Will Lego ever return to an In-house Space Theme? We are going on 5+ years now...

[Retro]

13 hours ago, hagridshut said:

This does bring to mind one problem I have with Star Wars as the major space theme.  It is almost entirely centered on combat and warfare.  The single-mindedness of this gets boring, because there is so much more to space civilizations than incessant violence.

This is an interesting point.

I am very much not in favour of the fetishisation of war in real life, but somehow I never had a problem with war in Star Wars. I suppose because there was always plenty of humour and personal interaction mixed into the stories, and also the military were a bit hopeless (Stormtroopers can't shoot straight, Star Destroyers crash into each other and so on and so forth).

But that is perhaps one of the reasons why Rogue One is my least favourite Star Wars films, because it is tending towards just being a war film. And for me, Star Wars must always be leavened with Ewoks and Gungans and jokes to avoid going down that path to the (military) dark side...

[Captain Fortune]

I could'nt agree more with this thread. I've never been an Space fan, but I know very well the 90s sets and, hell, the supporters of the classic themes we are all on the sime side. 

I just checked some of the factions that you mentioned in the list. Some of them were so familiar to me, others not. Anyway, I realized how original and daring were some of them. A very beautiful and desirable theme indeed. 

On the other hand, I just don't understand a few comments that I've read on this thread. Absurd statements pretending to not understand what the author means with "In-house Space", by giving examples of what Space is NOT, or even denying the importance of the theme. 

About the future: it does'nt seem likely that an In-house Space wave will come in the short term. In the past, Space used to be the only sci-fi theme. Now, sci-fi is everywhere, in all themes. And, there is no need to say that again, but Star Wars is endlessly making movies, series and videogames. 

[Gomek]

On 9/18/2019 at 11:24 AM, Retro said:

This is an interesting point.

I am very much not in favour of the fetishisation of war in real life, but somehow I never had a problem with war in Star Wars. I suppose because there was always plenty of humour and personal interaction mixed into the stories, and also the military were a bit hopeless (Stormtroopers can't shoot straight, Star Destroyers crash into each other and so on and so forth).

But that is perhaps one of the reasons why Rogue One is my least favourite Star Wars films, because it is tending towards just being a war film. And for me, Star Wars must always be leavened with Ewoks and Gungans and jokes to avoid going down that path to the (military) dark side...

I'm somewhere in the middle. I like the vibe of Rouge One, but really hated the fact that no one lived and there was nothing to build on or feel good about.

On the other hand, I have a deep hatred anything episode 1 to 3, and Gungans were the most offensive thing in those movies. (Offensive in the sense they insulted the audience's sensibilities)

When Star Wars is at it's best, there is a sense impending doom, but also a feeling hope.

[MAB]

On 9/18/2019 at 4:01 PM, Lego David said:

Yeah, like maybe a new reamke of the Naboo Starfighter. I am sorry to say it, but Star Wars got to the point where there is absolutely nothing new to it, just reamkes of older sets which we have gotten 10 times by now. That is why we need a new original space theme so desperately. 

 

I don't know which one has been made 10 times. There are more than 10 Millennium Falcons, but they are so different in scale they do not count as remakes.

But then, I don't see the problem with remakes. People want an X-wing, a Millennium Falcon, etc. They want to be able to buy all the key characters in minifigure form. That is whether they were buying SW LEGO in the early 2000s, in 2010s or the future 2020s. LEGO will keep selling them as people want them. Should they remake, or just keep the same design on the shelves for 20 years? Personally, I prefer remakes, with updates with new building techniques and parts. If I feel a design is too close to what I already have, I don't buy it. There are plenty of other SW sets to buy, and even more non-SW sets I can buy.

[danth]

7 hours ago, MAB said:

But then, I don't see the problem with remakes. People want an X-wing, a Millennium Falcon, etc. They want to be able to buy all the key characters in minifigure form. That is whether they were buying SW LEGO in the early 2000s, in 2010s or the future 2020s

1) Can we get this for unlicensed Space themes?

2) It's literally the same designs decade after decade. Why is this needed? Why is Star Wars so popular 40 years after the first movies, 20 years after the god-awful prequels? Why don't people want something new and different? I find the need for 20 years of the same designs to be forced, and frankly, sad.  

