Imperial Officers Mafia - Day Three

[mostlytechnic]

General Veers - you're the only one who has not placed a vote this day. Care to remedy that? We do have time now, but it would be nice to see how you're thinking. So far you've been very quiet. 

[Sandy]

I don't know what good dragging out this day does to us since nobody seems to have anything new to bring to the table, but so be it.

I'd still vote for Tarkin over Thrawn today since he had no way of pre-empting Jellico's demise. So, maybe the scum felt safe yesterday trying to draw the crowd's attention to me instead of two of their own. Of course Tarkin's blatant preaching over being "99% sure Ozzel is loyal" would be a major fluke for a scum player, but - WIFOM - maybe Tarkin wanted us to think so too. After all, the lynch was already confirmed and Tarkin knew what he had already said.

Tarkin's vanilla claim also makes it easier for us to lynch him - if he turns out town, we won't lose a PR. Thrawn and Needa for example are riskier choices in that sense at this point.

[KotZ]

53 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I don't know what good dragging out this day does to us since nobody seems to have anything new to bring to the table, but so be it.

I'd still vote for Tarkin over Thrawn today since he had no way of pre-empting Jellico's demise. So, maybe the scum felt safe yesterday trying to draw the crowd's attention to me instead of two of their own. Of course Tarkin's blatant preaching over being "99% sure Ozzel is loyal" would be a major fluke for a scum player, but - WIFOM - maybe Tarkin wanted us to think so too. After all, the lynch was already confirmed and Tarkin knew what he had already said.

Tarkin's vanilla claim also makes it easier for us to lynch him - if he turns out town, we won't lose a PR. Thrawn and Needa for example are riskier choices in that sense at this point.

At this point we're in hurry up and wait mode. I think though that we have a solid test to see what happens the next day.

[fhomess]

So I've had a chance to go through the past two days in detail and I can't find anything in there that suggests Tarkin is not scum.  Some of the highlights of what I found:

• Day 1 - Tarkin suspects those who really want a day 1 lynch
• Day 1 - Tarkin said he didn't see how accusing and finger pointing would help our efforts to catch scum (vs. discussing whether or not to lynch)
• Day 2 - Tarkin expresses non-committal suspicions of Fenton and Piett
• Day 2 - Tarkin implies strongly that Piett may have been responsible for Isard's death (in context of the notion that perhaps Isard responded to Piett's question about a twist)
• Day 2 - Tarkin says that between Ozzel, Daala, and Jellico, he would pick Ozzel, but keeps his vote on Piett at the time.
• Day 2 - Tarkin says he's 99% sure that Ozzel is town

That last comment is really the only one that isn't something I would expect from a scumbag.  Why express such certainty if you knew you were lying?  I don't feel strongly that Tarkin is town and would happily vote for him to complete the lynch.  We already have enough votes, and I think we have a stronger candidate...

 

The other person that has struck me as particularly noteworthy, and has been identified by others as well, is Grand Admiral Thrawn.  Thrawn was fairly withdrawn during the first day in terms of noteworthy commentary.  However, on day 2 he tries to scuttle the bandwagon on Ozzel early on, voting for Motti.  He later comes back around to state that the thinks the attack on Ozzel is a coordinated scum plot.  When he casts his vote for Daala, it's vote 4, that broke a 3-vote tie with Ozzel.  We know that votes 2 and 3 on Daala were both scum, as it was Ozzel and Jellico.  I think this was a concerted effort to get Ozzel in the clear.  Later, when Thrawn switched his vote from Daala to Piett, that put Piett at 4 votes, too.  At the time, Jellico was at 4 and Ozzel at 5.  So this was yet another effort to bring a non scum into the voting candidate pool.

