Imperial Officers Mafia - Day Four

[Bob]

Voting is now open! With 11 players left, 6 votes are required to lynch. 

[Forresto]

Vote: Needa (Khscarymovie4) 

for the aforementioned reasons in my last two posts based on new evidence brought up by Dellus and others. 

[Sandy]

There's still the option that Thrawn, Dellus and Greer are all working together, though. Greer only needs to survive to win, after all.

I am still inclined to vote: Thrawn (mediumsnowman) because his voting has been more scummy than Needa's. I'll change the vote if a lynch is jeopardized.

[Forresto]

4 minutes ago, Sandy said:

There's still the option that Thrawn, Dellus and Greer are all working together, though. Greer only needs to survive to win, after all.

I am still inclined to vote: Thrawn (mediumsnowman) because his voting has been more scummy than Needa's. I'll change the vote if a lynch is jeopardized.

It's hard because with all the evidence on the table it feels 50/50 whose scummy and whose not.

I have a sense Thrawn is more likely innocent given the new information, but with two days devoid of scum kills I'm nervous.

Im certain someone is lying and I think tomorrow morning we'll know who one way or another.

[Sandy]

2 minutes ago, Forresto said:

I have a sense Thrawn is more likely innocent given the new information, but with two days devoid of scum kills I'm nervous.

Thrawn was blocked, that's confirmed. Isn't that the simplest explanation for a lack of scum kill?

[Peanuts]

16 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

You forget - we killed a scum last night. It's completely possible that Kovac had the kill ability and Needa or Thrawn is scum blocker. Then when Kovac got vig killed, I assume the scum blocking ability is gone and the kill ability moves to whichever one is scum. So we could still have just 1 scum left. 

For this to be true, how did the scum kill ability fail twice? They got Isard on night 1. I don't know how the abilities resolve if a killer is killed - usually both kills go through. A protector could have been successful 2 nights in a row. Or Thrawn is lying and was the scum killer and was blocked night 3 by Needa. That could work with him being a godfather. 

Fenton, did you get any message about being blocked night 1? Thrawn said he blocked me night 2. I'm vanilla town, so I cannot verify that claim. I'm wondering - if Thrawn is godfather, did the scum have any info on you or me. because without info, claiming blocker to me would be risky. Especially since he specifically claimed to have blocked me. If I was a PR, I could have outed him as a liar immediately. So I'm wondering if they rolecopped me, found I was vanilla, and so claimed to have blocked me. It's possible that the scum had a real blocker who blocked you night 1, so they would then know it was a safe claim to make. But that's all guessing here. 

I'm solidly in favor of the nuke option. Lynch one, vig kill the other, and see if we have a day 5 or not. I suspect we'll be done.

Thanks, I actually forgot about that. I guess it actually makes sense that Needa would have been the scum blocker who was upgraded now.

It's also possible that Komec was the blocker and Thrawn the Godfather, and that Thrawn simply lied about being the blocker. If Thrawn truly is scum, he would have needed to claim something, otherwise he would have been lynched right after we learned that Tarkin was town.

I can't verify that either, but it's fair to assume the scum had a blocker, whether it was Thrawn or not. They could have role-copped the both of us, or the claims coincide with who they truly blocked. It's impossible to say.

Just now, Sandy said:

There's still the option that Thrawn, Dellus and Greer are all working together, though. Greer only needs to survive to win, after all.

I am still inclined to vote: Thrawn (mediumsnowman) because his voting has been more scummy than Needa's. I'll change the vote if a lynch is jeopardized.

In my experience third parties tend to support the winning team, and that's undoubtedly us. I feel it would unnecessarily draw attention to Dellus, so I'm inclined to believe them both.

Instinctively I would say Thrawn has been the scummier of the two in the Day threads, particularly today. He felt very desperate to survive and not to be vig-killed. I will

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (Mediumsnowman)

[Tariq j]

23 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Did you mean Needa's loyalty? Daala was hammered by scum votes on both Day 1 and Day 2, so it makes her very likely to be loyal. Why would Needa then claim to her before he was under any suspicion if he was scum? That's what I'm questioning - although I could be the one who's being bamboozled here. ?