[icm]

1) Do YOU really want a remake of the exact same Galaxy Explorer every three years?

2) Take that up with pop culture, not with Lego.

[danth]

6 hours ago, icm said:

1) Do YOU really want a remake of the exact same Galaxy Explorer every three years?

We wouldn't need to repeat ourselves. 

Look at the catalog of Space sets from 78 to 98. There's 20 years of wildly different Space designs in different color schemes. From Classic Space to Ice Planet to Insectoids. And there's nothing stopping them from doing something totally new in the spirit of old Space sets. 

Star Wars can't even hope to match that scope. And they can't do anything new either. Instead they just add a red stripe to a dated design and call it new. Super lame. 

[icm]

OK, just checking.  For a moment there I thought you were asking for the classic themes to repeat themselves every 3 years in the same way Star Wars does, in such a way as to get a refreshed Galaxy Explorer every few years, etc.  That sounded out of character for you.

[hagridshut]

I'd also point out that even with in the same Space "faction", like Space Police, the designs could vary wildly from refresh to refresh. 

Space Police II (1992) had a different design language than the original Space Police (1989), in terms of colors, uniforms, and jail cell architecture.  Space Police III (2009) was radically different in design from either of those. 

Blacktron is the other notable example where the refresh, which happened 4 years after the original, was almost entirely original.  Going from angular, black and trans-yellow ships and buildings to the trans-neon green and modular "globe" cockpit architecture, was a shocking change.  The white/neon logo minifigures in Blacktron II were also not nearly as mysterious or menacing as the original Blacktron minifigures with military-style flight gear and opaque black visors. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by hagridshut

[BrickJagger]

On 9/13/2019 at 12:32 PM, pooda said:

 I wish people would stop asking for an in-house space theme. 

...and I wish people would stop going into the Space forum to tell people that they shouldn't want more Space sets. 

[Darnok]

On 9/25/2019 at 2:31 AM, hagridshut said:

Blacktron is the other notable example where the refresh, which happened 4 years after the original, was almost entirely original.  Going from angular, black and trans-yellow ships and buildings to the trans-neon green and modular "globe" cockpit architecture, was a shocking change.  The white/neon logo minifigures in Blacktron II were also not nearly as mysterious or menacing as the original Blacktron minifigures with military-style flight gear and opaque black visors. 

I got into Lego Space with Blacktron II - which I only learned about as "Blacktron II" many years later, as for me it was just Blacktron at the time. While there is some obvious nostalgia going on, I still prefer the era II designs when it comes to the ships (the minifigs were much more bland in coparison). Of course the design change was massive - other than the name they kept nothing. So your point stands, and I agree that Lego would have almost unlimited freedom in terms of design for new or even remade space themes.

I just wish they would bring it on!

[MAB]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:24 PM, danth said:

2) It's literally the same designs decade after decade. Why is this needed? Why is Star Wars so popular 40 years after the first movies, 20 years after the god-awful prequels? Why don't people want something new and different? I find the need for 20 years of the same designs to be forced, and frankly, sad.  

It is because that is what people enjoy. Why do people still enjoy superheroes that were in cartoons in the 40s/50s/60s? Why do people still enjoy LEGO sets that were designed in the 1980s? SW has remained popular as people have passed it down to their kids. It is a highly nostalgic movie trilogy for kids born in the later 60s / early 70s. The "god-awful" prequels were enjoyed by a new generation early 2000s. I thought they were bad when I first saw them, but that is mainly as they were not the OT that I grew up with. I recently rewatched them with my kids, and they thought they were great.

If a kid watching the OT movies today wants a SW X-wing with Luke Skywalker, should he have to only have access to one made 20 years ago?

Of course, you might same the same about a LEGO theme. If a kid today wants a Blacktron set, should he only have access to one made 25 or so years ago? The difference is SW is still a popular franchise. Blacktron (or any retired theme) is just a toy from the past, most kids today will never have heard of it.

[danth]

11 hours ago, MAB said:

Of course, you might same the same about a LEGO theme. If a kid today wants a Blacktron set, should he only have access to one made 25 or so years ago?

Exactly!

11 hours ago, MAB said:

Blacktron (or any retired theme) is just a toy from the past, most kids today will never have heard of it.

