What would you want from a new Lego monorail system?

[Trekkie99]

If Lego were to bring back the monorail as a new system, what would like to see from it? What features should it have? Also, what would it take to make a successful Lego monorail Ideas project?

Two features I'd like to see which would work hand in hand, would be that the monorail could actually grab onto the track, that way allowing the system to work as a suspended monorail, all while using the same system.

I forget who said it, but I remember hearing somewhere that Lego designers tested a monorail system idea with kids, but their reaction wasn't the highest on the "this is awesome!" scale. Whether or not the designers had a physical concept system or just drawings and concept art, it would be interesting to know what they may have had in mind for a new monorail system.

 

Edited April 22, 2018 by LegoMonorailFan

[Digger of Bricks]

7 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Two features I'd like to see which would work hand in hand, would be that the monorail could actually grab onto the track, that way allowing the system to work as a suspended monorail, all while using the same system.

That's pretty much what I would want from a new system, track that would more resemble a beam, allowing for either configuration. Honestly, it's hard to think of the old system as a monorail really. 

[ElectroDiva]

I don’t think there was too much wrong with the original system - i’d be happy just with a reissue of that.

 

The only additions I’d like to see is some of the stuff 4DBrix are doing - a cross switch, diagonal track segment and ideally automation (although I really couldn’t see TLG stretching that far)

 

Now for a completely new version- your suggestion of something that “grabs on” to allow a suspended monorail would be a significant improvement. I can’t see how that would work whilst still allowing a conventional monorail though. Did you have a MOC example in mind?

 

As for a Lego ideas project - I’d love to see a new classic space inspired monorail - that would appeal to two audiences in one - anyone interested in monorails and anyone looking for a revival of the space theme. 

[Digger of Bricks]

15 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

As for a Lego ideas project - I’d love to see a new classic space inspired monorail - that would appeal to two audiences in one - anyone interested in monorails and anyone looking for a revival of the space theme. 

Have you seen @Exetrius's and @Mark Bellis's projects before? 

Classic Space Monorail and Space Monorail 

[fred67]

They won't reissue the old system because of the cost of the track... they'd also have to figure a way to make it work with PF, as they wouldn't create a new motor that wasn't compatible.  I know this is a "what would you want," and not "what could conceivably make TLG release a monorail" (although LegoMonorailFan asked about making a successful ideas project), but there has to be a compromise between new parts, cost, and demand.  Low demand means new parts need to be low cost.

So, then, keeping in mind people have already built some nice sets using PF, an efficacious solution that wouldn't "violate" what TLG considers "legal" builds would require decent, but inexpensive track (that wouldn't be under stress) as a starting point.

I've suggested elsewhere that 2x (8+ length) curved tiles (let's say 2 together would equal a train track curve, so 2x8, which is certainly not unreasonable, IMO) would make the current efforts "legal," would look great, and I don't think it'd cost a lot (in comparison to existing parts) to make.   I can also think of a number of useful things that it could be used for besides monorail.   After that, my request would be something to make it easier to have guide wheels (we can do that now, but they generally are too large to look nice).

As far as what would be a decent monorail Ideas project that stood a chance of getting 10k votes?  It has to have a theme that people can get behind, and the only one I can think o f is Disney.  So a MOC that looked like the Disney monorail, with some Disney elements thrown in, would get a lot more votes than a "plain" monorail submission.  Yes, people love classic space monorail, but that won't get the Disney fan vote.

 

[ElectroDiva]

On 23/04/2018 at 1:55 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Have you seen @Exetrius's and @Mark Bellis's projects before? 

Classic Space Monorail and Space Monorail 

I hadn’t seen those - thanks for pointing them out. They look great

[Brickthus]

2 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

I hadn’t seen those - thanks for pointing them out. They look great

Thanks

 

On 4/23/2018 at 4:59 PM, fred67 said:

They won't reissue the old system because of the cost of the track... they'd also have to figure a way to make it work with PF, as they wouldn't create a new motor that wasn't compatible.  I know this is a "what would you want," and not "what could conceivably make TLG release a monorail" (although LegoMonorailFan asked about making a successful ideas project), but there has to be a compromise between new parts, cost, and demand.  Low demand means new parts need to be low cost.