Ah ok, I thought you mean that Needa claiming to Daala suddenly made her town, but J get what you meant now.

28 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

For this to be true, how did the scum kill ability fail twice? They got Isard on night 1. I don't know how the abilities resolve if a killer is killed - usually both kills go through. A protector could have been successful 2 nights in a row. Or Thrawn is lying and was the scum killer and was blocked night 3 by Needa. That could work with him being a godfather. 

 

It’s possible the scum tried to convert on Nights 2 and 3, but inadvertently targeted town PR roles and so the conversions failed. In meetings I’ve been to in the past even if a players is killed during the night there action still goes through, so if Komec was the scum killer his action should have gone through even though he was killed, unless some kind of new game mechanic is in play.

It could also be that there was a jail keeper involved since they block and protect the target, so it’s possible they protected one of the scum’s targets and then on Night 3 blocked the scum themselves, but to have 2 blockers for the Town seems incredibly unlikely so I doubt this is likely.

[KotZ]

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (Mediumsnowman)

I don't care if Thrawn or Needa is voted off the Death Star today as long as the other one gets spaced tonight.

[Tariq j]

12 minutes ago, Sandy said:

Thrawn was blocked, that's confirmed. Isn't that the simplest explanation for a lack of scum kill?

But Thrawn was only blocked last night, not on Night 2 where there was also no scum kill. 

But there’s no point trying to divide the vote here, and whoever doesn’t get lynched will die in the night, 

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman)

[Rider Raider]

1 minute ago, Tariq j said:

But Thrawn was only blocked last night, not on Night 2 where there was also no scum kill. 

Maybe Ozzel wasn’t lying when he said that he could only kill every other night? Maybe night 1 the Scum killed Isard, night 2 they couldn’t kill, and night 3 they were blocked.

[mediumsnowman]

The kills could also have been stopped by a doctor. 

There’s a lot to digest here, especially with the claims from Greer and Dellus. I’ll have time to come back through and reply to everything later, but here’s the most important thing:

I believe Dellus since I know I’m town and there’s no way otherwise he could have known about Greer. If Fenton has a PR, he should be able to confirm that I blocked him Night 1. 

I don’t see how I could be both the blocker and Godfather since traditionally Godfather loses investigaton immunity if he inherits a role, as has been hypothesized here. 

Obviously I’ll Vote: Needa (Khscarymovie4) and should be back later for more discussion, especially on the lynch vs. vig kill discussion.

[Peanuts]

2 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

It’s possible the scum tried to convert on Nights 2 and 3, but inadvertently targeted town PR roles and so the conversions failed. In meetings I’ve been to in the past even if a players is killed during the night there action still goes through, so if Komec was the scum killer his action should have gone through even though he was killed, unless some kind of new game mechanic is in play.

It could also be that there was a jail keeper involved since they block and protect the target, so it’s possible they protected one of the scum’s targets and then on Night 3 blocked the scum themselves, but to have 2 blockers for the Town seems incredibly unlikely so I doubt this is likely.

Well, I remember watching a holomovie called "Noir Mafia", where the vig and the blocker targeted each other, but because the vig got his action in first the blocker was killed. It's an old movie, before my time, and I don't think something crazy like that would still happen these days. But it happened before.

Yes, there's any number of explanations why there wouldn't have been a kill. There's nothing wrong with sepculation, but we'll see tomorrow if there's still traitors left to hunt down. If so, we can get worried about all kinds of shenanigans like conversions. If not, maybe we'll learn what exactly happened.

[Khscarymovie4]

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman) 

Need I explain? 

Really hoping this is the last of the scum here.

[mostlytechnic]

For simplicity, I will 

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman)

and then I wholeheartedly suggest that Needa be vig killed tonight to be safe. 

