Switching points - not so smooth operation

[Bartosz]

Hello,

While bricklinking some parts I've bought my first switching tracks - used - so I can't compare with new ones. I've got a feeling it's fairly hard to switch (using that yellow part). Sometimes I fear it could break. 

Is it because the parts are not new, even if visually they look ok? Or is it because they just weren't used for a while? Can something be done about it? What's inside of them anyway - springs, metal parts, could it corrode?

[icemorons]

@Bartosz  I've found that sometimes when new, the switch mechanisms are fairly hard to throw.   However, with time, I've found them to get a little easier.   Keep in mind, it is never going to feel smooth, that's just the design.  I don't believe there are any metal parts inside the switching mechanism.  The only possible place where there could be, would be a spring that keeps the switch points oriented the way that you've thrown, but allows a train traveling in the opposite direction to continue on, without derailing.  Not having opened up one of the mechanisms before, I don't know firsthand whether that spring is metal or plastic.  My gut tells me it's plastic, though.   

 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

I've the same problem with the new switch ...after some use the mechanism seems better ...but if I leave the swicth on the same position for a long while the mechanis seems stuck again

I always thought that a long use during the years could solve the problem

[Toastie]

Hi Bartosz,

regardless of 9V or PF: It is always the plastics (ABS that is). I have "opened" a number of 9V switch points. The metal used inside (9V conducting rails, and the spring mentioned by icemorons) was always shiny and in good shape. These pieces hardly can cause such friction. ABS though can, when resting without any pressure in one position and then all of a sudden being forced into a less free environment. This is happening inside the switch. Also, it depends on how often the switch was thrown in its lifetime and how the plastic material did (very little, but that is enough) suffer from that. Even brand new switch points may behave like that. It really is a result of the design and the fact that ABS is ABS.   

And it is really simple to take care of that issue provided you have no problem taking apart a LEGO piece (not designed to be taken apart by using a drill), then sanding off some ABS, then putting it back together by very carefully applying some super glue (cyan acrylate based, works very nicely with ABS!).

Happy to provide more info (on this horrible procedure for LEGO purists).

Best wishes,
Thorsten   

[Bartosz]

14 minutes ago, Toastie said:

Happy to provide more info (on this horrible procedure for LEGO purists).

Oh! Hope I won't have to resort to this! And not because I'm purist, I'd fear I break it and probably my reassembly would be awful ;D

[dr_spock]

I haven't broken a switch yet.  There is some resistance to being thrown. You could hook up a servo motor to switch and see how long before it breaks from repeated switching. 

 

[Bartosz]

@dr_spock and now you've just given me idea what to do (no, not trying to break switch, but rather build such motorized switch)! This is nice:)

I already have an arduino clone with motor driver built in, and I see the servo you've used is cheap...ok, ok - slow down man, you dont have time for this (but one of these days...!)

Edited April 20, 2018 by Bartosz

[sed6]

7 hours ago, Bartosz said:

Oh! Hope I won't have to resort to this! And not because I'm purist, I'd fear I break it and probably my reassembly would be awful ;D

I too have several new switches that are hard to throw. I bet you could squirt a little graphite powder lube inside to make them smoother. In fact I'll try first and report back soon. 

[Bartosz]

22 minutes ago, sed6 said:

graphite powder

I was wondering what lubricant could be good. In some thread about monorail , I've found out about kontakt 60, but that's just too expensive:) 

[Toastie]

8 hours ago, sed6 said:

I too have several new switches that are hard to throw. I bet you could squirt a little graphite powder lube inside to make them smoother. In fact I'll try first and report back soon. 

 

8 hours ago, Bartosz said:

I was wondering what lubricant could be good. In some thread about monorail , I've found out about kontakt 60, but that's just too expensive:) 

The thing is that the surfaces to be lubricated are rather nicely confined within the switch. I tried it, it works depending on the amount you use. After a while though, any lubricant making it to the areas of interest also make it to other regions. You may then have some issues with clutch power of anything attached to the switch point e.g. a motorized switch drive.