So, then, keeping in mind people have already built some nice sets using PF, an efficacious solution that wouldn't "violate" what TLG considers "legal" builds would require decent, but inexpensive track (that wouldn't be under stress) as a starting point.

I've suggested elsewhere that 2x (8+ length) curved tiles (let's say 2 together would equal a train track curve, so 2x8, which is certainly not unreasonable, IMO) would make the current efforts "legal," would look great, and I don't think it'd cost a lot (in comparison to existing parts) to make.   I can also think of a number of useful things that it could be used for besides monorail.   After that, my request would be something to make it easier to have guide wheels (we can do that now, but they generally are too large to look nice).

As far as what would be a decent monorail Ideas project that stood a chance of getting 10k votes?  It has to have a theme that people can get behind, and the only one I can think o f is Disney.  So a MOC that looked like the Disney monorail, with some Disney elements thrown in, would get a lot more votes than a "plain" monorail submission.  Yes, people love classic space monorail, but that won't get the Disney fan vote.

 

Some people stick with 3rd-party support for the old system, with 3D-printed tracks and other motors.  It's a shame that the alternative route effectively divides the fan base and reduces the drive for TLG to produce a monorail set.  In a sense I have nothing to lose by submitting a LEGO Ideas project; I would like to get more than 1000 votes but I don't necessarily expect to do any better than Masao Hidaka did with his earlier project at 1707.  Even 1000 is looking like a big challenge at the moment - the support rate is not what it needs to be so early in the project.  I'm at about 1/3 of the level of support that I had for my working BB-8 droid, which reached 1327.  I might have the engineering more mature than I did with BB-8 but Classic Space is just not as popular as Star Wars.

The main thing for a LEGO Ideas set is to be a complete set with play value.  I added that with the removable modules, each of which fits on the train or buggy in turn and each of which has further features.  I was inspired by train set 4559 for the module system.

I have a plan for stress-free track, which is the only outstanding issue on pure build-legality for a set.  I added an update with the plan.  I take encouragement from my latest test piece while I wait for more parts to arrive.
The updates page of my project is a space to watch.

I have even recreated a brick-built crater plate because the old one is no longer available.  I use exactly the same PF parts as a train set (which IMO is the most a project could get away with including), so this would adapt to the PF2 train set parts just as well.  I expect the motor would be unlikely to change except in its plug.  Same for the other parts - mostly connector changes - apart from a new Bluetooth receiver in a package with some studs, which would not be too different from the IR Receiver.  TLG should be aware that small means versatile, so I hope it's no bigger!  Hence all building legalities should be met with my LEGO Ideas set.

To do Disney would require more precision in the field of the characters.  Disney already has a franchise, making it ineligible for a LEGO Ideas project.  I chose the Classic Space theme for my monorail set proposal because it is still the most popular Space theme and has 2 recent kits in Benny's Spaceship and the Exo-Suit.  Two of the three original monorail sets were Space-themed.  Classic Space also adapts more easily than a City theme to the needs of the monorail train configuration.  Classic Space has dedicated LEGO fans, just as monorail does.  I want my set to be part of the Classic Space revival, so I included the crater plate and a brick-built canopy in the right colour scheme.  The platform plates deliberately include pairs of wedge shapes to rebuild easily into a spaceship.

I have also tested prototypes for Futuron, Blacktron and M-Tron so later-theme fans are not left out.  I would have an exhibition layout with all 4 themes having their own stations and trains.  I might investigate Unitron as I have a 6991 set in the theme.

As we who have tested these monorail systems know, there is a width tolerance for the guide rollers to avoid binding on the track, especially in the curves.  I have produced a jig piece from the same pieces used in my LEGO Ideas set, which would be made and then dismantled in the instructions, as happens in some other sets.  The train bogies would be built on this jig and it would calibrate the roller gap to ensure good running.  This helps to answer the inevitable question for a proposed set: "Can it be built by an 8-year old?".

Having posted to facebook (several groups), twitter, Reddit, YouTube, EB and local LEGO forums, are there any other places I should post to attract more support for a Space Monorail?

