Making Eurobricks More Active

[Celloguy]

My suspicion is that instagram is stealing many people away from forums these days... There has been a boom in the Lego community there, to the extent that many have left Flickr altogether for instance, and Flickr is certainly suffering - comments there are far fewer and likes too it seems. These communities are invaluable though, so I am delighted that you are continuing to innovate and put in the effort to make this forum thrive. 

[Holodoc]

Thanks for your input in this matter!

The problem with flickr began when the owner wanted to start making money with the website... At least for me that was the time to look for another image hoster - and a lot of people did so, too.
I said it before and I say it again: It's all a matter of time. I wished I was able to spend more time on EB, but there are so many other objectives that also need my time.

[MAB]

On 5/26/2020 at 7:14 PM, Celloguy said:

My suspicion is that instagram is stealing many people away from forums these days... There has been a boom in the Lego community there,

Is there a good way of seeing lego content there? I find it really useless, as most tags I search for have so much crap come up, usually nothing to do with the tag, as the poster uses so many irrelevant tags to get hits.

 

[anders67]

It is not just Eurobricks that is suffering of less activity, other AFOL forum is experience the same trend of less activity. We can see it less visits to the forum, less comments and likes, and also loosing to the dark ages again.

the reasons, other social media is one reason, is it wrong? No it is just a change we have to accept.

Another reason might be the forum require more ”skills” to post and upload photos compared to FB or Insta, even thou eurobricks has a very nice and modern UX compared to f.ex simple machine UX 

[Kai NRG]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Is there a good way of seeing lego content there? I find it really useless, as most tags I search for have so much crap come up, usually nothing to do with the tag, as the poster uses so many irrelevant tags to get hits.

If you follow some LEGO blogs or stuff (like The Brothers Brick - and Eurobricks, for that matter) they'll often link you to featured builders whose streams are worth following.  I follow mostly builders myself so I get mostly relevant suggestions for others to follow.  Or I guess you could find a good builder and go through their following.

There's definitely some great LEGO content on IG.

[Trekkie99]

15 hours ago, MAB said:

Is there a good way of seeing lego content there? I find it really useless, as most tags I search for have so much crap come up, usually nothing to do with the tag, as the poster uses so many irrelevant tags to get hits.

You just gotta wade thru a lot of crap to find something good.  There definitely is some good content on there, but finding it is hard. If you browse under #lego, you'll find a lot of content, which most probably won't be that good. But if you browse under #legotrain, You'll find some good stuff, but you might miss out on something good if someone didn't use that hashtag. If you do find something you like though, make sure it was posted by the original creator and follow them if you like their other content and wanna see more. 

One thing though is that Instagram has countless MOC showcase accounts that post everyone else's models.  This would be fine if it was content that wasn't on Instagram already by the original creator (like dude?  ), and was instead content from elsewhere that you couldn't find on Instagram, and if they actually told you how to find the original creator!

Also Flickr had Groups and I miss that on Instagram. Honestly Flickr was perfect and I get bummed everytime I think about it. 

Oh and also all the accounts that post nothing but minifigs in the outdoors.  Who is that even for? 

Basically Lego is way more popular these days and Instagram has a lot of different audiences (five year olds) so there's gonna be a lot of content put out for them.

[Umbra-Manis]

@Trekkie99 Those MOC showcase accounts are the worst! I recently added instagram to my lego repertoire and I always see these cool builds in explore and want to follow the Creators not some nonsense account that uploaded the image without credit. 

The key to good content on insta is definitely to follow builders though, follow the ones you like and then you should get recommendations pretty quickly to find other good ones. 

[Celloguy]

On 5/27/2020 at 7:42 PM, MAB said:

Is there a good way of seeing lego content there? I find it really useless, as most tags I search for have so much crap come up, usually nothing to do with the tag, as the poster uses so many irrelevant tags to get hits.

