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When Should City be Cancelled?

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On 6/26/2019 at 11:49 AM, Aanchir said:

On this note, I think LEGO has helped to make the police and fire sets more exciting as of late by including other types of buildings and scenery to contextualize them — for instance:

  • the pier in 60213
  • the burger restaurant in 60214
  • the under-construction building and construction site in 60216
  • the monument in 60207
  • the tree and armored truck in 60175
  • the pontoon raft in 60176 (which reminds me fondly of my very FIRST System set, 6665)

True as it may be that nothing about these sets would compel me to get them even if I were still an avid City collector, there's something really heartwarming about knowing that kids buying these sets today are likely getting more out of them that will help them to flesh out their cities than they could have gotten from police or fire sets in my KFOL and TFOL years (1994–2009). In fact, even though the City theme launched as early as 2005, it wasn't until this type of cross-pollination began to occur in the police and fire themes that the City theme got its first bank, museum, bear, crocodile, hot air balloon, and mountain lion.

In fact, LEGO City police and fire sets supplied the City theme's first forest, wetland, and mountain areas in general, all three of which have been an intrinsic part of cities where I've lived or visited with family during my childhood. Even if they're not sets I'd necessarily seek out today, many of them are sets I can be certain I would've loved as a kid. And that makes it hard to have any sort of antipathy towards them.

Coast Guard sets have likewise become an extremely generous source for civilian boats, lighthouses, and other coastal scenery, animals, and civilian characters. Not only does this stronger presence of civilian characters and general subject matter in these themes make them feel less wholly redundant than if only the same few types of builds got repeated each time these subthemes were due for a new wave, but it also helps to emphasize the relationships that the emergency services have with the communities they're a part of which selling the same builds separately would not communicate in nearly the same way.

Oh yeah, I definitely like what they’ve been adding to the lines, just not enough to actually buy them because I don’t want or need another fire truck, like the Burger stand which I love. Years ago, that abandoned house that was on fire was another one. 

As a town lay out guy, I’d like to see a bigger spread of other businesses. In that regard I’m a bit tired seeing police/fire. I understand why & can appreciate them adding new stuff to those sets, like the aforementioned burger stand. I’m sure I’ll end up buying it.

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Well Im trowing my two bricks ... I was playing with bricks before the city theme was officially a theme yet.  I had a hospital, police station and fire station.  I even had the old coast guards .  But I had plenty of other buildings ... Resturaunts and houses and repair shops.  As I grew I expanded with newer buildings but only bought one more police station and one more fire station.  

The theme does not need retired but the umbrella is very large right now.  

Volcano, Mountain, Mining, all fall under "city" as a genre them selves they would not stand but add them to the city line and people buy them.

As long as they keep the City line diverse enough with other buildings I could care less if they put out 5 fire stations a year.

I mean after all I loved my "airport fire station" as it only served my airport just like the real world.

 

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Grin, no one here who grew up with the original town plan from the late fifties and sixties?

k4Lv2zI.jpg

Talk about change...

 

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1 hour ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

Volcano, Mountain, Mining, all fall under "city" as a genre them selves they would not stand but add them to the city line and people buy them.

I'm a little confused by the assumption that themes related to this sort of content couldn't stand on their own. I mean, Power Miners did well as a self-contained mining theme. Atlantis did well as a self-contained underwater theme. We've seen numerous self-contained Space themes, licensed and non-licensed alike.

And while I'm not sure we've had anything that could be called a self-contained Jungle, Volcano, Mountain, or Arctic theme (since most themes featuring those settings have a much broader premise than just their setting), we have seen those environments in all sorts of themes besides City, such as Adventurers, Alpha Team, Bionicle, Exo-Force, Agents, Power Miners, Ninjago, Friends, Elves, Nexo Knights, etc.

But at the same time, many of these themes with more of a fantasy flavor have been criticized even right here on Eurobricks because people feel frustrated about NOT being able to use them as part of their modern-day "LEGO cities" or "tabletowns". Power Miners was said to be too cartoonish, Atlantis was said to be too whimsical, Friends was said to be too "girly", Agents was too sci-fi heavy (boy, THAT was a one that riled a lot of people up, particularly since Eurobricks originally stuck it into the Town forum), etc.

 

And anyway, why would mining, mountains, or volcanoes not be a natural fit for the City theme on principle? Entire cities are BUILT because of volcanoes, mountains, forests, mining, swamps, etc, depending on what type of business opportunities wound up motivating large numbers of people to make their homes there. Volcanoes are a great place to find hot springs or fertile farmland. Mountains are a great place to find mineral resources (i.e. mining) or to serve travelers trying to cross mountain ranges. Forests were historically a land of plenty for the fur trading industry and the timber industry (which in turn provided for the shipbuilding, lumber, and paper industries). Swamps and wetlands frequently occur on river deltas, which make places in their vicinity fantastic hubs for traders and farmers hoping to transport their wares up and down the river.