In a sense my LEGO Ideas set proposal is everything I would want from a LEGO Monorail system, which is a reliable, fast and versatile monorail in the proper context of a Space theme, accepting that the limits of a set mean that the more ambitious track pieces are an extension for some idea pages in the instructions, rather than being included.  Pictures of those on my Brickshelf.

Mark

[fred67]

Well, LegoMonorailFan asked what it would take to make a successful monorail ideas project.  That's 10k.  If your target is 1k for you to consider it successful, that's fine, but a successful ideas project needs to reach 10k, and a monorail is not going to do it without stepping outside the world of LEGO to get there.

It doesn't have to be Disney; I doubt they'd consider the Simpsons verboten at this point.  Perhaps there is some popular working monorail system that can be mimicked.  Whatever the hook is, the point is that a monorail project is going to need one in order to "succeed."

Most of the non-licensed projects have some kind of hook - either science related, a socio-political agenda (not that I'm complaining, I'm absolutely not), or some some other appeal to classic items (the maze, ship in a bottle) that people think fondly of.  About the only one I can't explain is the old fishing store, and I suppose it's just an awesome build.  In any event, those projects got a lot of support from people who wouldn't normally be participating in the LEGO community.

[MAB]

19 hours ago, fred67 said:

It doesn't have to be Disney; I doubt they'd consider the Simpsons verboten at this point.  Perhaps there is some popular working monorail system that can be mimicked.  Whatever the hook is, the point is that a monorail project is going to need one in order to "succeed."

 

 

I think that is the problem with monorail in general. Outside of Asia, they aren't really in widespread use and when they are it is often as a relatively slow tourist attraction. It is not the monorail as such that is of interest than the attraction itself. For example, would a LEGO Disney monorail set sell any better than a LEGO Disney train set? Probably not. And while Classic Space monorails may be of interest to men of a certain age, they are essentially a vision of the future from 40 years ago that hasn't happened. Kids these days don't see them as futuristic. Maybe if LEGO becomes much more popular in China, there will be demand for realistic monorail sets comparable to current trains sets.

[Brickthus]

I'd love to get to 10k but I'm being realistic.  If the Hidaka Monorail made 1707 and I have 1/3 the support rate of BB-8 that made 1327 then I might not expect to make 10k.  I'm an "experienced optimist", and also a safety engineer (which means I stare into the abyss to conceive what can go wrong and how to fix it before it does).  It means I still consider how to get as much support as possible but I don't set my hopes too high.

You guys are right in the need to appeal beyond LEGO itself, but this is also a problem about LEGO.  It used to stand on its own as a toy.  If it is no longer popular enough without a famous brand attached then it is failing as a concept in this age of celebrity, short attention spans and "video or it didn't happen".  My aim is to make the best possible monorail set with a compatible theme (Space was 2oo3 of the original monorail sets), great engineering (faster, fewer limits, reliable) and minimal obsolescence (so it lasts for ever as a concept rather than having ridiculous prices that make it inaccessible to further generations).  Those are my skills, to varying extents.  To be honest I would be disgusted to plaster good engineering with the need to accommodate Mickey's ears, Donald's bill or Pluto's nose or a silly colour scheme that would detract from the universal compatibility with the Space and City themes.  This is why the Joker Mansion has purple roller coaster track where other sets have grey track; purple track belongs to imagination, theme parks and film franchises, where real tracks are grey.  Kids need to have fun in reality as well as in fantasy, and learn to tell the difference.  Otherwise if all their reality is tough then they will try to escape by spending too much time in fantasy lands, where it would be better to equip them to improve their reality and help others to do the same.

In publicity I have only basic skills but at least I will exhibit this a few times.  I have already resorted to using some outrageous hashtags on Twitter!  In various forums one can only post "support my project" so many times before people get fed up with it.  This forum is no exception.  BB-8 had the advantage that a few Star Wars groups were legitimate places to post, but even a facebook group where people make their own BB-8s frowned on it.  I had similar issues in a model railway club, though they appreciated LEGO trains more at a show, where mine was voted the best alternative layout in a popular modelling magazine; that was down to the engineering and prototypical running compared to other layouts that had little moving.