Vote: Grand Admiral Thrawn (mediumsnowman)

[jluck]

2 hours ago, Peanuts said:

I wouldn't say you two are catching flack for the same thing. Thrawn, the way I see it, has consistently been steering clear of any scum, neither really accusing nor defending them. All he said about Ozzel was "Ozzel is Ozzel, Daala is the same, let's kill Daala" and "I'd rather kill Piett than Jellico" (slightly paraphrased). You actively defended scum members. I think the former is more scummy, because it is what I usually did when I was going on undercover operations, early in my career in the Imperial Navy. But both is scummy, and we can lynch Thrawn tomorrow.

Are you suggesting Thrawn may be a third party? Why?

I feel you contradict yourself a bit there. If you are the first to vote and the others are just bandwagoners, it's fair to say you guided the vote. If the other people have suspicions of their own, in an ideal world your vote should have had no influence on them. I was a bit worried about Thrawn casting the first vote, but honestly, what else would he do? Tarkin and Thrawn were the two big suspects today, and he'd need a damn convincing case to get someone else lynched. If he's scum, being the first to vote for Tarkin is the right move, no matter if Tarkin is town or scum. If he's town, being the first to move if also the right move. So I feel Thrawn's vote doesn't say anything about the validity of Tarkin as a lynch target.

About the timing, it was random, at least on my part. It's 10pm, which is a good time to be active for me. No idea about Tarkin, maybe the scum were just waiting for someone to unvote, or maybe they were waiting for one of their own to unvote and I surprised them, or maybe it was uncoordinated. Here's a question, though: Assuming this was all a coordinated scum plot, why not execute it before the time runs out? If Vader had sent us all to sleep on time, none of it would have happened to begin with.

We already know it was a scum plot as Ozell came up scum. Who knows why it wasn’t sooner, but it was a scum play and it does tie you to the scum by extension. 

[Peanuts]

32 minutes ago, jluck said:

We already know it was a scum plot as Ozell came up scum. Who knows why it wasn’t sooner, but it was a scum play and it does tie you to the scum by extension. 

Of course it was a scum plot, but the question is was it coordinated. You said it felt coordinated, I asked if the scum wouldn't have executed it earlier if it had been. I'm not arguing it ties me to the scum in the sense that if I had been successful in unvoting, Ozzel would have stayed alive for the time being.

[mediumsnowman]

Apologies for my absence. I’ve been following the thread but haven’t had a chance to compose any sort of response.

I feel like I’ve already addressed many of the points brought against me and people are just repeating each other. Be wary of these band wagoners - Veers, Fenton, Dellus - all come to mind.

If whoever killed Jellico is thinking about taking me out tonight I would heavily advise not doing that. Let’s see how the lynch on Tarkin plays out and go into tomorrow with a clear mind. 

[fhomess]

On 5/5/2018 at 10:33 AM, mediumsnowman said:

Analyzing Jellico’s contributions should also prove fruitful. I find it intriguing he was one of the last few hammer votes on Ozzel, and we may not have had a lynch without him. Maybe they didn’t know they were teammates? 

Going back through today, a bit, I noticed this... Jellico didn't vote for Ozzel.  Maybe you mean Kormec.  Maybe me?  I have no idea who you mean here.

On 5/5/2018 at 1:45 PM, mediumsnowman said:

As I’ve said a few times I agree this looks bad on my part, when you just boil it down to “he avoided voting for Ozzel and Jellico.” 

In reality it’s a lot more nuanced than that. Ozzel threw us all for a loop and I was wary of lynching him for what has been proven time and time again to not be indicative of his alignment. I’m glad it worked in our favor this time, however.

As for the Jellico/Piett split, as you can see, I did not have time to properly analyze each as I had been mostly focused on the Daala/Ozzel discussion and was quite literally walking out the door.

I didn’t have a strong read on either, but knew we needed a lynch, and honestly Jellico’s behavior yesterday reminded me of her gameplay in Tria by Jury, where she was town. That left Piett to vote for since Daala was nowhere near close enough to lynch or justify leaving my vote on when the final vote ended up being so slim. 