While urban and suburban sprawl can sometimes result in these cities' populations driving away or destroying the natural environments that brought them there, that hardly means that the City theme is an unnatural fit for them, particularly considering how many of them are more or less just variations on the types of sets that already appear in other City subthemes.

Why have a bunch of totally separate themes like Swamp, Forest, Mountain, Sky, etc. when many of the sets included feature the same types of vehicles, the same target age, and the same play patterns — and when certain sets like trucks or cars with no scenery included would be equally relevant to every one of those locations?

Truthfully, the fact that "Sky Police" is one of the ones that has resulted in such fierce objections to City losing its sense of direction seems ESPECIALLY silly, since it's not as though cities aren't known to have skies!

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On 6/28/2019 at 12:28 PM, Aanchir said:

Why have a bunch of totally separate themes like Swamp, Forest, Mountain, Sky, etc. when many of the sets included feature the same types of vehicles, the same target age, and the same play patterns — and when certain sets like trucks or cars with no scenery included would be equally relevant to every one of those locations?

Why have them in separate subthemes under City when they can been all under the City Police subtheme? That's also a good question too. But noooooo! They have to be separate subthemes under City with 4 or more sets under the subtheme. They can't just do what they did with the two 2020 fire sets and just throw them out there subtheme free without a headquarters. 

Edited by Brandon Pea

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There is no Police theme, so they cannot go under Police. And if you look at the boxes, the police sets are not subthemed either. They are all just City. I don't think City has subthemes. You cannot filter based on subthemes on the website for example.

Many have the location in the title but that is not a subtheme. For example, a number are called things like Swamp Police Station. The "Swamp" in the name is just describing where the Police work. It is not a subtheme. This one came out at the same time as other "Swamp" sets but it is not called "Swamp Police Crooks' Hideout", it is just "Crooks' Hideout". There is no Swamp Police subtheme branding on it. There is no formal subtheme.

60068-1.png

Of course, people tend to lump together similar things that came out at similar times and so talk of subthemes. But these are all just City sets. Swamp Police sets can be played with alongside Sky Police sets and alongside standard Police sets and alongside all other City sets.

 

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@MAB Actually there are subthemes.

City's subthemes are similar to the way Creator does its thing: 3in1, Expert and Modular <<< though I think the last one goes into Creator Expert.

So for City, we currently have Police, Fire, Great Vehicles, Turbo Wheels and Space. Just to name a few. (I'm going according to what we have as of 2020). Those are subthemes.

Subthemes is just a saying that Lego and its fandom uses for the City theme (the theme itself) to organize the jobs that are showcased the most by groups. Standalone buildings, random vehicles, town planning sets and accessories don't get a subtheme and are sent into either Town or Great Vehicles. 

That's just how I see it. But it's ok if you don't see it that way. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree there. 

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IMO dropping the City theme is not what AFOL really want.  We would prefer a more adult/realistic theme of city type buildings, vehicles, etc. all at a similar scale as it own separate theme. Two city themes, one for the kids, the other for more mature builders.  Now this is something feel a lot of Lego enthusiast would get behind.  Again just my thoughts. 

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3 hours ago, LegoDW said:

IMO dropping the City theme is not what AFOL really want.  We would prefer a more adult/realistic theme of city type buildings, vehicles, etc. all at a similar scale as it own separate theme. Two city themes, one for the kids, the other for more mature builders.  Now this is something feel a lot of Lego enthusiast would get behind.  Again just my thoughts. 

Nah! City ain't leaving. So we AFOLs don't have nothing to worry about. 

I do agree with @MAB however. The idea in general of subthemes should be no more if they really do exist. 

I also agree with you that we would prefer more adult/realistic buildings. I guess that's why we've got modulars. 

But if Lego sincerely saw a market for this, and trust me - I believe it could work, allow me to explain. 

MY CITY!!!!!!!

I basically would do a spin off line of sets that are made by the same designers of City sets. Like Creator 3in1 and Creator Expert - comes City 5-12 and My City. City 5-12 would be the same version of City that we see today.

"My City" would be targeted to a more teenage audience. It would be much different than 3in1 and would be a step up from regular City and 3in1, but under the modulars. Buildings would be simple, but detailed like the 2019 fire station. This version of the "City" line would focus more on town planning than action - though vehicles would still be involved. It would be like the "My Own Train" line from the mid 2000s only with buildings. 