What is key is to muster the support of the monorail fans in the LEGO community.  Some of them stick to the alternative of 3D-printed parts for the old monorail; if we have lost them then some of the hope of getting TLG to produce a set goes with them; a community divided against itself cannot stand (or raise enough support).  Relying too much on 3rd-party support (e.g. for motors where the investment is more there than in the LEGO parts) seems like "not LEGO" to me.  The occasional 3D-printed ABS part might be OK and I do like BBB wheels as their quality is good.

Mark

[fred67]

I'm sorry you feel that way - I'm not that pessimistic about LEGO, in general.  I do feel bad that a lot of classic themes seem to have gone by the wayside - Castle, in particular, but also space, but newer unlicensed themes seem to work.  City, and related, themes seem to be doing OK (the creator line has some spectacular things in it).  We do still get the occasional train set, at least.

The problem is that you take a subset of the population (those into LEGO), then divide it further and further into the tiny niche that wants a monorail, and you're just not going to get the support.  Your ideas project is awesome - I supported the minute I saw it (before this thread), but it simply doesn't have the appeal most classic sets have, so even amongst LEGO enthusiasts it won't gain that much traction.

It's sad that, in public displays, LEGO trains and monorails (original or fan made) seem to get a lot of "oohs" and "wows," but it doesn't translate in to sales.

Edited April 26, 2018 by fred67

[Artanis I]

Perhaps we should be turning our attention to customising the new rollercoaster system instead

[knotian]

I'm going to go WAY OUT  on a limb and suggest something I'd like to see. I like industrial buildings and would like to see operational features that could be handled by a "monorail" system. Notice the quotes. In my experience I have seen three rail (two Gauges on same sleepers) as well as four rail in industrial settings. I'd love to see the Lego narrow and standard track be combined with three rail switches but I'm sure there would only be limited market demand.

An alternative to multi gauge would be a 'trackless' based system - (don't kill me yet!!)- This would have single rails that would be 1 1/3 brick high, stud mounted. These would have both sides serrated.This would allow layouts to have roads ( standard tiles) with the rail in the middle to serve as a guide rail for autonomous vehicles as well as a surface that a rubber tired wheel could make contact with for movement and control. There would have to be two sized round "rail bricks"  such that they could be mounted on adjacent studs as well as diagonal studs to form continuous curves. Straight "rail bricks" could also be made. This is much like the current monorail without the fixed plate/rail configuration.

 

   

[MAB]

On 26/04/2018 at 4:51 PM, Mark Bellis said:

You guys are right in the need to appeal beyond LEGO itself, but this is also a problem about LEGO.  It used to stand on its own as a toy.  If it is no longer popular enough without a famous brand attached then it is failing as a concept in this age of celebrity, short attention spans and "video or it didn't happen".  My aim is to make the best possible monorail set with a compatible theme (Space was 2oo3 of the original monorail sets), great engineering (faster, fewer limits, reliable) and minimal obsolescence (so it lasts for ever as a concept rather than having ridiculous prices that make it inaccessible to further generations).

1

You seem to be blaming the current generation with a desire for licensed sets - "no longer popular enough without a famous brand attached" - for causing a problem with LEGO. Yet your idea is to create "the best possible monorail set with a compatible theme", is doing exactly the same thing, just with an in-house theme rather than a licensed theme. Linking it to Classic Space, for example, to feed off people that also want a Classic Space revival. That is not really any different to wanting a Monorail attached to a Disney property. It is using the theme to sell the idea of a monorail.

 

On 27/04/2018 at 2:40 AM, Artanis I said:

Perhaps we should be turning our attention to customising the new rollercoaster system instead

Yes, and I just hope they stick with this now. They have done other narrow track in the past and not really done a very good job with expanding it, making curves and ramps but not even a straight piece. It will be good to have a decent and reasonably complete range of narrow gauge track.

[Brickthus]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

You seem to be blaming the current generation with a desire for licensed sets - "no longer popular enough without a famous brand attached" - for causing a problem with LEGO. Yet your idea is to create "the best possible monorail set with a compatible theme", is doing exactly the same thing, just with an in-house theme rather than a licensed theme. Linking it to Classic Space, for example, to feed off people that also want a Classic Space revival. That is not really any different to wanting a Monorail attached to a Disney property. It is using the theme to sell the idea of a monorail.

