come in new colors. So always when I'm building a new MOC I stuck because not all important parts are available in the designated color and I go back to the traditional colors. For example all the panels. There are some in these and some in theses colors. So you can't use them together. That's really anoying.

[Pvdb]

17 minutes ago, jrx said:

Talking about colors … I don't mind all the new colors. What bothers me is that always only a few parts come in new colors. So always when I'm building a new MOC I stuck because not all important parts are available in the designated color and I go back to the traditional colors. For example all the panels. There are some in these and some in theses colors. So you can't use them together. That's really anoying.

Absolutely.   And talking of panels, even worse is that some old/standard colours such as yellow are missing the full range (the small panels 21 and 22 in yellows case)

Edited May 22, 2018 by Pvdb

[jrx]

That are exactly the panels I was thinking about. If I'm not wrong these two small panels and the big curved panels with 10 holes are only matching in a handful of colors. That's disgusting ... (if one is planing to rebuild a MOC using these parts in another color/version).

2 minutes ago, Pvdb said:

even worse is that some old/standard colours such as yellow are missing the full range

This is so true also besides the named panels 

[bombcar]

Some real harvesters seem to be pretty vomity: http://www.threefff.com/?page_id=30

[Maaboo the Witch]

8 minutes ago, bombcar said:

Some real harvesters seem to be pretty vomity: http://www.threefff.com/?page_id=30

Nope, sorry. Nothing on 42080. It makes 42070's colour palette look uniform.

[aminnich]

13 minutes ago, bombcar said:

Some real harvesters seem to be pretty vomity: http://www.threefff.com/?page_id=30

how are those vomity?  They look gorgeous in green and yellow, John Deere is a beautiful color combo :D

 

[Maaboo the Witch]

7 minutes ago, aminnich said:

how are those vomity?  They look gorgeous in green and yellow, John Deere is a beautiful color combo :D

 

+1 TLG had a real opportunity to use it. Such a shame. 

[bombcar]

I must not be seeing it then - the only color that really looks out of place on 42080 is the white on the crane arm.

[aminnich]

looking at the picture, the main 3 colors are dark green, white and black.  

The "extra" colors are yellow (cant get by this because of the cylinders, but still lots of other yellow), red, the second green, 

[Maaboo the Witch]

4 minutes ago, aminnich said:

looking at the picture, the main 3 colors are dark green, white and black.  

The "extra" colors are yellow (cant get by this because of the cylinders, but still lots of other yellow), red, the second green, 

Don't forget the Aaaaaaaaaaaaarghzure drink bottle in the cab.

[Erik Leppen]

The problem with color vomit is not that a model is green with lime with a white boom and a black hood. I'm fine with multicolor models and I think most people are fine with multicolor models. I often like them better than monocolor models, even though monocolor models like the Porsche are better suppliers of good sets of parts in a single color. They seem to be the best way to fill the parts matrix of a given color. We saw that with white on the 42025 cargo plane.

The problem with color vomit is that in a model that is green with lime with a white boom and a black hood, this nitbit is blue, that nitbit is orange, this piece is brown, that piece is dark orange, all bushpins are red, pneumatics are yellow and blue, and so on and so on. It detracts from the coherence and looks like the model has smallpox.

Pneumatic cylinders should have been gray like LA's, or another neutral color (e.g. dark-gray), with pumps being black.

The other problem, indeed, is part supply. The forest harvester is green with lime with a white boom and a black hood, but what do you actually get in white? As far as I can see, 6 beams, 4 technic bricks and a few plates and slopes. And what do you get in lime? 8 panels. That's it (as far as we can see). I say, if you can't do it well, don't do it. If you can't do lime well, either fix the parts matrix in lime, or pick another color (green-white would have been fine, or green-yellow (although that may have got them into licencing trouble), or green-blue, or whatever.)

Why can't we get in lime what the first responder gives us in red? A full-colored model, not a black/gray chassis with 8 panels slapped on. And this has nothing to do with ease-of-build. Part availability, maybe, but this shows that the designers have as much trouble creating decent lime models as we have, so why don't they go and do something about that. Forget 5 types of blue, or dark purple or bright green (says me, who absolutely loves all those funky colors!). Get the parts range for the basic colors filled. The set of yellow panels should be complete by now (indeed). The set of yellow angle connectors should be complete. The axle joiner or the 3L "+oo" crossblock should exist in all primary colors, but both are missing in both white and blue. And if you introduce a new color, such as bright green, make sure its parts matrix is decently filled so designers can use it on more than 1 set. (I stocked quite a few bright -reen parts, but because of the lack of variety, I can hardly do anything with them. A monocolor bright-green model is out of the question.)

And all this, while, on the meantime, a Star Wars speederbike introduces tens of brown Technic pieces, and now introduces a brown 5x7 frame. Technic had to wait 10 years for a black 5x7 frame. That's as if they think color isn't important in Technic.

Shortly, we'll see how designers coped with all the colors of the 42080, afterall we expect a decent B-model, right?

Long story short, I think that all problems with color part availability are because Lego designers don't seem to intend their models to be part suppliers for people wanting to build their own stuff. They seem to design models merely to be built-as-prescribed, and played with as models. But that's not what Technic is for!

Edited May 22, 2018 by Erik Leppen

[Maaboo the Witch]

Another point: what is with the silver hubs on this thing?! Why not the lime hubs from the police car pull-back? They already exist, so including them shouldn't be a problem. The silver hubs have already been used in a couple of sets; thus, TLG shouldn't feel the need to spread them out any more than they have. It just looks like a stack of bad decisions to me.

[jrx]

Dear @Erik Leppen, I agree 100%!