We'll still have City, but that'll be for the younger generation. 

But let's be realistic. That isn't going to happen. 

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I think it should be canceled right now. I mean the 2020 sets are some of the worst town sets since City Center is the late 90s. They are poop on the bottom of your shoes.

And then I think World City should make a come back. They can call it something different if LEGO likes but World City was slightly futuristic and that was a nice change.

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10 hours ago, Maple said:

I think it should be canceled right now. I mean the 2020 sets are some of the worst town sets since City Center is the late 90s. They are poop on the bottom of your shoes.

And then I think World City should make a come back. They can call it something different if LEGO likes but World City was slightly futuristic and that was a nice change.

Not the best offerings this year.  I might get the new street sweeper but not planning on anything else.  Let hope we get a good mid year wave release!

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29 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

Let hope we get a good mid year wave release!

Yo! I would be ecstatic if they added spring waves to the winter and summer. 

20 hours ago, MAB said:

Swamp Police sets can be played with alongside Sky Police sets and alongside standard Police sets

Btw, that's what I'm saying. So why not just put them as annual extras under one police theme? Like as in don't separate the police themes based on where the police work. That's frustrating. 

38 minutes ago, LegoDW said:

Not the best offerings this year.  I might get the new street sweeper but not planning on anything else.  

What about the new turbo wheels collection? 60255 to 60258 were some of the best City sets I've ever seen. As a worker in the auto industry, a subtheme focused solely on the automotive industry was something I've been calling for since the garage subtheme left the damn shelves before it's time.

Don't worry Lego. I'm not mad at you anymore for that. 

11 hours ago, Maple said:

And then I think World City should make a come back. They can call it something different if LEGO likes but World City was slightly futuristic and that was a nice change.

Uh....I'll pass. 

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Weird thread... two years old and still going.  Reading through I see some comments I agree with - I'd like to see more "adult" (detailed, I guess) versions of stuff.  I feel like the "adult" version is modulars, but they don't give the same kind of sets.  We get a bookstore and laundrymat before getting a police station or hospital.

I hadn't been paying a lot of attention, so I checked out the city sets at S@H (US).  It's what I remembered - these have a lot of play value, they are for kids, and kids like them.  There's little "realism" there.  They are also RIDICULOUSLY overpriced.  When people complain about SW the response is often "Disney Tax," but what's the excuse on City?

So I looked where I actually have bought before - the Creator 3-in-1 sets.  And there you go - several much more "realistic" sets that are actually reasonably priced, and because they're 3-in-1, with a number of sets you get a lot of possibilities.

But sure I'd like to see "adult" city stuff.  Modulars could be beefed up with some smaller sets throughout the year.

 

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@fred67 What do you think of my idea on My City? 

Its basically a spin off of City, but its centered more around town planning. Its a similar objective to classic town. 

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@Brandon Pea I was remiss in not discussing it - it sounds like a great offshoot; "City Advanced" maybe?  Just remember, though; if LEGO is doing something (or not doing something) and you're wondering why, the answer is always "because money."  They do what they think will sell the most.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, fred67 said:

They do what they think will sell the most.

I know police stations sell and all, but I do wonder how a couple of police sets with no station to accommodate them will do. They do something like that with those swat sets that came in 2013. They obviously did well or else the following year, 2014 wouldn't have had one of the biggest police waves in history. 

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On 1/17/2020 at 10:42 PM, Maple said:

I think it should be canceled right now. I mean the 2020 sets are some of the worst town sets since City Center is the late 90s. They are poop on the bottom of your shoes.

And then I think World City should make a come back. They can call it something different if LEGO likes but World City was slightly futuristic and that was a nice change.

While it may not appeal to you, I know that the Tuning Workshop and the rest of the automotive subtheme was pretty exciting to a number of other builders, myself included. 

To your second point, call the line what you will, but I think that regardless, Lego's "city-based" theme will be essentially the same as the current groups of sets we've been getting.  Heck, if you compare some of the early sets released as "City" from around 2005-2008, they fit in decently well with the World City stuff as it is.  As time goes on and the theme evolves, no matter what the name is, the sets start to look different from the City sets we got 3-5 years ago.  In all honesty, looking at those sets, the main differences that I can see is that they utilized more baseplates and had more "flagship" buildings (Train station, engine shed, coast guard HQ), rather than a set with multiple smaller buildings.  

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2 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

While it may not appeal to you, I know that the Tuning Workshop and the rest of the automotive subtheme was pretty exciting to a number of other builders, myself included. 

It appealed to me too. I work in the automotive field so thats why. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 3:36 PM, Brandon Pea said:

Btw, that's what I'm saying. So why not just put them as annual extras under one police theme? Like as in don't separate the police themes based on where the police work. That's frustrating. 