 

Yes, and I just hope they stick with this now. They have done other narrow track in the past and not really done a very good job with expanding it, making curves and ramps but not even a straight piece. It will be good to have a decent and reasonably complete range of narrow gauge track.

Not the generation (people) but the world-wide media culture.  Ever-shorter attention spans mean that some LEGO sets get simpler to give a child more instant gratification (Juniors and the former Jack Stone range).  The new even-larger sets are designed for adult fans who grew up in an age of greater perseverance.  You can see the difference between famous brands that are attached to adverts or TV programmes, and those traditional in-house themes such as Classic Space.  Classic Space is not a brand attached to other products to sell LEGO, but it is the Space theme that I have more parts for than others.  Also, I want a Classic Space revival, regardless of how many others agree; it was my favourite minifig-based theme other than Trains.  We have had Benny's Spaceship and the Exo-suit but these were not followed up; perhaps Space itself, or any imaginary in-house space-based theme (without a famous brand like Star Wars or Star Trek), has insufficient following to be a feasible market.  Space is part of the original context of LEGO monorail; it would look odd with a castle theme!  I have deliberately made the monorail adaptable to all Space themes because the market is too small for a single one to succeed on its own.  I will have trains in some of the other Space themes by the time I exhibit a scenic layout.

Yes, both Disney and Classic Space fans are likely to want a monorail but that is market understanding, or context, not attaching a brand for the sake of attracting sales.  The latter is a shallow technique used more as the culture develops.  You would have grounds if there had been a Star Wars monorail that I had aped (one in a film, not the painted-up real one); if I had done that, I would have at least five times the number of supporters by now.  Once something is liked and shared on phones it is gone from most people's imagination.  This is where an in-house LEGO theme struggles more nowadays.  Nexo Knights and Friends each have a TV series to accompany the sets - one long advert, a bit like the Gadget Show for adults.  The broken-record technique used on kids; would parents like that?  At least the reusability of LEGO means it's not a one-use toy.  Sales on the basis of substance and reliability are much harder to make in a culture that concentrates on the short term wow-factor.

It will probably be that there are not enough monorail fans remaining.  What a shame to give TLG the ammo to say no-one wants a monorail.    Still, we build for the love of the hobby.

 

The roller-coaster system is good but I wonder how long it will last.  The track parts are optimal by using less plastic and having a tight radius.  The theme focuses on putting minifigs on the train for play value.  The cars are bespoke, which might be necessary to ensure low friction.  By being simple it can be deployed in ordinary sets such as mines.  Perhaps a Space command centre too, not needing a whole track circuit.  There could also be a rocket test strip with lots of straights (from Indiana Jones).

The key is how the train is powered, at least where there is a whole track circuit with slopes.  A roller-coaster is fine with off-track motive power on the straights.  Continued motion on the curves has to depend on the shallow slopes, as can be seen in the sets.  A motor on a train would struggle to climb the slope pieces without a long run-up, and would then struggle for grip and against gravity, purely on power-to-weight ratio with an on-board battery.  One weakness of the system is in the chain drive that would eventually wear out the track cross-members.  I have seen a MOC with pinch rollers of soft tyres, which can launch the cars up a decent slope for the usual descent pattern to take over; this has no limit on input power as long as the train stays on the track.

We will see what happens in 2 years' time.  The system is versatile enough to fulfil all the roles of the Indy mine track so it has some staying power as a set of parts in several themes.  In the fairground range there ought to be a ghost train before the demise of the system; this could use pinch rollers at the start and shallow slopes in the middle, without a tall slope.  We will see whether there will be another new roller-coaster set later or whether a fourth type of fairground ride will take over after this, the carousels and ferris wheels.  Until then, enjoy, and make world-record track lengths; the initial large set might be the best source of parts as further sets might be smaller in their track scope.  A bulk-buy of middle-slope pieces is advisable to gain height for a longer track, since the trains will run out of momentum in a relatively short horizontal distance and angling straights might be an "illegal move"!

The roller-coaster system will absorb what was left of our chances of TLG producing another monorail, at least for a few years.  We had better be careful how much it bites out of the Trains theme too!