 

There is lots of crap, but you can use tags to find things you might be interested in, then only follow those people who have posted builds which you admire. In a sense its similar to Flickr in the sense that you can look through groups to find builds which you like, and follow those builders whose work catches your eye. It's not as good as Flickr though because the image quality is so low.

[Trekkie99]

10 hours ago, Umbra-Manis said:

and then you should get recommendations pretty quickly to find other good ones. 

Yeah this is very true. 

11 minutes ago, Celloguy said:

It's not as good as Flickr though because the image quality is so low.

They also don't allow you to download photos (even though there's a thousand different ways to do it), and embedding shows everything instead of just the photo which can end up looking tacky for some. However you can post multiple photos in one post which you can scroll thru so that can be nice if you'll be embedding, but people might not notice the other photos are there so they'll miss them.

You also can only upload from the app meaning you'll have to transfer your photos from your camera to your computer to your device that has the app. It seems Instagram trys to stay as a thing for people who are gonna take a photo with their phone and upload it straight to Instagram.

 

[Sajuuk]

New member here, who came out of a decade plus dark age and only got up the courage to start venturing back onto social LEGO sites (IE forums, image hosting with comments, etc.): I know I'm not very active here, even for a newbie; however, I have run into an "interesting" predicament, and this topic seems the best place to address it without starting a new thread.  Whilst I am not an incredibly stellar advanced builder, I would like to think of myself as a solid intermediate builder; unfortunately, it seems like my MOCs just aren't worthy of anyone's attention.  The last comments or feedback I received were on my first MOC post, and probably only because it won an award at a LEGO expo.  Since then, I've shared four other MOCs (two recently, two a few months back) and not one person has anything at all to say about them.  This is frustrating as I came here because my old haunt, the Classic Space forums, have since moved into the dustbin of history (alongside MOCPages now, sadly...) and I needed a forum on which I could post space MOCs and receive constructive feedback so as to become a better builder.  On a related tangent, I have also noticed, at least on the Sci-Fi forums, that only advanced original MOCs, MOCs referencing various intellectual properties, and builds that are just recolours of other sets are the only topics that receive any feedback.  Whilst I have not seen any "beginner" builds on the forum, I have noticed a disturbing trend of solid intermediate builds being completely ignored by the community, especially if they are an original, built-from-imagination MOC.  This is incredibly disheartening, to say the least.

I don't know if these problems are recent, or something lingering from long before I joined; however, it's difficult to want to continue to engage with the community as an intermediate builder with a small brick collection and limited budget, especially when all I want to do is learn how to improve my builds whilst retaining my own unique building style.  I would love to see a more engaging Eurobricks forum community, especially with regards to MOCs, and be a bit more welcoming towards less skilled individuals.  I would like to clarify that I'm not expecting any amount of undue praise or sugar coating: if my build is sub-par, I would much rather someone tell me that and add suggestions on where I can improve (building technique, different bricks, etc.) than leave no feedback at all.  Or, alternative suggestion: have a sticky on the various theme forums that says "experienced MOC builds by AFOLs proficient in Photoshop only".  Whilst the latter suggestion is mostly levity, this feels like the sort of unspoken rule that seems to permeate the forums, at least on the Sci-Fi sub-forum.  On a positive note, I did use the feedback that a few individuals provided on my first MOC post and used it to improve that build.

I apologise if this seemed "ranty", but this frustration has been building for some time.  I hope this at least brings to light one possible issue with Eurobricks that might one day be resolved.  Perhaps it is just the symptom of exiting a decade long dark age, and where once there was a thriving and vibrant online community full of LEGO enthusiasts and various niche sites, now there is but a paltry shadow of what once was; an empty wasteland populated by small, insular, and isolated communities that continue to dwindle as time inevitably marches on. 

[Peppermint_M]

It has been a very long term trend that started at least five years ago. 

Themes that are current (aka, products are available) are more active. The activity is predominantly discussion of new and upcoming products and related leaks. 

Absolutely high class MOCs or MOCs with extra recognition (like those related to known properties, contest winners etc).

