Are the mistika really that bad?

[arc]

Things have been pretty dry in here ever since the sudden cancellation of Bionicle's second run, so I thought I'd throw something out there, just to make things a little less dead if not anything else. Maybe it's a dead topic, but just some thoughts:

Ever since the end of G2, I've been collecting old G1 sets I missed out on, particularly with canisters (It's a life goal of mine to own 1 of every canister and display them on a wall, but that's a different topic). So I stumbled across a nice lot on eBay which had 10 canister sets of different types for a very reasonable price, so I jumped on it. 3 of them happened to Mistika sets. I didn't own many of those guys back in the day, as I was occupied with the new Star Wars Clone Wars sets at the time. I like to think I've matured since, but I bandwagon hated on these guys (and other things, don't look at my posts from 4-5 years ago please) for quite some time without really giving them a chance.

The lot contained Gorast, Bitil, and Gali. Having recently acquired the rest of the Toa and previously owning Krika, I now own a full set of Mistika, And honestly, I kinda like them. The Makuta, which I think most would agree fared better, are pretty great villain sets in my opinion. Each offers a bit of a different build and takes on a character of it's own. It's the Toa that seem to get a lot of hate, so lets talk about them.

Starting with Gali, I thought I would despise this set before cracking open the canister and building it. After I did, however, I'm quite happy with it. Does it resemble the original Gali? not really, but I don't think that disqualifies it from being a good set. There could definitely be some more blue, and the mask is, uhh, interesting. But these aren't fatal flaws in my eyes. My main issue comes from the lack of a secondary weapon, as the way the gun is held officially is pretty awkward. Placing it in a single hand, however, makes posing tons of fun in my view. I feel maybe a scythe or spear like weapon could have gone nicely here, but alas. Nothing a few spare parts can't fix though.

Onua is my favorite of the litter. The black and silver are balanced, and the red highlights go very nicely with the rest of the set. The other Toa probably could have benefited quite a bit from a little more color like that. Now I complained that having only one weapon was kinda lame with Gali, yet here I think it rocks. The way It's assembled with the black shield thing attached to the gun and the silver shield on Onua"s arm gives me a tanky vibe that I love. Think the heavy from team fortress 2. Not to mention the mask looks badass. all these things combined, and you've got yourself a great set.

Tahu Mistika I don't have many excuses for. I guess the mask sorta resembles the Hau with that front thing, but it's pretty ugly otherwise.  I'm just not a huge fan of this one. It doesn't pose well to me. The shield is a neat idea, but kinda clunky. I'm still kinda with the haters on this one.

These are all just my thoughts of course. By all means, share yours. Are the Mistika horrid abominations? Average sets suppressed by hate memes? or hidden gems?

[Takanuinuva]

The Toa yes Gali and Tahu didn't even have chest armor and Onua felt off being tall and lanky compared to his Mata and Nuva forms. Gali and Onua didn't even have Toa Tools and Tahu without some type of fire sword is just wrong. And the silver. There was way to much silver.

The Makuta on the other hand are fine. They had pretty cool unique designs compared to the similarly shaped Phantoka Makuta. 

[GarryTheMinifig]

Memory is a bit hazy, but weren't they (and the Phantoka) supposed to be the same characters as the 06-07 Toa initially? I always thought some of the design decisions made a bit more sense through that lense.

Edited February 8, 2018 by GarryTheMinifig

[VBBN]

In my opinion the problem really started with the Phantoka. They were updates of characters that had established Bionicle and that we did not have any new sets of since 2003, but they took majorly drastic changes from the 2001-2003 designs. I didn't mind the continuation of the Inika build (considering it made all of the characters feel more consistent from 2006 onwards) however the Phantoka came with many issues, such as an overabundant use of grey, odd color choices (all lime green for Lewa instead of bright green, orange for Pohatu) and their designs really didn't share a whole lot of the same aspects, other than a few easter eggs in the masks. Kopaka lost his shield and blade and instead only had a blaster, and Pohatu didn't even have hands. 

The Mistika took these problems and dialed them up to 11. They replaced grey with silver, and what was once their primary color became hardly even a secondary accent color- to add to that, Tahu was no longer bright red and Gali was no longer bright blue. Instead of one character from a team of Toa using only a blaster, we now added Gali and Onua, making three Toa in one team with only blasters. And while the Phantoka had masks that called back to the original designs, it was very clear that the design of the Mistika was in no way meant to evoke the original Nuva designs at all. Onua even lost his short stature.

As sets, were they awful? No. They might have relied on blasters way too much, but they brought us a different looking team of characters from the Inika/Mahri, shaking things up with a more dull color scheme (which would be reversed in 2009) But the largest drawback was that they carried the names of the Toa Nuva, and the Toa Nuva we remember - they were not.

 

 

[Aanchir]

Bionicle G1 was generally not very good at redesigning characters in a way that kept them looking familiar… the original Toa Nuva in 2002 arguably came closest to looking like their previous forms, and even then many of their masks were warped beyond recognition. LEGO didn't really get good at redesigning constraction characters in a way that made them decidedly recognizable until the 2012 Breakout series of Hero Factory.

In that respect, I don't feel like the Mistika Toa Nuva's diversions from the characters' previous designs were vastly worse than what we'd come to expect. I actually was rather fond of the way the Phantoka and Mistika made heavy use of neutral colors with brighter accents, although I would have probably preferred if the Mistika had continued the Phantoka's trend of using Dark Stone Grey armor with brighter primary colors instead of silver armor with darker primary colors. I did feel like the Mistika Toa Nuva's masks and weapons, while not the worst designs on their own, were a little worse at maintaining continuity with their past masks and weapons than the Phantoka's. I did like the characters' use of details like wings and jets, though it didn't feel quite as varied the Phantoka's means of propulsion.

