[WIP] MAN TGS 10x8 Effer 2655

[Beck]

 

Hello everyone!

After completing my TGS 18.400, I’ve decided to dedicate my time towards one sole project instead of trying to work on five separate projects that never get completed. My primary goal in this project is to motorize and remotely control all* major functions. 

*excluding doors, and possible fly jib

 

List of Powered Functions (via BuWizz and SBricks)

1. Drive

2. Steer

3. Slewing

4. Outrigger extend

5. Pneumatic Pump + Airtank?

6. Servo Valve - Outrigger Down

7. Servo Valve - Crane 1st stage

8. Servo Valve - Crane 2nd stage

9. Servo Valve - Crane 2nd Stage extend

10. Outrigger rotate?

 

This may sound ambitious; however, I do not care about interiors whatsoever, so I will make effective use of the cab-space and oil tank behind the cab. Another goal of this project is to implement full suspension. Axles 1 and 2 will be springless pendular, given the weight of the cab and crane. Axles 3 and 4 may be sprung, although I am undecided on this matter. The fifth and rearmost axle will be sprung with the soft springs. Thus far the most challenging aspect of the build has been to figure out a way to rotate the front set of outriggers (above axle 2) 180 degrees while allowing for extension. I’m not sure if I can do this. (I have an idea for a mechanism, but need to try it out in IRL.

 

 

 

Any ideas or advice is greatly appreciated in regard to any aspect of the build.

References:

http://www.ditzj.de/html/en/trucks/man/41480maurach1.html

http://www.effer.com/en/products/2655/

 

Thank you for reading

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Beck

[1gor]

On this project i really like how cab looks like  but I'm nit such fan of stud-full build, perhaps you can use stud-less beams instead for chassis. suspension could be similar to Arocs front axles, and you can use this panels https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=18945&colorID=3&in=A on crane.

This M.A.N. will be massive - just like LEGO Arocs

The best thing is to concentrate on just one project.

[Saberwing40k]

Funnily enough, I knew from just your title what you were trying to build. This is a massive challenge, and I wish you luck. However, I have one suggestion. I'm sure it's a controversial opinion, but I think you should use the old 24x43 wheels instead of these smaller ones. I too have been building a knuckle boom crane truck with 3 stage outriggers, but I did a modeling cheat, because making 3 stage outriggers that look good and are strong would be absurdly difficult, if not impossible. I'm also building  at this scale, and it is quite difficult. I also did something completely different, having most of the motors in the crane itself, and having the model be run by gears an linear actuators. You may have to do this, having the servos that control the crane in the crane itself, as you might run out of room quickly. I know I did, and the truck I based my model off of is a long nosed truck with a sleeper cab, which would have a lot more room than a single cab truck like yours.

Here's the topic for my project, you may find some useful inspiration:

Best of luck, this forum needs more cranes.

[KikoTube]

Clean cab 

[Beck]

On 4/23/2018 at 2:57 AM, I_Igor said:

On this project i really like how cab looks like  but I'm nit such fan of stud-full build, perhaps you can use stud-less beams instead for chassis. suspension could be similar to Arocs front axles, and you can use this panels https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=18945&colorID=3&in=A on crane.

This M.A.N. will be massive - just like LEGO Arocs

The best thing is to concentrate on just one project.

Thank you! I'm going to stick to a studful chassis, since it is easier to build a studful bi-layer that resists bending stress much better than a comparable chassis utilizing technic beams. Although it is possible to create a chassis that is equally as strong using technic beams, it would require more vertical bracing, which would take up quite a bit more space. The suspension for axles 1 and 2 is nothing like the arocs'. 

On 4/23/2018 at 4:55 PM, Saberwing40k said:

Funnily enough, I knew from just your title what you were trying to build. This is a massive challenge, and I wish you luck. However, I have one suggestion. I'm sure it's a controversial opinion, but I think you should use the old 24x43 wheels instead of these smaller ones. I too have been building a knuckle boom crane truck with 3 stage outriggers, but I did a modeling cheat, because making 3 stage outriggers that look good and are strong would be absurdly difficult, if not impossible. I'm also building  at this scale, and it is quite difficult. I also did something completely different, having most of the motors in the crane itself, and having the model be run by gears an linear actuators. You may have to do this, having the servos that control the crane in the crane itself, as you might run out of room quickly. I know I did, and the truck I based my model off of is a long nosed truck with a sleeper cab, which would have a lot more room than a single cab truck like yours.

Here's the topic for my project, you may find some useful inspiration:

Best of luck, this forum needs more cranes.