Also, currently in society and online there is an attitude that any sort of criticism/disagreement, even some comment that is not 100% "right on!" positive is an attack. So people are reluctant to say anything. 

All I can suggest is maybe asking for specific advice on areas or techniques used in a MOC. Maybe bring up a part of the design you struggled with or are unsure of. I know from personal experience; every time I tried to share advice on improving a MOC I simply was told in return "it is my style"/"that is not my style". So I gave up  on that. 

[Sajuuk]

Thank you for the advice, Peppermint_M!  Yeah, I get that social media culture has limited people's ability for constructive criticism or intellectual debate; however, I did not realize it had spread to the online LEGO scene.  This is unfortunate as it essentially robs aspiring builders of peer-reviewed feedback.  I also know that there is a ton of knowledge (that didn't exist a decade ago!) online which individuals like myself can access and consume (such as the Galactic Plastics Youtube channel, for example); however, a lot of it requires having a massive collection of bricks, or a sizable disposable income for Bricklink orders to acquire enough bricks to build along with any instructional material.   

It's really a shame that one has to be at the cutting edge of MOC building to even be recognized on this site, much less receive any sort of feedback on a build.  For an intermediate builder like myself, that is incredibly disheartening, so I can imagine any beginner builders of people making new forays into other LEGO genres might feel.  Honestly, this mentality of acknowledging only top-notch MOCs or those that have received some sort of accolade is incredibly elitist and very much a gatekeeper mindset that will work against growing the community.  It limits diversity and inclusion, and will only serve to alienate anyone but a curated select crop of extremely skilled builders.  This is totally anathema to the core idea that is LEGO.  Changing this borderline toxic mentality that seems to have permeated the forums would probably go along way to making Eurobricks more active.  Whether or not the impetus and energy is there to do so is another matter entirely, and one that I am not qualified to answer.

Anyway, I'll try being more direct in asking for building advice, but I'm not entirely hopeful about the outcome.  I totally get the whole "my style/not my style" argument, which I hate to say I used sometimes when I was a lot younger on the Classic Space forums.  Perhaps all that growing as a person I did in my decade plus dark age has changed my entire mindset as a builder: where once I was a hot-headed, barely out of high-school kid who thought they knew everything; now I am a relatively level-headed adult who can be confident in their skills yet still comprehend that I do not know everything (far from it in fact!), and that I have so much to learn in terms of building technique and creativity.  Perhaps that is the crux of the problem with the "style" response to criticism: that one's maturity and mindset have a lot to do with how one responds.  Perhaps it was all the arrogant whipper-snappers like I used to be who ruined the LEGO internet for all of us, in which case, I am even more ashamed of my younger self than I am now, and I am deeply sorry.  None-the-less, it is still sad to see that now everyone automatically assumes a general lack of maturity; thus, will only leave praise for MOCs that meet the "top-notch" and "award-winning" categories.  This is a great disservice, as even the most ardent defender of their build will eventually incorporate feedback into their technique, or at least I hope they would!  It's exactly what I did back on the Classic Space forums.  Even though I sometimes railed against the advice I was given, I eventually came to do everything that was recommended: I used more SNOT, I tried to make everything studless, I used glowy bits for engines, I've tried to add more "features" like missile bays, interesting landing gear, et cetera, and I'm now trying to experiment with greebles, even though I am absolutely dreadful at greebling.  All of my current MOCs now are the legacy of the feedback and advice I received from those really awesome and even more patient individuals on the Classic Space forums.  Oh how I wish I could thank them and apologize for how insufferable I was!  Perhaps a lot of advice to people who push back against it is just "investment" feedback?  I don't know, just a thought.  That being said, I also understand the desire to no longer leave criticism when one constantly encounters resistance to said feedback, and I am imparting no judgement to said action.  Ones emotional time and energy is often better spent doing other things.  I was just trying to provide a sort of counterpoint, and some evidence, although incredibly anecdotal and most likely not representative, that constructive criticism isn't always ignored, even when one encounters push-back.