Mark

[fred67]

You seem to be blaming the current generation with a desire for licensed sets - "no longer popular enough without a famous brand attached" - for causing a problem with LEGO. Yet your idea is to create "the best possible monorail set with a compatible theme", is doing exactly the same thing, just with an in-house theme rather than a licensed theme. Linking it to Classic Space, for example, to feed off people that also want a Classic Space revival. That is not really any different to wanting a Monorail attached to a Disney property. It is using the theme to sell the idea of a monorail.

I don't think so.  He said "If."  There is something to it, though.  The problem here is that monorail is just not popular on it's own, it's not that anything made needs to have a license - it's that monorail will not succeed on it's own.  That's not just the impression I get, it's the impression TLG has from focus groups, it's the fact that Ideas projects, no matter how good they are from the perspective of monorail builds, do not succeed.  So the question was asked (first post) what would it take, and I started us down this path that it would need to be tied to something else.  Classic Space is great - but again, there is not enough nostalgia to make a project work just because it's tied to classic space.  I feel like I've seen plenty of classic space ideas come and go on Ideas.

The monorails posted have been really great, and I'm working on my own because they've inspired me, and that's awesome, I think.  But if the question is what it would take to make a monorail project successful (success being defined as reaching 10k supporters), then it would require some other hook.  Yes, it would.  You may not like it, I may not like it (I'd much rather have a generic city themed monorail to run in my city than a Disney one), but it's just the reality.

On 4/26/2018 at 9:40 PM, Artanis I said:

Perhaps we should be turning our attention to customising the new rollercoaster system instead

6 hours ago, MAB said:

Yes, and I just hope they stick with this now. They have done other narrow track in the past and not really done a very good job with expanding it, making curves and ramps but not even a straight piece. It will be good to have a decent and reasonably complete range of narrow gauge track.

What does the roller coaster have to do with monorail?  Does anyone really think a successful monorail would "distract" TLG from something else?  I don't understand this at all - it's like someone suggesting we should bring back classic space, and someone else saying we should just pay attention to Star Wars - they have absolutely ZERO to do with each other, nor do they have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

[Brickthus]

5 minutes ago, fred67 said:

What does the roller coaster have to do with monorail?  Does anyone really think a successful monorail would "distract" TLG from something else?  I don't understand this at all - it's like someone suggesting we should bring back classic space, and someone else saying we should just pay attention to Star Wars - they have absolutely ZERO to do with each other, nor do they have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

True, but there is the matter of capacity.  Given that the parts factories use expensive real estate and hence parts production, stored inventory and machine capacity are considered carefully, TLG would have only a limited number of track systems active at once.  Having two, with Trains and Roller-Coaster, puts off a monorail for a few years.  Given that the Roller-Coaster parts are versatile enough to be in quite a few other sets and themes, this would cover off Indy Mine track for the foreseeable future, but that also means putting off monorail.  We have not seen the wide range of Train track pieces that we hoped for; only a crossover and the much-lambasted flexi-track.  The Roller-Coaster track has 7 different pieces, which is a bigger initial investment.

This is why I went for a basic-piece monorail.  A decent monorail system has to last for decades, not just 3 sets and 2 track packs.  By using common pieces it could last for ever and need no additional investment in moulds.  If only the delivery of parts orders from TLG would be as quick as promised, I might be able to update the project a bit more often!

Mark

[fred67]

Well, I don't want to start an argument, and I don't want to stalk, or call out, Artanis (because I believe he's a valuable member of EB), but that single line post just seems completely out of place here.  He hasn't gone to every other thread about "wanted" sets/parts and posted it.  The coaster track is definitely interesting, worthy of a topic on how we can use it to make transportation systems in our cities, or moon-bases, or however we want - but it's not monorail.

[Brickthus]

3 minutes ago, fred67 said:

Well, I don't want to start an argument, and I don't want to stalk, or call out, Artanis (because I believe he's a valuable member of EB), but that single line post just seems completely out of place here.  He hasn't gone to every other thread about "wanted" sets/parts and posted it.  The coaster track is definitely interesting, worthy of a topic on how we can use it to make transportation systems in our cities, or moon-bases, or however we want - but it's not monorail.