I will also note that we do NOT have to eliminate 3rd parties, according to the rules, in order to win. So we don't have to kill off Greer unless we just want to :) But at the very least, he can wait till night 5, if we have a night 5. 

[fhomess]

1 hour ago, Forresto said:

It's hard because with all the evidence on the table it feels 50/50 whose scummy and whose not.

I have a sense Thrawn is more likely innocent given the new information, but with two days devoid of scum kills I'm nervous.

Im certain someone is lying and I think tomorrow morning we'll know who one way or another.

The lack of scum kills is what's bothering me, too.  I'm sure there's a logical explanation for it.  I think we've had confirmation of the blocks on both nights, and they don't really line up.

Night 2: Piett blocked by Needa, Motti blocked by Thrawn

Night 3: Thrawn blocked by Needa, Thrawn's block failed

If you assume that Thrawn is scum due to the night 3 block, and that is the reason there was no scum kill last night, then that suggests that Piett is town.  Piett has been going after Thrawn all day.  That leaves open the question of what happened night 2.  Protection, I guess.

If you assume that Needa is scum, then Motti could have been prevented from killing on night 2.  That leaves open the question of what happened last night.  Protection, I guess.

Given the counterclaims, the block last night, and the voting record, I lean towards Thrawn being scum.

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman)

[Rider Raider]

Since the Town seems to want to lynch Thrawn and kill Needa, I will go along with that, hoping we can kill the last scum.

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman)

[mediumsnowman]

Are you all really going along with this? This is absurd, frankly. If I were scum I would have nothing to gain and everything to lose by claiming first. Needa is the last scum.

Are you really going to vote against the investigator? Dellus can't be lying since there's no other way he could have known about Greer. The idea that Greer and Dellus are working with me is also ridiculous, since there's absolutely no way there are SIX scum in this game.

Stop going with the flow and USE YOUR HEADS. This lynch doesn't make sense. I told you the scum were going to try and use the fact I was blocked last night to say that's the reason there was no scum kill - except Dellus investigated me and found me loyal. I can't have been carrying out the kill AND held investigation-immunity last night!

If Piett and Fenton want to do mental gymnastics to figure me as the last scum, go for it, but you don't have to listen to them! Vote for Needa and end this game now. If he flips town, which he won't, kill me tomorrow! What difference does one night make when the scum are probably down 1-1-9? Listen to yourselves! 

Are you really going to lynch your own blocker when the truth is staring you in the face? 

[mostlytechnic]

Here's the problem - if you are town, why do you care about surviving till night? What is wrong with the plan to lynch you and vig kill Needa vs doing the opposite? Why would we leave either one of you alive at this point? With conflicting claims, and 3 scum already caught, the safe plan is to eliminate BOTH of you. Period. Leaving either alive to tomorrow is foolish.

So again, if we're killing both of you off, why do you care which order UNLESS you have a reason to make it to the night? Like you are desperately wanting a slim chance to block the vig and save yourself to tomorrow? Or you actually do have a convert ability you want to use? 

If you are loyal, you should see that eliminating both of you is the correct path for the town and not be upset by getting lynched. The only reason a truly townie version of you would care about the order (lynch vs vig) is because you wouldn't want a scummy Needa to have that chance of blocking the vig kill. But hey, if we lynch you and Needa survives the night somehow, I am positive who would get lynched tomorrow!

Your arguing is digging your hole deeper in my opinion. Yes, you got "cleared" by the investigator. But you legitimately could be the godfather and never have blocked anyone. It's not enough proof to keep you alive, so I go back to the top of this post and say you both need to be eliminated. It's the safest plan for town to win. And that SHOULD be your goal too.

[LegoRacer1]

Vote: Captain Needa(Khscarymovie4)

Why vote Thrawn? He may be Godfather but at least I have info that says it's most likely Needa! Like Thrawn said use your heads!

[Sandy]

53 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

Vote: Captain Needa(Khscarymovie4)

Why vote Thrawn? He may be Godfather but at least I have info that says it's most likely Needa! Like Thrawn said use your heads!