Again, sorry if this came across as a rant.  I'm going to keep posting my builds, even though I am not hopeful for any comments or criticism.  Classic Space is but a memory, MOCPages is dead, and "faves" on Flickr do me no good as it doesn't so much matter that someone likes a build, but rather what elements did said individual like so that I may continue to refine those ideas in new MOCs, so Eurobricks is probably my best chance to refine my technique.  I'm also going to try to comment on those builds that people post which receive little to no feedback, and in general, try to be more active in the EB Sci-Fi community.  I should also disclaim that I do not intend to be confrontational with this post.  I am just venting some frustration, which may or may not be valid.  Perhaps my position as a newbie to the EB forums is incorporating some bias into my observations, I don't know. 

Thank you for taking the time to respond, Peppermint_M, and I very much appreciate your advice and insight!

[Peppermint_M]

Sure, as a moderator who loves the MOC side of things, it gets frustrating how little Creating is going on and how even less commenting and feedback is garnered on those MOCs that get posted. I do not see it is as ranty how you have posted. In fact your points are well put and thought out.

I apologise that my post was a little shorter, I was on my phone at the time 

I personally found commenting dropped off and pushed some builders to other platforms, but they are pretty quiet now too. Discord has pulled in a lot of discussion now (from what I hear). "Like" and "Heart" has  taken the place of commenting and we didn't want to institute it here on EB in the hopes that people would post comments. Instragram is a great platform to share, but not to learn.

 

 

 

[MAB]

On 8/20/2020 at 10:22 PM, Sajuuk said:

... unfortunately, it seems like my MOCs just aren't worthy of anyone's attention.

I needed a forum on which I could post space MOCs and receive constructive feedback so as to become a better builder.

I have noticed a disturbing trend of solid intermediate builds being completely ignored by the community, especially if they are an original, built-from-imagination MOC

especially when all I want to do is learn how to improve my builds whilst retaining my own unique building style.  I would love to see a more engaging Eurobricks forum community, especially with regards to MOCs, and be a bit more welcoming towards less skilled individuals.  I would like to clarify that I'm not expecting any amount of undue praise or sugar coating: if my build is sub-par, I would much rather someone tell me that and add suggestions on where I can improve (building technique, different bricks, etc.) than leave no feedback at all. 

I don't think they are necessarily being ignored, just not commented on.

You mention wanting feedback but also being welcoming. Welcoming can mean two different things - actually commenting, and commenting only positively. Some people ask for comments but then get angry if you suggest any improvements or alternatives. I think if you really want feedback, you should ask. Better still if there are specific parts of the build you want improved then specifically ask about those.

It is also somewhat circular. I used to comment in what I hope was a productive way, but very rarely did I see the MOC improved and reposted. And if feedback is not acted on by the builder, then there is little point in giving feedback. I think that is partly why feedback tends to be minimal.

I also find a lot of posts are now adverts for Ideas projects. I tend to stop reading / looking at the MOC at the first mention of Ideas. Sometimes I don't get past the first line.

Edited September 7, 2020 by MAB

[Kai NRG]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

It is also somewhat circular. I used to comment in what I hope was a productive way, but very rarely did I see the MOC improved and reposted. And if feedback is not acted on by the builder, then there is little point in giving feedback. I think that is partly why feedback tends to be minimal.

I think this is one reason why feedback is stronger in the RPG forums than anywhere else.  You can see a builder improve their MOCs over time, so there's some encouragement to continue commenting.  Depending on building style, it's a little much for someone to update each build with suggested improvements.  Sometimes my MOCs have been deconstructed before I even post pictures.  Of course, if you're building for a convention or in order to keep it built for a while, you can make adjustments based on feedback.

