Bartosz

4564 loco with PF and on the cheap

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Hello,

So I've wanted to re-create some of those older trains for Power Functions, but, the obvious problem is the size of the PF elements. After browsing this forum for a while, I've learnt couple of tricks though (mainly trick from @Brick Pirate's small shunter), so I decided to check whether it'd be possible to fit PF elements into the engine of 4564 set.

My other goal is to be able to bricklink it cheaply, so I've also replaced some rare parts.

The result would be pretty great, if not for the fact that I was not able to hide battery box fully - and I'm not sure if I'd try, I'd like to not make it taller - as it currently stands, it's only 1 plate higher than original.

Any ideas on improving it are welcome!

Kjm7RI2.png

More images at: https://imgur.com/a/vQZ11

And the LDR file: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v7jF9eCikgKt2e8_MWJCFB_9QrPpmGVz/view

Enjoy!

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This is why I think that PF is overrated and the worst train technology.

You did a good job to hide the PF elements, but now there is no space left for the minifig anymore.

And I guess, trying the same with set 4563 will cause greater problems.

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6 minutes ago, Carrera124 said:

And I guess, trying the same with set 4563 will cause greater problems.

Yup - 4563 is even smaller (one bogie).

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how does it look with the PF plugged onto the battery box? on the rear half, could you add a yellow 4x4 plate to hide the top?

I think with some designs it would be so much better if they had put the PF connectors on the side of the receiver, rather than in front.

 

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10 minutes ago, bradaz11 said:

on the rear half, could you add a yellow 4x4 plate to hide the top

This could have some consequences. When you look at it from the side view:

nLUmcse.png

You see that rear is already taller. Placing yellow 4x4 on top of battery box would mean it's even more taller, and we still have the gray line underneath. Now, we could alleviate that by introducing gray line in the front, and making front the same height as rear - now, that's definitely something to try out, but

a) we would have to move up IR a bit, otherwise it might get occluded

b) I think it's gonna destroy the proportions a bit

Edited by Bartosz

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@bradaz11

There's some merit to putting a yellow plate over battery box, and then adjusting front accordingly:

D3AoB.png

Just don't like the amount of gray that suddenly got exposed on the front top, it just means we now have three coloured lines (from bottom):

1) gray (as in original design)

2) black (as in original design)

3) gray - additional

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I have never used Ldraw, so I don't know what to do with the files shared or if you can examine parts with it. I'm assuming that you are using a solid black train base? could you use a plate, or sections of plate as the base, with the outer edge built up to give it the thickness, and enable you to drop the battery by 2 plates?

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8 minutes ago, bradaz11 said:

I have never used Ldraw, so I don't know what to do with the files shared or if you can examine parts with it. I'm assuming that you are using a solid black train base? could you use a plate, or sections of plate as the base, with the outer edge built up to give it the thickness, and enable you to drop the battery by 2 plates?

Yes - this is the black train plate. But the battery is over the motor bogie (it should drive better if motor wheels are "pushed" to the ground by battery weight. This means it cannot be lowered (in fact, it's one stud above the current train plate, just because one has to accomodate for bogie plate's pin).

Now, maybe it would make sense to use turntable plate instead of bogie plate...so many ideas to try out :D

 

// EDIT

Forgot the bogie plate is integral part of motor, it's not possible to get rid of the pin...

Edited by Bartosz

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what I found is if you can get the pin from the motor to sit in the screw hole in the battery box. obviously LDD ect will not let you, but it works.
and the train plate is hollow, so putting a lego technic plate for the motor to clip into, would bring the pin lower too. it just means the ride height is slightly higher as the top of the bogie plate is sitting against the base of the floor plate, rather than in it.

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Hi there, it is a nice challenge!

 I'm trying (on LDraw) to create a custom 6x24 base, so we can try to lower the battery a bit. The problem is the receiver and the cables connectors - I cannot figure how much space they will take. 

This evening I'll try to design it in LDD - but I think the entire locomotive needs a change of color - no more black lines, just light bluish and dark bluish gray, plus yellow.

This means probably the bogies will become light gray instead of black.

...let's see how it turns out :laugh:

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1 hour ago, bradaz11 said:

what I found is if you can get the pin from the motor to sit in the screw hole in the battery box.

This is something I have to try with real parts, thanks! Not sure I understand the other part of post :S  Got it now, and I think it's interesting to check as well.

1 hour ago, Paperinik77pk said:

This evening I'll try to design it in LDD - but I think the entire locomotive needs a change of color - no more black lines, just light bluish and dark bluish gray, plus yellow.

Yes - if the visible parts of PF gear forced us to add gray lines, the black ones might be just too much.

Edited by Bartosz

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46541465411

4654open1

 

Here it is, but I've made an enormous error - I did not keep the space for cables to run from battery to receiver. No problem I think, the battery can now be moved one stud towards the rear of the locomotive. Gray shutters will hide it.

It can be done, but we really are at the limit of space - and only yellow color can be changed. :laugh:

2 hours ago, bradaz11 said:

what I found is if you can get the pin from the motor to sit in the screw hole in the battery box. obviously LDD ect will not let you, but it works.
 

It is not visible in the drawing, but I followed your suggestion :wink: 

This thing must be built to see if everything stays in place...but it should:wub: . I'd change the yellow in red, to give it  a more "swiss" look.

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Neat! Couple of questions:

1. Is the 2x2 plate behind IR receiver simulating cable plug?

2. Since you've followed suggestion to fit pin in the battery box screw hole, it might not be possible to move it to accommodate the cable...

3. (following 2) Does it really require "custom" base plate?

 

Now, I don't have all the parts (especially in color), but I think I should be able to prototype the most important part of this.