I used silicone based as well as WD40 (and the like) - no harm to ABS at all. Don't use too much though, rather wait longer times, try and add more if necessary.

After a couple of months you may find that the lubricant is not lubricating that good anymore but has turned into a more viscous stuff that may not let the spring operated switch point part not get back to its initial position.

Best,
Thorsten 

[dr_spock]

20 hours ago, Bartosz said:

@dr_spock and now you've just given me idea what to do (no, not trying to break switch, but rather build such motorized switch)! This is nice:)

I already have an arduino clone with motor driver built in, and I see the servo you've used is cheap...ok, ok - slow down man, you dont have time for this (but one of these days...!)

So many ideas and so little time. Isn't that how it works?  

20 hours ago, sed6 said:

I too have several new switches that are hard to throw. I bet you could squirt a little graphite powder lube inside to make them smoother. In fact I'll try first and report back soon. 

The graphite powder works great for Kadee HO couplers inside the small space of the coupler box.  The LEGO switch track internal mechanism might have a bigger area to cover with graphite.  Definitely some testing would be useful.

[Haddock51]

On my 9V Extreme layout, I have 12 switches that are operated electrically with PF Medium motors. I noticed from the very beginning that the "resistance" inside the switches is too high to change the switch position with these relatively powerfull motors.  When you open the 9V switches you find a small metal plate with four very small bumps. After grinding away these bumps, all switches work very smoothly.

Edited April 22, 2018 by Haddock51

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, Haddock51 said:

When you open the 9V switches you find a small metal plate with four very small bumps. After grinding away these bumps, all switches work very smoothly.

Same issue is with all plastic PF switches, so in addition to the metal plate there must be more. I was grinding (almost away) the two "bulges" on the plastic lever moving the point, which resides in a channel of the switch body with matching recesses. Upon doing that the point moves almost entirely freely, so I guess there must be two issues: One related to the metal bumps (I did not work on) and then the plastic lever.

Good to know!

Best
Thorsten     

[zephyr1934]

I haven't had any problems with M-motors and un-modified switches using a direct drive (see p37 in RB 12). Only trouble is that you have to be careful to cut power after the switch throws since the motor stalls. If you do not need the ability to run through the switch, there are also variants of the spear switch (first, second), which exploit the crimping holes in 9v track. That functionality can be replicated with the addition of a 3.1 mm hole in the side of PF track or by going under the track.

[Haddock51]

31 minutes ago, Toastie said:

 I was grinding (almost away) the two "bulges" on the plastic lever moving the point, which resides in a channel of the switch body with matching recesses. Upon doing that the point moves almost entirely freely,

As you pointed out previously, you need to be careful.

I had to discard one switch when it moved entirely free - without any remaining resistance at all (not an electrically operated switch). This resulted in multiple derailments because the switch apparently could not maintain any longer the selected switch position, i.e. ended up somewhere "in between".

[Haddock51]

12 minutes ago, zephyr1934 said:

 Only trouble is that you have to be careful to cut power after the switch throws since the motor stalls.

The two boxes you see to the left on this control center are switch boxes that I bought from weichentuner several years ago. The switches on these boxes open the current to the PF motors, but only as long as you press them in one direction. Then they automatically go back to the neutral position, thereby cutting power.

 

 

[sed6]

The graphite lube worked wonders! It also works great to lube the frog of yours is slow to spring back to the correct position. Just shoot a dab underneath it and work it back and forth. 

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by sed6
cnat spele

[Bartosz]

@sed6 Nice! Mine are definitely not as heavily stuck as yours in the video, but I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future:)

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Thanks fot the hint!

[Toastie]

15 hours ago, sed6 said:

The graphite lube worked wonders! It also works great to lube the frog of yours is slow to spring back to the correct position. Just shoot a dab underneath it and work it back and forth. 

Just make sure that it doesn't go "everywhere" over time. I had this issue far less pronounced with silicone based stuff. For the switches, this looks really good! Thanks for the video!

All the best,
Thorsten