Thanks! I don't entirely understand what you are implying by suggesting to switch wheels. Do you mean that the truck should be scaled up to allow for more room or do you mean that the current wheels are simply too small? To address the first possible meaning; I am not going to use the 24x43 wheels because I really like this scale, and already have two trucks built at this scale. Besides, I have put waaay too much time into making axles at this scale. Regarding the outriggers, there's no way I'm going to make three stage outriggers, let alone two. Placing the motors inside of the crane may work for your model, but the frame of the effer 2655 is way to skinny to fit any type of motor inside; although, I may be able to fit a motor inside of the asymmetrical portion of the second stage that connects to the first stage to control the 2nd stage extension. (hopefully that made sense )

On 4/23/2018 at 10:45 PM, KikoTube said:

Clean cab 

Thanks!

Update 1:

The wheel arches for axles 3 and 4 are complete, but need more support from the bottom. I will need to create lengthened wheel arches for axles 2 and 5 as to accommodate for the steering angle. Using sariel's scaler, I created an outline for the crane base. I estimate that the truck will end up being ~85 studs long.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Beck

[1gor]

@Beck thanks for clearing axle issue; btw do you have images of real M.A.N. axles?

I like rear wheel arches on your M.A.N. 

[Beck]

On 4/26/2018 at 10:51 AM, I_Igor said:

@Beck thanks for clearing axle issue; btw do you have images of real M.A.N. axles?

I like rear wheel arches on your M.A.N. 

Like almost all other trucks, they're solid axles. I was referring to TLG's Arocs in my previous response.

 

 

Update 3:

 

I have completed a sketch of the loading box to get an idea of the overall length and to aid in scaling the length of the 1st stage. I also covered the drive motor with the fuel tank and what appears to be the exhaust filter. Shown in the last photo is my idea for the rotating outrigger. The axle on the top will stay fixed relative to the outrigger, but the lower axle will slide in through the red gear as the outrigger extends. The problem is the range of movement. TLG's longest axle is 32l and the second longest is 12l. I would need an axle with a length of about 16l for the outrigger to be anywhere near effective. A possible solution would be to add a 2nd axle stage, but this increased height would not fit in the outrigger part. Any ideas? I'm considering cutting a 32l axle to length if need be, but I'm a bit hesitant to say the least.

Thanks,

Beck

 

 

[redoak]

50451 is tecnic axle 16 white

[lcvisser]

The 16L axle came only in Technic set 42009 Mobile Crane MkII (5 of them), and in a few Star Wars sets: https://brickset.com/sets/containing-part-6043747 But they're readily available on Bricklink it seems: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/search.page?q=6043747&ss=NL#T=A

[1gor]

I would like to see it build in bricks, but take your time, I have feeling that it would be better than M.A.N. fire truck of yours

[Beck]

Well this is embarrassing; especially because I own a 42009. Time to pillage! 

@I_Igor The problem with building IRL is that the process requires an extremely large collection of system bricks that I simply don't have. Building technic IRL is more practical because there are fewer types of parts and colors than those in system. For me, the easiest method of designing a model team creation is to use LDD and order the necessary parts off of bricklink. That being said, I will begin to order the parts required for my week off between terms.

[1gor]

@Beck I'm always building in traditional way, and if I do not have enough parts then I use in different color or I make a list to see what is necessary and look on bl. stores near me...Despite the fact that I'm (educated) IT systems developer I work as professor for IT and use every possible time to be as far away from computer as possible 

[M_longer]

On 9.06.2018 at 10:36 AM, Beck said:

Update 3:

Uhm, how are you going to support those brick based crane parts?

[Beck]

7 hours ago, I_Igor said:

use every possible time to be as far away from computer as possible 

I would like to live like this; however, as a student it's basically impossible. 

 

3 hours ago, M_longer said:

Uhm, how are you going to support those brick based crane parts?

I think I know what you're getting at here. The fulcrum for the first stage is weak and far away from the center of the turnable. To mitigate this factor, I will use technic beams to connect the fulcrum to the technic holes on the turntable. It's a digital WIP so I'm jumping all around to different parts of the model and sometimes forget to finish the section I am working on.

[1gor]

3 hours ago, Beck said:

I would like to live like this; however, as a student it's basically impossible. 

 

 

20-25 years ago I was student and have lived like you and result was 5 eye operations and have serius problems with left eye for the rest of my life...that's my point eye is not a hair which will grow and regenerate sooner or later; take care of them

[Beck]

Update 4:

I completed the axles and part of the chassis IRL about a month and a half ago. In the mean time I bricklinked the various types of specialty parts required for the cab, outriggers, and crane. I'm especially pleased with the mudguards. 