Edited by Bartosz

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4 minutes ago, Bartosz said:

Neat! Couple of questions:

1. Is the 2x2 plate behind IR receiver simulating cable plug?

2. Since you've followed suggestion to fit pin in the battery box screw hole, it might not be possible to move it to accommodate the cable...

3. (following 2) Does it really require "custom" base plate?

 

Now, I don't have all the parts (especially in color), but I think I should be able to prototype the most important part of this.

1) it is there to keep together the muffler and the glass, I'd have to see it in reality if it fits - otherwise I've to find another solution based on cable plug (I never remember how it's done) :wink: 

2) Aw...you're right! But The battery is flat underneath - I think it could work aswell.

3) Maybe it can be done without , but the grey upper part will be visible on top of rear bonnet

Let me say, you had a nice idea to "reload" this locomotive - I liked it a lot when I bought it. :thumbup:

 

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Wait for the new PF to be released by TLG. It could help with someone your design concerns. Or maybe use a non Lego Lipo? They are much small. 

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5 minutes ago, sed6 said:

Wait for the new PF to be released by TLG. It could help with someone your design concerns. Or maybe use a non Lego Lipo? They are much small. 

Yeah, I wonder - from what I've read it might rule out the IR receiver, which is supposedly now integrated into battery box. But - does this mean it's really tiny and fits in current size of battery box, or does it mean that...battery box is getting bigger :) ?

As for other batteries - I've stumbled upon 9V (PP3) rechargeable battery at my household which is slightly smaller than standard one, and fits exactly in 2 x 6 x 3. Now, with thing like that, one could even try to fit it in small shunter like 7760. Haven't tried it yet though - don't have proper charger at hand.

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:wink: Above is a link to my 7760 PF.

DarkGreen PF industrial loco inside split

Here is another loco I made with PP3 battery,  to make really compact designs.

Edited by Selander

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Very nice!!! the use of the 9v battery really helps. It would be perfect for the remake of 4564!

...and many other engines not PF-native :sweet:

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@Selander In your 7760 thread, you've mentioned you used 1 x 4 x 3 panels to fit the 9V battery, and those aren't common parts. Was it necesity, or were you able to find 9V batteries that would fit without use of panels?

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PP3 battery is about 3studs wide,  hence panels are needed to make it fit in a 4wide hood like 7760 has. 

I don't understand what you mean with "those are not common parts"...

My DkGreen loco has a 5wide brickbuilt hood, leaving a 3wide gap for the PP3.

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1 hour ago, Selander said:

I don't understand what you mean with "those are not common parts"...

It just means when I was looking for it via BrickLink (1 x 4 x 3 blue panel), I was unable to find anything that ships from my country, but now I know why - I've searched for part with "undetermined stud type". There's bit more of others (2 other molds), not *that* much though.

Anyhow, this is worth pursuing. Not only it means less fiddling and changes to original design, but it should also be cheaper. I know it's gonna provide less hours of playtime, but whether it's annoying or not, that's something to find out.

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17 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

2) Aw...you're right! But The battery is flat underneath - I think it could work aswell.

I've checked it, it...sort of works, but when you push the motor bogie towards the plate, you see that battery box is starting to detach. Whether it would be an issue in practice, I don't know.

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@Bartosz  You might consider swapping the locations for the IR receiver and the battery box.   Due to the presence of a pair of grey shutters on the front (long hood) of the locomotive, you'll have five studs' worth of the battery box that can be hidden by shutters if it is moved to the front.   The remaining three studs can be occluded by the cab, and perhaps the wiring connections also.   The IR receiver will be occluded by the shutter on the rear.   It's a suggestion...

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Hi, go and buy a buwizz battery, which includes already a Bluetooth receiver. And it’s only 3 instead of 4 bricks high.

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13 hours ago, Bartosz said:

I've checked it, it...sort of works, but when you push the motor bogie towards the plate, you see that battery box is starting to detach. Whether it would be an issue in practice, I don't know.

Hi there @Bartosz, this evening I redraw the whole thing :laugh:...since the battery detachment was not a good thing.

I changed all the chassis using LDD, and made the whole locomotive more similar to the 4564. I gave up with shutters for this reason: when it comes to attach cables - there's no problem on battery side but there are a lot on receiver side (PF cables are AWFUL).

4564-4

Therefore, I used some common semi-tiled plates on the side - pretending the nose of the locomotive becomes slightly bigger moving towards the cabin. Same with the rear bonnet. I know, it is not an original solution AT ALL :hmpf_bad:.

4564-2

 

Battery was turned by 180 degrees, so I could accomodate the connector inside the cabin (the connector is fake , but proporsions are correct. The muffler is the switch,and it is blocked in place by the roof. Receiver was moved way forward, since fitting cables will be quite a mess. I kept your nice idea of handrails and I added a "door" on the cabin.

4564

 

If you look at the connector on PF receiver you will notice the cable will not leave room for the shutter holder - I tried with plates with clips - but an empty space will remain, since the cable connector is just in the middle.

4564-3

The chassis leaves room for cable to go towards the rear motor (I put two motors for simplicity). Looking at the parts, I think this one should cost less than the one with all gray details I drew before (personally I like this more).

If you like to see it in detaiI I can share the .lxf file, no problem at all.  This is however one way to "reload" the original model, not necessarily the only one - some proposals in this thread (inverting battery and receiver position for example) are absolutely to be tried. @Selander green loco introduces a good way to mask the gray part of the receiver with a black sticker or tape. Instead of hiding the battery and the controller - you could try to show them where black lines are.

I'd love to see how your prototype goes on.:laugh:

Ciao!

Davide

 

 

Edited by Paperinik77pk

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