I think we agree, though I would take the apparent distraction as a pointer to what a monorail track system has to deliver.  It is a matter of both engineering and marketing.

So let's say in 4-6 years' time the new stuff has had its day and TLG have shifted all the track parts they've moulded.  A monorail system has to do just as well but use a motor on the train.

Another consideration for a product theme is Intellectual Property, which means TLG keeping one step ahead of the cloners with their new pieces.  The 2x4 brick patent may have expired but that does not stop TLG carrying on with a patent for every new piece and system of pieces.  We see the patents for the original monorail pieces.  These give the LEGO brand some exclusivity.

Alongside that, a brick-built monorail track would not be strong enough if built with most clone brands.  The cloners might not consider making a 1/8 circle curve from 70 pieces because they concentrate on cheap production and quick sales.  They don't care if their bricks end up in landfill or the Pacific.  To throw away genuine LEGO bricks is a crime, considering how well they last.

A monorail track system has a compromise to make.  If we want multiple curve radii, to blow away the old restriction, then the pieces used have to be not too bespoke.  One can either stress a few small plates a little for radii down to 48M, or use coupling plates for radii as tight as 12M.  The stress can be removed with some 2018 pieces, though the curves would then have to be formed around a regular curved object as they would lack the self-regulating springiness of the small amount of stress.

Then there is the form of motorisation on the train.  A vertical motor (e.g. XL) can do any curve radius but is quite fixed, like the original system.  This needed a bespoke motor cover piece, much sought-after and now pricey.  A horizontal motor or train motor might be limited in the tightness of the radius, unless the drive shaft can pivot on top of the motor bogie pivot (I've tried it but it gets unwieldy).  Torque-steer is not an option technically; it would not be reliable enough, so that rules out a vertical drive shaft going through a bogie pivot.  The technique may be used in MOC trains but this is for a set, where extensive reliability trials are done.  The aim to have longer, faster trains needs a powerful motor and a simple drive-train.

These things, and removing other limits of the original monorail, are the reasons for choosing the system I built.

Mark

[xadrian]

Quote

Lego designers tested a monorail system idea with kids, but their reaction wasn't the highest on the "this is awesome!" scale.

I get that, but I also see what kids look at when they come to non-Lego cons or fairs where we display and the monorail builds always do well.  Now, if there's a train there too, the train gets more attention.  But I just don't get how something with lights and motors would elicit less of a reaction than, say, BF or Creator sets.  My son's 13 and he gave up on LEGO for a couple years, despite me getting him more sets.  He finally told me not to get him any more.  But man, I rebuilt my Futuron monorail as a Blacktron theme, threw some LEDs and light wires on it and he couldn't stop messing with it.

So, if it were up to me, which it isn't, I'd incorporate more lights but make them so you can rework them with the track.  I mean, you could have a Wakanda set with a monorail and those pylons along the train all lit up.  The new Solo movie has a train thing showing up in the preview, no reason you couldn't adapt that to the monorail track.  In fact, that would work pretty well given how sturdy those tracks are.

[fred67]

I agree - kids see an actual running setup at train shows and they love it - I don't know what goes on in TLGs focus groups.  "Do you think you'd like a train?" and "Do you think you'd like a monorail?" are obviously not going to get great responses.  I also don't think kids would get too excited about the Parisian Restaurant, if you catch my meaning.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by fred67

[MAB]

1 hour ago, fred67 said:

What does the roller coaster have to do with monorail?  Does anyone really think a successful monorail would "distract" TLG from something else?  I don't understand this at all - it's like someone suggesting we should bring back classic space, and someone else saying we should just pay attention to Star Wars - they have absolutely ZERO to do with each other, nor do they have anything to do with the subject of this thread.

 

Come off it, they are both rail based transportation systems; one has one rail, the other has two. They clearly have overlap there. Obviously when used as a roller coaster, it is not a regular transit system like trains but LEGO is showing they can also be used for other things (mine carts) and clearly they can be used for smaller scale trains too. And as to Star Wars and Space - that is the argument many people use to explain why Classic Space hasn't come back - due to SW. So of course other track based systems have something to do with the subject of this thread, the question is there in the OP - "Also, what would it take to make a successful Lego monorail Ideas project?". In my view, the answer is nothing while LEGO are still making trains.