I can almost understand Thrawn's panicking, but why do you care which one is lynched and which one is killed in the night? Your role will be confirmed anyway.

If I haven't missed anything, you still haven't told who you investigated on Night 1. We could really use that info.

[LegoRacer1]

10 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I can almost understand Thrawn's panicking, but why do you care which one is lynched and which one is killed in the night? Your role will be confirmed anyway.

If I haven't missed anything, you still haven't told who you investigated on Night 1. We could really use that info.

Oh, sorry I missed that. This might sound odd but it was Tarkin. I dint want to say earlier because if he was Godfather I would be lynched right now, or dead for that matter. No one trusted me before, and if  I said he was town forget it.

4 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

Here's the problem - if you are town, why do you care about surviving till night? What is wrong with the plan to lynch you and vig kill Needa vs doing the opposite? Why would we leave either one of you alive at this point? With conflicting claims, and 3 scum already caught, the safe plan is to eliminate BOTH of you. Period. Leaving either alive to tomorrow is foolish.

So again, if we're killing both of you off, why do you care which order UNLESS you have a reason to make it to the night? Like you are desperately wanting a slim chance to block the vig and save yourself to tomorrow? Or you actually do have a convert ability you want to use? 

If you are loyal, you should see that eliminating both of you is the correct path for the town and not be upset by getting lynched. The only reason a truly townie version of you would care about the order (lynch vs vig) is because you wouldn't want a scummy Needa to have that chance of blocking the vig kill. But hey, if we lynch you and Needa survives the night somehow, I am positive who would get lynched tomorrow!

Your arguing is digging your hole deeper in my opinion. Yes, you got "cleared" by the investigator. But you legitimately could be the godfather and never have blocked anyone. It's not enough proof to keep you alive, so I go back to the top of this post and say you both need to be eliminated. It's the safest plan for town to win. And that SHOULD be your goal too.

Just saw this, and it makes sence.

Unvote:Captain Needa(Khscarymovie)

Vote:Grand Admiral Thrawn(mediumsnowman)

[mediumsnowman]

30 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

Oh, sorry I missed that. This might sound odd but it was Tarkin. I dint want to say earlier because if he was Godfather I would be lynched right now, or dead for that matter. No one trusted me before, and if  I said he was town forget it.

Just saw this, and it makes sence.

Unvote:Captain Needa(Khscarymovie)

Vote:Grand Admiral Thrawn(mediumsnowman)

If you knew Tarkin was town why didn’t you say anything yesterday when he was being lynched? 

Why are you voting against your own investigation result?

I am continually baffled by absolutely everyone today... voting against the cop, voting against the initial claim, voting against logic and reason... what’s next? 

[mediumsnowman]

I’ll implore you to change your vote to Needa one last time. There’s still time to turn it around. It’s genius what he’s done - by counterclaiming and pretending not to care about surviving he’s bought himself an extra night to do whatever nefarious things he wants - including convert, as a worse case scenario. I’m town, the investigator told you so - I simply can’t be the Godfather. It doesn’t line up with the blocks and supposed kills I was stopped from performing. Lynch Needa and end this game now. Use your heads! Doesn’t something about this feel off? 

[Bob]

Vote Count:
Captain Needa / Khscarymovie4 - 2 (Forresto, mediumsnowman)
Grand Admiral Thrawn / mediumsnowman - 9 (Sandy, Peanuts, KotZ, Tariq j, Khscarymovie4, mostlytechnic, fhomess, Rider Raider, LegoRacer1)

Everyone has voted and there is a clear majority for one player. The day will end 24 hours early unless something major happens. 

[Tariq j]

47 minutes ago, mediumsnowman said:

- by counterclaiming and pretending not to care about surviving he’s bought himself an extra night to do whatever nefarious things he wants - including convert, as a worse case scenario. 

But even he tries do something and succeeds, like blocking the Vig, we just lynch him tomorrow. A conversion wouldn't be great, but numbers wise we are still okay.