MOCer's will you buy the new train sets?

[sed6]

I cut my teeth on 60051and 60052 just this past fall so I'm new to Lego trains. I had been eagerly awaiting Legos new train releases this spring or summer but now not so much. In the past few months I've designed and built many of my own engines and cars and with each new one I make the desire to buy one of Legos new sets diminishes. Don't get me wrong, I still want to support Lego and do want to try out their new PF offerings, but as I become more and more experienced at creating my own the desire to buy a complete train set lessens. What say you all, will you experienced MOCer's buy the new sets?

[Stefaneris]

My answer is: No

I hoped Lego would bring back the light blueish grey axle holder or other nice train parts. Since that's not the case I don't buy the new train sets (unless there's some really good offer somewhere) I like to buy only the parts I need for my MOCs and using the train sets as parts pack isn't an option for me because of the points I said before. Also I would get 16 extra curves which I don't need.

[Hod Carrier]

Nope.

I think you’re going through the same process I went through. The more I visualise, design and build the less I wish to buy TLG’s official offerings. Surely the whole point of LEGO is that you can build whatever your mind can imagine.

[CrispyBassist]

Nope. I'll buy the Power Functions bits and track to support tlg, but the sets don't appeal to me anymore. I'd rather moc things that I want to and make them as realistic as possible. 

I was tempted by the Maersk set though...

[M_slug357]

@CrispyBassist Same here! i just want to fiddle around with the PF2 components already! It would be great if Lego released a promo video that showcases the PF2 components and any/all new features therein. What still baffles me is how TLG managed to make a worse-looking wave of trains when compared to the last two.

However, in TLG's defense, there where the oddities in the 9V line as well. Just have a look at sets 4559 and  4561! These two sets tried to mesh freight and passenger service into one set, with hilariously bad results. So, maybe the first wave of PF2 train sets will be the ((wholly unnecessary)) oddities of their generation.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is also another ((wildly speculative)) theory of mine, wherein those leaked images could be just a ruse by TLG to throw off those "other" clone brands... and the real train sets coming out later on actually look fantastic-- possibly better than 60098, 60052, and 60051...!

but that's justa theory of mines...

 

[dr_spock]

Generally no, unless the set is a good parts pack.  Why pay someone else when you can make your own?

 

[pirzyk]

I probably will buy one freight to part out and maybe during an AFOL day.

[Redimus]

I liked the look of what we saw, especially the passenger set that reminded me of the prototype HST.

[Paperinik77pk]

It depends - some trains were really nice - for example I bought two Emerald nights at the time - then I kept them unopened,waiting for whoknowswhat - and then...I realized they triplicated their value. And I sold them.

But I still like the Emerald night. I liked the TGV (pity I did not buy two of them ), and also the Maersk freight. But all these sets were well done and  aimed to collectors more than  kids.

Current Lego train sets are not so fascinating to me...but I understand their main goal is to sell...and generate some "appetite" to build MOCs  on younger minds  

 

 

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

These new sets are really ugly, I surely not buy anything ...the Lego Group should offer set like Maersk to capture my attention

[Haddock51]

My answer is no.

For me, these sets are - another - big disappointment, for several reasons. Some of these reasons go beyond the questions and questionmarks re. these new sets and touch base on my frustration about TLGs overall strategy when it comes to Lego trains (if there is a strategy ...)

I will continue to focus on MOCs and trains/train ideas that catch my interest.

Edited March 24, 2018 by Haddock51

[*thomas*]

Unless I can buy them at a great discount, I would maybe (and that's a big maybe) buy the freight train. Not because I like the look of it, I find it ugly as ****, but for the parts.

[Robin_IV]

Only if they will release a good train set I am going to buy it.

It's so poor that "Train" is not a enduring theme in the LEGO kategories and that they have sets like the high speed train over years and over again. And I wish to me that they reintroduce the option to buy single cars and engines and spare parts sets as they were available 20 years  before...

[Bricksmith]

For me it'll depend on whether they have enough useful parts, and at good value.

If the new PF system is very useful and isn't sold elsewhere, I'd certainly be tempted. But even then, I'd need a closer look at the sets before I decide.

[ElectroDiva]

This thread Is a bit depressing :(

 

So many train AFOLs potentially giving the new sets a miss...

 

I understand the reasons but personally I will buy at least the cargo set to get access to the new PF 2.0 parts and more importantly, to show TLG there is a market for train sets (even if they are not 100% what i would have wanted)

 

 

[Rail Co]

Definitely will be getting the cargo train. I actually like the design of the engine in the set because it isn't something we have seen TLG make in awhile (of this style of train). The passenger train im debating, I'd have to look at the final images and not the preliminary images that were leaked...