 

I don't get how they are separated. They are all labelled as LEGO City sets.

 

On 1/17/2020 at 8:07 PM, Brandon Pea said:

@MAB Actually there are subthemes

So for City, we currently have Police, Fire, Great Vehicles, Turbo Wheels and Space. Just to name a few. (I'm going according to what we have as of 2020). Those are subthemes.

Where do these subthemes come from though?

Take a look at one of the "Turbo Wheels" sets, 60255: https://www.lego.com/en-gb/product/stunt-team-60255

Nowhere on LEGO's web page is the term Turbo Wheels used. Lots of retailers (but not LEGO) use it in the title of the set, so this is presumably just a way of indicating where to put them on shelves. I cannot see anything on the box or official descriptions that indicates that they are a distinct subtheme though.

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@MAB It doesn't necessarily have to be on the box for it to be under a certain theme or subtheme. 

This is the police station that I knew as a child: 61jPNbjRIrL._SX569_.jpg

No where in the box does it say that its part of "Town Jr". But we label it as that and that's what Lego calls it. 

I'm going to say this to you and I pray to God that I don't have to say this to you again. Stop trying to "correct" someone all the time. It doesn't make you look smarter. I makes you look like a know it all. Also stop disregarding my statements just because I see things differently than you. That's very annoying. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 12:42 PM, Maple said:

I think it should be canceled right now. I mean the 2020 sets are some of the worst town sets since City Center is the late 90s. They are poop on the bottom of your shoes.

And then I think World City should make a come back. They can call it something different if LEGO likes but World City was slightly futuristic and that was a nice change.

Nostalgia really hits you doesn't it? Lets be real here. You, me, and those who are posting are feeling the same way, but I'm sorry. That description you post there was pure hatred. 

Cancelling Lego City right now would cause a disaster to the company. They did remake fire and police but its best for them to try something new to the same old theme rather than doing the same thing all over again. 

I think its time you find a way on how to make mocs. There is a community out there full of great creations. Instead of just hate posting from LEGO, which it won't impact them, why not make a city in your own personal matter. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AMD

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44 minutes ago, AMD said:

Cancelling Lego City right now would cause a disaster to the company. They did remake fire and police but its best for them to try something new to the same old theme rather than doing the same thing all over again. 

That is true. I agree with everything in this paragraph. 

46 minutes ago, AMD said:

I think its time you find a way on how to make mocs. There is a community out there full of great creations. Instead of just hate posting from LEGO, which it won't impact them, why not make a city in your own personal matter

I myself am actually working on a few MOCs. My next one is a gym. 

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4 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

@MAB It doesn't necessarily have to be on the box for it to be under a certain theme or subtheme. 

This is the police station that I knew as a child: 61jPNbjRIrL._SX569_.jpg

No where in the box does it say that its part of "Town Jr". But we label it as that and that's what Lego calls it. 

I'm going to say this to you and I pray to God that I don't have to say this to you again. Stop trying to "correct" someone all the time. It doesn't make you look smarter. I makes you look like a know it all. Also stop disregarding my statements just because I see things differently than you. That's very annoying. 

YOU label it, not LEGO. BL do the same, Brickset does the same. It is convenient to have labels for similar sets from different years.

It is the same with modern sets, there are no labels to say that Police is a separate subtheme from Fire, or that Mountain Police is a separate subtheme from Arctic. It is because one City set can be played with alongside another City set.

For example, what subtheme is set 60225?

Brickset files it under City > Space

BL files it under Town > City > Space Port

LEGO files it under City

 

If there is an officially defined sub-theme, then why do two different fan sites catalogue it in different ways, and different again to LEGO who do not classify it as anything other than City.

 

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@MAB I'm going to end this conversation by saying this. If you go on the site and click "about", you'll see the subthemes there. On the old official City webpage, including the last one, the sets were separated by subtheme. You must have been looking in the wrong place. 

I'll show you the link right now: https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/city/about

The whole website hasn't been updated so Turbo Wheels is not there yet. 

Edited by Brandon Pea

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From https://www.lego.com/en-us/themes/city/faq:

"

Why do LEGO® City have sub-themes and what are they?

LEGO® City strives to give children a building experience that exemplifies: “Real Action, Real Fun”. To correspond with the wide array of different experiences, buildings, vehicles, and people children will encounter, the LEGO® City sub-themes add and expand on the traditional LEGO brick-built city.

The current LEGO® City Subthemes are as follows:

Police (Sky Police, Mountain Police & Classic Police)

Fire Brigade

Great Vehicles

Trains

Arctic Expedition

Town

Mining Experts"

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