But, just like SW, if they made Blacktron toys again, they'd be toys from now, and kids today will have heard of it. 

11 hours ago, MAB said:

The difference is SW is still a popular franchise.

True. But they still sell City sets, and Ninjago, and Friends, etc. If they made new Space sets, and marketed them, they'd probably be popular too. 

[hagridshut]

On 9/26/2019 at 5:19 AM, MAB said:

Of course, you might same the same about a LEGO theme. If a kid today wants a Blacktron set, should he only have access to one made 25 or so years ago? The difference is SW is still a popular franchise. Blacktron (or any retired theme) is just a toy from the past, most kids today will never have heard of it.

A question I have is whether a Lego theme needs to be based on a popular franchise in order to be successful and justify production. 

Ice Planet sets from 25 years ago are still magical to kids.  From personal observation, the trans-neon orange skis and chainsaws usually make them an instant hit, to the children today who have not known Lego much outside of Harry Potter and Star Wars.

Edited September 27, 2019 by hagridshut

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, hagridshut said:

Ice Planet sets from 25 years ago are still magical to kids.  From personal observation, the trans-neon orange skis and chainsaws usually make them an instant hit, to the children today who have not known Lego much outside of Harry Potter and Star Wars.

Even to adults, the color scheme is amazing.

Trans-Neon Orange is just an amazing color, I loved when they used it for flames and such as well.

Of course nowdays the regular trans-orange looks okay for like City-Fire sets or even the lava used in multiple theme.

But as far as space goes, the trans-orange canopy color of the Mars-Mission sets never had the same feeling to me as neon color from Ice Planet or Nexo Knights.

For me the color scheme of Nexo Knights with it's neon orange, reminded me a lot of Ice Planet, and certainly played a role in getting back into LEGO after 15 years

Trans Bright-Green and Trans Neon Yellow are just awesome as well when used in good contrast.

[MAB]

3 hours ago, hagridshut said:

Ice Planet sets from 25 years ago are still magical to kids.  From personal observation, the trans-neon orange skis and chainsaws usually make them an instant hit, to the children today who have not known Lego much outside of Harry Potter and Star Wars.

Trans neons, and in fact most plainer trans colours, seem to be a magnet for kids anyway.

3 hours ago, hagridshut said:

A question I have is whether a Lego theme needs to be based on a popular franchise in order to be successful and justify production.

No, but I think they need to "get it" (as in understand what it is about) quite quickly. Kids these days have so many toys and access to so much media, that if they don't understand something quickly they move on to something else. I may be generalising and I could well have been the same when I was a kid, but back in the 1970s/80s I didn't have anywhere near as many toys as my kids do now, and so I played with each of them more.

[Ronan54]

On 9/26/2019 at 5:19 AM, MAB said:

It is because that is what people enjoy. Why do people still enjoy superheroes that were in cartoons in the 40s/50s/60s? Why do people still enjoy LEGO sets that were designed in the 1980s? SW has remained popular as people have passed it down to their kids. It is a highly nostalgic movie trilogy for kids born in the later 60s / early 70s. The "god-awful" prequels were enjoyed by a new generation early 2000s. I thought they were bad when I first saw them, but that is mainly as they were not the OT that I grew up with. I recently rewatched them with my kids, and they thought they were great.

If a kid watching the OT movies today wants a SW X-wing with Luke Skywalker, should he have to only have access to one made 20 years ago?

Of course, you might same the same about a LEGO theme. If a kid today wants a Blacktron set, should he only have access to one made 25 or so years ago? The difference is SW is still a popular franchise. Blacktron (or any retired theme) is just a toy from the past, most kids today will never have heard of it.

I'd KILL for more SW sets based on the prequel and CW era, but let's be honest that's never gonna happen 

[hagridshut]

21 hours ago, MAB said:

Trans neons, and in fact most plainer trans colours, seem to be a magnet for kids anyway.

No, but I think they need to "get it" (as in understand what it is about) quite quickly. Kids these days have so many toys and access to so much media, that if they don't understand something quickly they move on to something else. I may be generalising and I could well have been the same when I was a kid, but back in the 1970s/80s I didn't have anywhere near as many toys as my kids do now, and so I played with each of them more.