PF2 looks to be very promising though!

Edited March 24, 2018 by Rail Co

[Duq]

Freight train probably, passenger train possibly. Even if I'm not impressed with the design there's bound to be useful parts in them and boycotting the few train sets that Lego produces is hardly going to convince them to release more, is it?

[Haddock51]

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎25 at 12:24 PM, Duq said:

Freight train probably, passenger train possibly. Even if I'm not impressed with the design there's bound to be useful parts in them and boycotting the few train sets that Lego produces is hardly going to convince them to release more, is it?

Duq, I totally disagree with your reasoning. And the same for you, Electrodiva.

This is not about boycotting the bones that TLG continues to throw at Train AFOLs and MOCers.  A "no buy decision" is a clear signal and message that these new sets simply don't meet the expectations from existing customers that traditionally have spent and still are spending quite some money for Lego trains. Simply not good enough, again ...

As long as you - as MOCers/AFOLs - keep picking up these bones, it will keep TLG happy and convinced that they don't need/have to invest more than "necessary" in trains - and that the short term cashcow approach continues to pay off (at least for the time being ...).

And to read about MOCers who consider to buy these sets (eventually at discounts) primarily to get cheap (?) access to spare parts makes me really wondering. And so should TLG.

Honestly, why throw away good money for stuff that you even don't like ...?!? And why spend money on new sets just for the sake of spare parts that you eventually won't need anyway - and occupy valuable space?

PS: I recently bought "The Lego Trains Bok" by @HoMa. Very interesting and inspiring reading indeed with several nice cases. This certainly raised my mood after the disappointment and frustration following TLGs news.  So I decided to start building the vintage train with the Be 6/8 "Crocodile" myself. Certainly not a cheap project but I am quite sure it's worth every krona spent. Good money (originally eyemarked back in 2017 for TLGs new train sets to be released in 2018) for very good stuff ...!

Hopefully, we will see more and similar intiatives in the future. I am convinced that the MOC market for Lego trains will continue to grow and expand, irrespective if you use PF ore 9V. Digital Tools like LDD, MLCad, Stud.io, Rebrickable etc. will certainly continue to drive this segment. Using these tools will also save you money when planning and building MOCs because you can skip building up (unnecessary) spare part inventories.

So where does this leave TLG ...?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Haddock51

[Duq]

10 minutes ago, Haddock51 said:

... the bones that TLG continues to throw at Train AFOLs...

 

 

Honestly, why throw away good money for stuff that you even don't like ...?!?

These sets are not aimed at AFOLs. These sets are aimed at children. There have been very few sets aimed at AFOLs; Emerald Night, Maersk and Horizon Express, and Santa Fe and BNSF if you go back further.

Trains sell just about enough for Lego not to drop them. Police stations and Fire stations come out in a 3-year cycle and disappear from shops after 1-2 years. Trains come out in a 4-year cycle and stay in stores for the full 4 years. The length of that cycle is needed to recoup the development cost of the sets.

I regularly buy sets I don't like and I don't see that as throwing away good money for a simple reason: they contain Lego parts I can use in MOCs. And I'd rather get those parts from a Lego theme than a Disney theme.

 

[Haddock51]

This thread is about MOCers and their interest in buying these new sets.

I shared my opinion as a MOCer (and AFOL), having been involved in 9V trains since the early 90ies. My children are grown up so I refrain from answering as a parent of small children.

You basically confirm my theory - and concern -  that TLGs "strategy" for trains has been reduced to a short term cashcow and payback approach, primarily in a narrow and most likely not growing market segment - trains for children. And keep in mind that the children toys market - let alone the train niche - is highly competitive.

Just too bad...

I guess this thread clearly shows again that in reality, there is not one Lego Train market. The MOC/AFOL segment is very different from the children segment which can hardly be news for TLG.

Which of these segments is the most interesting one  to invest in - from a size, growth and financial profit point of view - medium and longterm? Your guess is as good as mine... 

I just don't believe in the idea of sporadically "feeding" the children segment with  new sets - or rather new versions of old sets - and hoping that MOCers/AFOLs at least partially will feel happy (e.g. by sneaking out a new PF version...) and accept starving for a couple of more years until it's their turn again. This is what I call "throwing bones". Unbelievable !  Begging for "no buy decisions" indeed ...

The train sets you mentionned for AFOLs are ok, but simply too few. For example, MOCers and AFOLs have been screaming for a long time to see new steam engines. TLGs response: zero.  And many years have elapsed since the EN ... 

Again, @HoMas book is a good example of how you can adress these (unmet) MOC needs and expectations: a very nice and instructive case with the German BR 10 Steam Engine, including parts list and building instructions!