It looks bad on my part when you don’t consider all the factors involved, especially in my rushed vote at the end.

I guess I don't see a huge difference between your defense and Tarkin's.  You're basically saying the same thing.  You're getting the pass because Tarkin was more forceful in his defense of Ozzel and Jellico, but I think your actions yesterday in terms of the voting record are just as suspicious.

On 5/6/2018 at 6:02 AM, Peanuts said:

I mostly agree. I have fairly strong town reads on you, for pushing against Jellico and hammering Ozzel, Admiral Motti, since he initiated the lynch against Ozzel, and also Shelby and Yularen, who voted early for Ozzel, when the scum would have no interest to see a bandwagon form.

Everyone seems to be lumping Shelby and Yularen together in terms of the early bandwagon votes for Ozzel, and while it's true that they voted simultaneously, it's not like they're the same person.  If you look at yesterday's comments, Shelby was far more interested in making it clear that he wanted to keep his vote on Ozzel.  Yularen didn't really comment that much and looks a lot more like he was just along for the ride.  If there are two scum on the Ozzel bandwagon, I wouldn't be surprised that Yularen was one of them.

21 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Not that it matters, but I'd hate to go out having not voted. Even if it's useless. So I'll vote for Piett for old times sake. 

Vote: Admiral Piett (Sandy)

This is a total throwaway vote.  It doesn't make you look good at all, and basically is just giving up.

20 hours ago, Forresto said:

You keep dismissing Ozzel lynch as luck as if those like Yularen and myself didn't have reasons for voting for Ozzel.

The fact that you are including yourself in the same category as Yularen is a bit odd.  Do you think that Yularen was just as interested in the Ozzel lynch as you were?

18 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

We absolutely got lucky. We can’t go patting ourselves on the back for catching Ozzel when he was acting exactly as he always has. The case against him this time was weak at best, it just happened to work out. Scum tells for the majority of people are not necessarily tells for Ozzel, if that makes sense. 

This sounds like sour grapes to me.  "You got my teammate but for the wrong reasons!"

9 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

Which is funny, because both Veers and Komec have been pinging me as scummy all game, but it's just a feeling, not anything I can point to. 

Probably because we've had some good times in the past, no?

4 hours ago, Sandy said:

I don't know what good dragging out this day does to us since nobody seems to have anything new to bring to the table, but so be it.

...

Tarkin's vanilla claim also makes it easier for us to lynch him - if he turns out town, we won't lose a PR. Thrawn and Needa for example are riskier choices in that sense at this point.

Personally, I hate it when days end too early... see Mafia Mafia's final day.

2 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

If whoever killed Jellico is thinking about taking me out tonight I would heavily advise not doing that. Let’s see how the lynch on Tarkin plays out and go into tomorrow with a clear mind. 

This looks like some kind of Jedi mind trick.

[Forresto]

Just now, fhomess said:

The fact that you are including yourself in the same category as Yularen is a bit odd.  Do you think that Yularen was just as interested in the Ozzel lynch as you were?

He stuck with his vote when voting for Ozzel was unpopular so I have to give him at that credit.

I don't know if he was as motivated, I really put my neck out, if Ozzel turned town it would've been really bad for me today. He may have escaped unscathed if attention was focused on me. 

Yularen could've avoided that risk by switching votes after Thrawn tried to taint the Ozzel vote and no one would've really cared. 

[KotZ]

Well, I'm town and Ozzel felt the most scummy to me at the time. If I was scum I wouldn't have voted that early.

[LegoRacer1]

1 hour ago, fhomess said:

This sounds like sour grapes to me

@mediumsnowman  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e7Zax6nyWEY

 

[Trekkie99]

Hello everyone. I'll be with you shortly.

[Trekkie99]

(Very tired tonight everyone. My apologies. I hope to get some thoughts in in the morning.) 