In general, I think it helps to comment on other people's builds.  When people recognize you they'll have something to say about your work.  This works better in a RPG than elsewhere I think, because in a RPG, the people building are the people providing feedback and vice versa (for the most part).  So RPGs build a semi-permanent community that recognizes each other.  In other forums, it seems to me like it's often not builders who do the commenting; builders sometimes just drop their MOCs and see what kind of reaction they get (no wonder there aren't many comments!).  If a community could be built in each forum - builders going the extra mile to comment on each other's builds - that could help a lot, but it has to come from ground up.

Individually you can also build up something of a commenter base, by building recognition.  RPG forums are my main experience here and you have more commenters there to try to attract, and a higher level of permanency, but anyway, as you continue posting MOCs people start to recognize you and to become more comfortable especially with voicing criticism (as opposed to just quick praise) as they see how you respond to it.  In a RPG generally your first build will get quite a few comments - several of them probably expressing criticism, how you react to those may be critical - then it'll drop off a little (depending on how good your building style is/how involved you are in contributing with comments for others), then if you continue to contribute (especially commenting on other builder's posts) it'll build back up in proportion as your MOCs improve.

In the long run, we can complain about how other people are not commenting, but it doesn't make them comment.  What we need to do is go comment ourselves.   And comments do attract comments, so every little bit helps!

[pombe]

On 9/7/2020 at 6:59 AM, Kai NRG said:

Words worth reading.

Yep.  If you want to join a community that offers a ton of engagement and feedback (and trashtalk...good natured, of course ):

Play a game!

1) Brethren of the Brick Seas
2) Guilds of Historica
3) Factions
4) The Great Brick War
(did I miss any that are currently running?)

As for improving MOCs, you will see a lot of WIPs in the private Eurobricks/discord channels for these games from all the players so there is a lot of suggestion/criticism/improvement going on, but it's all hidden behind the scenes of these games (because all these WIPs would just clutter the forums...like really...).

Not happy with the choice of games available?  Talk to the regulators and mods about running a new one!

Edited September 8, 2020 by pombe

[jimmynick]

On 9/7/2020 at 12:10 PM, MAB said:

I used to comment in what I hope was a productive way, but very rarely did I see the MOC improved and reposted. And if feedback is not acted on by the builder, then there is little point in giving feedback.

I find this comment interesting because it's not how I think of giving feedback at all, and I appreciate your different perspective! Unless a build is explicitly marked as a WIP I don't think that my response will have any effect at all on the MOC at hand. I hope that my compliments & criticisms are taken into consideration for the next build, but not the current one. I guess it's a bit different in places like the trains community, where builders will endlessly build and rebuild.

On 9/7/2020 at 12:10 PM, MAB said:

I also find a lot of posts are now adverts for Ideas projects.

I do too, and I find it a bit tedious. For me the draw of building is the geometric puzzle and not the hope one day of Making It as a set's fan creator...

On 9/7/2020 at 2:59 PM, Kai NRG said:

You can see a builder improve their MOCs over time, so there's some encouragement to continue commenting.

Yup, this is my motivation for commenting.

[MAB]

I haven't seen anything about a Christmas raffle, so presumably it won't be happening again this year (lack of prizes from LEGO?). I got the impression that each year this created quite a buzz and helped make EB busier during November and December.

 

[Jim]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

I haven't seen anything about a Christmas raffle, so presumably it won't be happening again this year (lack of prizes from LEGO?). I got the impression that each year this created quite a buzz and helped make EB busier during November and December.

Yeah, we really want to get the Christmas contest back on the calendar. Since we need to ship the prizes ourselves, we are very limited. But that doesn't mean we can't have the contest.

[MAB]

5 hours ago, Jim said:

Yeah, we really want to get the Christmas contest back on the calendar. Since we need to ship the prizes ourselves, we are very limited. But that doesn't mean we can't have the contest.

It was fun checking in every day to see who had won, and who had been given the advent window for the day. Plus it got everyone from different sub-forums building on the same theme.

[Peppermint_M]

I have no idea how it worked, but I could chuck something together just to see what happens?