Most of my childhood toys were from the mid-80's through the early 90's, or about 30 years ago.  

The main difference I see between then, and today, is not so much the number of toys on the market, but the availability of smartphones and tablets. 

Back in the 80's, there was already a seemingly infinite variety of physical toys, many of which survive in some form on store shelves today.  In the U.S., any Target or Walmart Superstore will have a good selection of Legos, other building toys, action figures & vehicles of various franchises, Barbie dolls, water guns, Nerf dart blasters, Nerf sports equipment, stuffed animals, video game consoles, board games, card games, toy cars/trucks/boats, and much more.  A Toys 'R Us store in 1989 would have featured a similar, or even greater, variety of physical toys and video games.  My family was not wealthy (I would say upper middle class professionals), but I was fortunate enough to have many different types of toys, most of which got a lot of use from myself, siblings, and neighborhood friends.

30 years ago, anything with a screen was far less portable than it is today.  A huge, heavy cathode-ray tube television usually had to stay put inside.  If some kids were playing outside with Nerf blasters, they couldn't quickly pull a bulky TV out of their pocket, or answer a text message, or decide to play a video game.  Today, many smart device owners are deluged by an unending sequence of alerts and prompts, and the portability of those smart devices means that those distractions follow them around.  

Going back to the Ice Planet example, I think kids do "get it" very quickly.  It is obvious that the Ice Planet theme is about exploration in arctic conditions.  The vast majority of kids in any country with winter conditions will instantly recognize the skis, insulated suits, and chainsaws (a necessity when ice storms cause trees to fall down and block roads).  Space Police = cops.  Blacktron = robbers.  

I don't think most Lego space themes are complicated.  Even themes that don't have an obvious meaning, like M:Tron, still get attention.  In 1990, nobody I knew cared what M:Tron was about (mining and engineering, from the U.S. marketing materials, rescue and engineering elsewhere).  The kids did think that the magnets were cool and that Trans-neon green glowed like magic in the sunlight.  

I believe that interesting designs and themes sell themselves.  I don't know if the marketing data supports that belief.  Lego Group would probably never publish its internal marketing studies, but I'd be very curious as to what the data says about sales of themed vs. non-themed product. 

[TeriXeri]

Tbh, the most recent set that comes closest to a more 90s look and feel is the 72003 Berserker Bomber set.

While Trans-Bright Green isn't very classic (Space Police 2 uses regular Trans-Green) , it's the contrast with the black and white that makes it a very Space-esque set, in design/colors at least.

It's a shame that was the last wave of the theme with only a few sets, but I wouldn't mind more sets using Black and Trans-Bright Green.

Overall, I would love a good non-licensed Spaceship set/theme using a lot of more traditional parts like angled plates, dishes, and slopes.

Edited September 28, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Darnok]

On 9/27/2019 at 10:20 PM, Ronan54 said:

I'd KILL for more SW sets based on the prequel and CW era, but let's be honest that's never gonna happen 

Why not? Lego does lots of sets from the original trilogy again and again, and there are currently six sets from the prequel/CW era in production (plus two microfighters). To me there is no reason to believe we will not get any more in the future.

 

12 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

Overall, I would love a good non-licensed Spaceship set/theme using a lot of more traditional parts like angled plates, dishes, and slopes.

You and me both, as well as a lot of people I think!

[Gomek]

On 9/28/2019 at 5:09 PM, TeriXeri said:

Tbh, the most recent set that comes closest to a more 90s look and feel is the 72003 Berserker Bomber set.

While Trans-Bright Green isn't very classic (Space Police 2 uses regular Trans-Green) , it's the contrast with the black and white that makes it a very Space-esque set, in design/colors at least.

It's a shame that was the last wave of the theme with only a few sets, but I wouldn't mind more sets using Black and Trans-Bright Green.

Overall, I would love a good non-licensed Spaceship set/theme using a lot of more traditional parts like angled plates, dishes, and slopes.

While I hate Nexo Knights, I let these guys (and girls) join Blacktron and hang out together. I wonder if someone pitched having Blacktron be the enemy on that last season and then got rejected for some sort of licensing issue. That would have been so much cooler. Oh well.