 

1 hour ago, Mark Bellis said:

It will probably be that there are not enough monorail fans remaining.  What a shame to give TLG the ammo to say no-one wants a monorail.    Still, we build for the love of the hobby.

 

Yes, I think that is true. There are simply not enough adults that would buy a LEGO monorail, and it is not interesting enough for kids (compared to what else is available) unless tied into a license they follow. Even trains seem to be dwindling in popularity based on how much LEGO releases now, and any (City based) monorail sets would fight for shelf space and purchases with that. I would imagine any space based monorail would also compete with trains, whether or not the people (probably adults) buying them end up theming them as space or city. The same is true of Classic Space. Kids these days don't share the same vision of the future from 40 years ago. Much like kids from 40 years ago. Nostalgia isn't enough to sell large ranges.

Moreover, anything based on a monorail system needs to be a range, not a single set. They won't go to the expense of developing new parts for a monorail just to put it into a single smallish set.

 

[MAB]

44 minutes ago, fred67 said:

I agree - kids see an actual running setup at train shows and they love it - I don't know what goes on in TLGs focus groups.  "Do you think you'd like a train?" and "Do you think you'd like a monorail?" are obviously not going to get great responses.  I also don't think kids would get too excited about the Parisian Restaurant, if you catch my meaning.

 

Do you like this or this? Would you play with this or this? Those are often the questions asked at such focus groups. It is this against this. Not just do you like this.

Give a kid a toy and ask if they like it, chances are it is a yes. Give them another one, they'll like it too. But ask them which they prefer and they need to choose. That is probably why trains never do that well at focus groups. Especially as to do a train well you need a lot of track. Running a train around a simple loop is boring after a while. Whereas a set with no track gives more play freedom, even if similar.

For example:

vs

Even though they are all transport systems, there is much more freedom for play in the top row compared to the bottom. Driving the train is fun for five minutes, but all it can do is go round and round, unless the parents have a big budget for track.

 

 

As for Parisian Restaurant, the box gives a clue: 16+. It doesn't have to play test well with kids, as they are not the market for it. LEGO has (slowly) discovered there is an adult market for the Modulars, which have evolved significantly since Cafe Corner. They are finding there is a market for other adult sets like the fairground rides, which again are slowly evolving. Both of those ranges didn't need large developments or expensive parts up front. A monorail will differ. They have to get all / most of the parts developed for the first set before they can test the profitability based on real sales.

 

[Vilhelm22]

The old blue and then grey tracks from the 1960s, 70s and 80s could be the track.  One individual rail, and you can make a train motor type thing with one motor.  

But do you think the rail needs to be one or two studs wide?  Or a new piece all together of about 1.5 studs?  The original idea was pretty stupid really.  Too expensive?  They made it twice as wide as was needed.  However, I think that they were kind of on the right lines - just not exactly.

Edited May 1, 2018 by Vilhelm22

[Artanis I]

Sorry to.................DERAIL the thread......

I posted what I did, as a suggestion, because I figure that the whole reason we specifically want "monorail and not just normal rail" is because of the compact size, the ability to go up and down and around and make something exciting rather than just chug-chug-chug around a flat town layout on enormous wide track & radius. I look at this rollercoaster thing, and I see something that is easily usable in place of the traditional monorail system (minus points and switches, but these could be worked out I'm sure) of which I have been a huge fan and have 4.5 trains (I never finished my SP1 train) and plenty of track.

I personally see this new set and am ready to let go of monorail and trying to either revive it or design some complicated brick-built track version.

TLG has done the leg work for us, we could easily connect up technic gizmos to drive it around our space base, mountain mine, Ninjago City, whatever. And dress up the carts so that they look the part for the desired build.

I just feel that maybe we don't need a new monorail anymore, so this type of thread is possibly no longer necessary, while 2 years ago I saw it completely differently. But if people still want to dream or try things that's fine, I was just suggesting that maybe our long-time pining was no longer required. I still think the monorails are cool, but I think the rollercoaster system could work for us, so why waste our time, effort and money on trying to invent a new wheel when TLG just did one we could use for our purposes.