As I wrote as PS in my previous post, I am rather optimistic about the future of the Lego Train MOC market. However, I am much more pessimistic about TLGs role and position in this market segment. As it appears today, it might be reduced to a part producer and -supplier only. And a rather limited supplier to end consumers if you watch the life cycle of Lego parts available at LEGO Shop... Long live BrickLink ...

Edited March 27, 2018 by Haddock51

[Haddock51]

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎22 at 8:22 PM, sed6 said:

 but as I become more and more experienced at creating my own the desire to buy a complete train set lessens.

You are a typical example of what has been going on for years. To me, this is a very positive development which also goes back to the original purpose and ideas with Lego parts.

However, this also fundamentally changes the "playground" for TLG, particularly w.r.t. experienced MOCers and AFOLs, a growing and affluent segment. Sure, the desire to buy complete train sets risks to decrease over time unless there is a continuous flow of new ideas, innovations and sets that can match - or even better exceed - these customer's needs and expectations. Unfortunately, we haven't seen that much from TLG over the past years.

I still find it amazing that recent innovations in this field (and PF 2.0 to me is certainly not an innovation!) are emanating from 3rd party providers! Just take Fx Bricks as an example with their PFx Brick! Their slogan: "We take your Creations to the next Level" ! That sounds like music in my ears.

This is certainly a trend that will continue. I will  keep my eyes open for new innovations. Given their short term cashcow strategy, I don't expect to see any more of this kind of innovations from TLG in the future. The market leader role gradually but steadily seems to run out of TLGs hands... And eventually, this is what they already are planning for anyway ...

If you are "only " looking for new spectacular ideas w.r.t. trains or locomotives in Lego, you don't have to wait for TLG. There are many other sources - and creative minds! - with excellent skills, ideas and cases around the world. This forum  is a very good example of such a source - with a countless number of fabulous designers and MOCers!

 

PS: This probably goes beyond the scope of this thread. Thinking and speaking as a MOCer (and AFOL) , here are some suggestions about other interesting questions/topics in the wake of this thread: How will/could the Lego Train market with its various segments look like in 5 - 10 years? What kind of innovations for Lego trains can we expect? Who will be the key players in this market? How can you maximize the potential of modern digital technology to capitalize on and spread ideas, innovations etc. among Lego Train MOCers/AFOLs?

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Haddock51

[ElectroDiva]

8 minutes ago, Haddock51 said:

I still find it amazing that several of recent innovations in this field (and PF 2.0 to me is certainly not an innovation!) are emanating from 3rd party providers! Just take Fx Bricks as an example with their PFx Brick! Their slogan: "We take your Creations to the next Level"  That sounds like music in my ears.

You are right in the sense that Bluetooth is not an innovation when you consider 3rd party products, but there are still some attractive new features with PF 2.0

 

The parts that ship with the new train sets are expected to include a physical Bluetooth controller (so you do not have to rely on a smartphone for connectivity)

 

This is likely to have two implications if true:

1- better support for controlling multiple Bluetooth devices (as with the current IR based physical controller)

2-longevity (a physical controller will always have a longer lifespan than a smartphone app for which support can stop at any stage)

 

I also have some PfX bricks on order from their Kickstarter and really hope those guys can do a firmware update to support the new PF 2.0 physical Bluetooth controller - that to me would be a great combination.

[Johnny1360]

I actually will be getting at least the freight train set. 

For to long I have passed on Lego Trains, cost too much for what you get and takes up significant space are my reasons why, also not much in the way of expansion sets. 

Considering how much I like Lego and Trains it was bound to happen, with the release of PF-2, I figure now is as good of time as any to get started. 

Also sure there are others like me just starting out that think along the same lines. So yeah count me in. Do I think it's a must have set for everyone, not really. 

[Haddock51]

On ‎2018‎-‎03‎-‎25 at 1:57 PM, Duq said:

 they contain Lego parts I can use in MOCs

Different MOC schools: you build MOCs based on parts you have or you plan/design MOCs and buy the parts you need. Or you do both.

Even though I have a lot of space with my new Lego room, I don't want to use space and/or money for "good-to-have" parts. So I prefer the second MOC school.

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Haddock51

[Dav1d]

Quote

 

I will buy both trains but will probably modify them a bit. I will buy extra 'front bricks' to make a three car train (with sloping front & rear) and for the freight train I liked a wrong(?) leak of the loco with the front/back window 'upside down'. I'm still using 9V, but would like to see what they come up with.

I've been buying al the trains since 1985 and they have been a mixed bunch so I won't stop now. I would prefer them to be good designs and not too 'toyish'.