[Tariq j]

On 03/05/2018 at 9:14 PM, Bob said:

Final Vote Count:
Admiral Ozzel/Actor Builder - 8 (mostlytechnic, KotZ, Forresto, jluck, Sandy, Tariq j, Peanuts, fhomess)
Admiral Piett/Sandy - 4 (LegoMonorailFan, Rider Raider, Lady K, mediumsnowman)
Admiral Daala/Rider Raider - 1 (Actor Builder)
Captain Jellico/Lady K - 1 (Khscarymovie4)
Colonel Dellus/LegoRacer1 - 5 (penalty)

The day has concluded with Admiral Ozzel / Actor Builder being lynched! A day conclusion will be up shortly! 

Something that struck me, we know Tarkin built (and has been building) a case on Piett since Day One, we know Jellico was scum, and he voted for Piett, if Tarkin is scum then it seems likely they were trying to build a case against Piett here, possibly trying to get him lynched instead of Ozzel. Given that two scum have died already it seems odd that Tarkin would admit defeat without a fight though.

[Trekkie99]

4 hours ago, Tariq j said:

Something that struck me, we know Tarkin built (and has been building) a case on Piett since Day One, we know Jellico was scum, and he voted for Piett, if Tarkin is scum then it seems likely they were trying to build a case against Piett here, possibly trying to get him lynched instead of Ozzel. Given that two scum have died already it seems odd that Tarkin would admit defeat without a fight though.

I built a case against Piett because I thought he was suspicious. Piett was building a case against Jellico and Ozzel, and because  I was suspicious of Piett, I decided for the time being that there was a chance that Jellico and Ozzel were maybe innocent.

As I've stated before, I did have some suspicions of Jellico, but I was way more suspicious of Piett. Because Jellico was willing to lynch Piett, it would have shed some light on Jellico's loyalty if we had managed to lynch Piett. If Piett turned up as scum, it would put Jellico and maybe Ozzel in the clear. If Piett flipped town, then his suspicions of Jellico and Ozzel would possibly prove true, and we would be lynching one of those two today.

In the end, Ozzel was lynched, and Jellico was killed. Both turned up as scum, and because I defended them because I was suspicious of Piett, this put me in the spotlight looking very suspicious. Also, because the now confirmed traitorous Jellico voted voted for Piett, this put Piett in the innocent category strongly for myself and probably many others.

So why did I surrender? Because unless a town investigator were to prove my innocence, I would remain a strongly suspicious looking character. I decided the best thing for the town in this scenario is that I'm removed in order not to be a further distraction. Also, I'm glad the lynch was settled on quickly. This offered more time for discussion on what tomorrows actions should be.

I'm not sure if I'll be present when the day ends, so I'll leave you with this.

[Bob]

Vote Count: 
Grand Moff Tarkin / LegoMonorailFan - 7 (mediumsnowman, KotZ, Sandy, Peanuts, LegoRacer1, Tariq j, Rider Raider) 
Grand Admiral Thrawn / mediumsnowman - 3 (Khscarymovie4, Forresto, fhomess)
Admiral Shelby / Forresto - 1 (LegoMonorailFan)
Captain Fenton / Peanuts - 1 (jluck)
Colonel Dellus / LegoRacer1 - 1 (mostlytechnic)

The day has ended with the lynch of Grand Moff Tarkin / LegoMonorailFan! A day conclusion will be up shortly. Please get your night actions in! 

[Bob]

Grand Moff Tarkin / LegoMonorailFan stood in front of the others, condemned. 

"This is absurd. I've devoted my life to the Empire, the Emperor, the Death Star, the Imperial Senate, the Imperial Fleet, the Imperial Army--"

"Alright, alright, that's enough." Boba Fett said.

The Governor/Grand Moff walked ahead of those taking him in.

"Now how are we going to do Episode 4 if he's being taken away?" someone asked.

~~~

The faster you get your night actions in, the quicker Day Four will arrive!