 

You may see that I used the 20 tooth bevel gear on the front axle, but this is because the front steering rack's range movement would be hindered by the regular 20 tooth gear. I will probably add a metal washer on the back of the 20 tooth bevel gear to reduce the likelihood that the gear will bend under high load. Here's a closeup:

 

In LDD, I have reinforced the front outriggers and attached the front cover plate and incorporated the pneumatic pumps.

 

 

Finally, I have begun work on an outrigger design. It's significantly bulkier than the real crane, but this is lego and I want the model to be 100% remote controlled.

 

 

Any comments, questions, or concerns are much appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Beck

[1gor]

Yes mudguards look very nice (and familiar) 

Just one small suggestion - use double bevel gear 20 tooth with differential because bevel gear likes to slip...

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by I_Igor

[Ivan_M]

Very nice progress, I will watch this closely. It is not very clear how the outridges are build, is it like in Dirk Klijns crane?

Liebherr LTM 1090 4.1 - Sarens by Dirk Klijn, on Flickr

[Jurss]

3 hours ago, I_Igor said:

use double bevel gear 20 tooth with differential because bevel gear likes to slip...

If he run out of those gears, then he should get one, if it is because to escape interaction with steering mechanism, then put at least there 3L halfbeam. It seems to me, that it could be possible to fix it there with some 2L axles.

[1gor]

14 minutes ago, Jurss said:

If he run out of those gears, then he should get one, if it is because to escape interaction with steering mechanism, then put at least there 3L halfbeam. It seems to me, that it could be possible to fix it there with some 2L axles.

You are right about that. ?

[Corrado]

2 hours ago, Jurss said:

If he run out of those gears, then he should get one, if it is because to escape interaction with steering mechanism, then put at least there 3L halfbeam. It seems to me, that it could be possible to fix it there with some 2L axles.

Necessarily!

[1gor]

Just one small thing - perhaps this black axle would be better someday...

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=24316#T=S&C=11&O={"color":11,"rpp":"100","iconly":0}

[Jurss]

13 hours ago, Beck said:

You may see that I used the 20 tooth bevel gear on the front axle, but this is because the front steering rack's range movement would be hindered by the regular 20 tooth gear. I

I missed this. It is clear now.

2 hours ago, I_Igor said:

perhaps this black axle would be better someday..

3L axle would be too short, it seems so. Some 4L is needed.

6 hours ago, Jurss said:

It seems to me, that it could be possible to fix it there with some 2L axles

Those holes are taken ...

Does really that downgear mechanism is fixed to 5x7 frame with two 1.5 bushes and axle between gears?

It seems, that there is another support, but it prevents more from bending, not from possibility to slip away.

[1gor]

I was thinking on black axle 3 with stop together with round tiles with hole at the end of wheel 

[Beck]

13 hours ago, I_Igor said:

Yes mudguards look very nice (and familiar) 

Just one SSD suggestion - use double bevel gear 20 tooth with differential because bevel gear likes to slip...

 

Thanks! I'm not quite sure what you mean by SSD or double bevel gear. I am very well aware that the bevel gear is not ideal, but it's pretty much the only option in this setup.

 

10 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

Very nice progress, I will watch this closely. It is not very clear how the outridges are build, is it like in Dirk Klijns crane?

Liebherr LTM 1090 4.1 - Sarens by Dirk Klijn, on Flickr

Thank you very much! In a way they are similar to Dirk's crane, in that they are mechanically extended and pneumatically raised. The key difference being that my outriggers are mounted on a non-specialized carrier, an 10x8 truck, so the outriggers rotate along the axis parallel to the length of the outrigger. You can see the mechanism and explanation on the last photo of Update #3.

 

10 hours ago, Jurss said:

 then put at least there 3L halfbeam. It seems to me, that it could be possible to fix it there with some 2L axles.

Already thought of that, only I forgot to include that in the model IRL. Since the halfbeams in front of the 5x7 frame are attached by 1(1/2) pins I was going to cut 3mm tubing to connect the 3L halfbeam to the 1(1/2)pins.

 

 

I would still need the metal washer for this gap:

 

 

6 hours ago, I_Igor said:

Just one small thing - perhaps this black axle would be better someday...

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=24316#T=S&C=11&O={"color":11,"rpp":"100","iconly":0}

 

2 hours ago, I_Igor said:

I was thinking on black axle 3 with stop together with round tiles with hole at the end of wheel 

Yep, I understand. I even considered painting the cap black.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Beck