The Mistika Makuta were nice and highly creative designs, and much more varied than the Phantoka Makuta — even though their insect-inspired designs and bright primary colors didn't radiate darkness and evil the way the bat-inspired designs and darker primary colors of the Phantoka Makuta did. It did kind of continue the parallel of blood in real-life animals being analogous to light in Bionicle characters, which kept things consistent even if in hindsight that parallel feels a bit obtuse.

Overall, many of the Mistika's faults were just demonstrating faults that could describe Bionicle G1 (especially that period of it) more broadly. The Glatorian the next year understandably came as a breath of fresh air with their brighter and more varied color schemes, more distinctive weapons, and more varied body proportions. In hindsight I don't remember the Mistika very fondly other than how much artwork they and other later Bionicle characters inspired me to create. Perhaps I might have remembered them more fondly if they hadn't come AFTER the Phantoka and thus had to live up to not only my expectations of the Toa Nuva, but also my expectations of how exactly that year's redesigns could be expected to go down.

[ZORK64]

I missed out on half of the Mistika sets (I got Onua and two of the Makuta, the green and yellow one IIRC), but my only real gripe with the Mistika were their canisters, which are frustratingly hard to open.

They were interesting in terms of design, though I do remember that I missed the fire motif on Tahu a bit.

[arc]

On 2/8/2018 at 8:47 AM, VBBN said:

the largest drawback was that they carried the names of the Toa Nuva, and the Toa Nuva we remember - they were not.

Fair point. Having jumped into Bionicle around 2006, these were my first introduction to the characters. So I guess that's not really something that bothered me, but I totally get how it would.

1 hour ago, ZORK64 said:

my only real gripe with the Mistika were their canisters, which are frustratingly hard to open.

They are kind of a pain in the megablocks if you don't have nails, I really like the design of the lid though (minus the lack of a way to get it off ). The mask being smooth on one side and cracked on the other was pretty neat.

[JoeyB]

As a kid, I personally loved the 2008 sets, including the Mistika. I had Tahu, Onua, Gorast, and Krika. I didn't realize how hated they were until a few years ago, when I watched some fan-sites video of the worst sets and saw people hating on the Mistika. Looking back... yeah, some of the designs weren't very true to the original appearances of the Toa, the silver is a bit much, and I would have liked to see more unique and fitting weapons, but... I can't say with any truth that I hate them. I have a lot of nostalgia for them, and I do like aspects of their designs. I think the insect-like Makuta were really cool, from Bitil's fly-like guise, to Krika's creepy Alien-mantis vibe, and Gorast's mosquito influences (I live in Louisiana, and the bugs are killer here). The Toa I like decidedly less so, but I still like things with them. I wish Onua was bulkier (could have swapped Gali's body build and fit better for a super-strong Toa of Earth) but I loved his mask, almost Kraahkan-esque. It's weird, but I always enjoyed them even though they're not amazing by any stretch of the imagination. Just my thoughts, you?

Edited February 16, 2018 by JoeyB

[Lord-Vorahk]

On 08/02/2018 at 2:44 PM, Aanchir said:

Bionicle G1 was generally not very good at redesigning characters in a way that kept them looking familiar… the original Toa Nuva in 2002 arguably came closest to looking like their previous forms, and even then many of their masks were warped beyond recognition. LEGO didn't really get good at redesigning constraction characters in a way that made them decidedly recognizable until the 2012 Breakout series of Hero Factory.

 

Prior to HF, there was a pretty solid internal reason why characters tended to change appearance so drastically between designs: Their masks. Very often, a transformed character would be wearing a different mask or a different form of their old one. Since masks were not the character's faces, but rather something that many characters could wear and use, and mass-produced within the setting.

While, from a character design standpoint, it makes the most sense to keep the character's face consistent, from an internal, story-focused perspective, it makes a lot less sense to have a set of different masks with different powers look so similar to each other. Would Jaller's Toa sets have been improved if their masks looked like a Hau? Probably. Would it have made sense for the Calix and Arthron to look like Haus? Nope. 

HF and later, G2, did away with the "mass-produced mask" concept, ironic, considering that the former were supposed to be mass-produced droids, and that allowed for more consistent "faces" between the characters' different forms. This, however, ended up making them less friendly to MOCing for me, personally. The standardized parts were great, even if I prefer the look I get out of G1 parts, but the masks and helmets being so tied to the character made things more difficult. I couldn't make a HF MOC without it looking like a new form of one of the existing characters, unless I wanted to slap a Glatorian helmet or finagle a G1 mask onto it, and my attempts at G2 MOCs often have the same result. 

 

That said, none of this excuses the Mistika's transgressions in this area, since they aren't supposed to be wearing new masks, and streamlined versions of their existing ones would've fit a lot better. Except Lewa. His Phantoka Mask is my favourite incarnation of the Miru.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Lord-Vorahk

[Aanchir]

6 hours ago, Lord-Vorahk said:

HF and later, G2, did away with the "mass-produced mask" concept, ironic, considering that the former were supposed to be mass-produced droids, and that allowed for more consistent "faces" between the characters' different forms. This, however, ended up making them less friendly to MOCing for me, personally. The standardized parts were great, even if I prefer the look I get out of G1 parts, but the masks and helmets being so tied to the character made things more difficult. I couldn't make a HF MOC without it looking like a new form of one of the existing characters, unless I wanted to slap a Glatorian helmet or finagle a G1 mask onto it, and my attempts at G2 MOCs often have the same result.

I wouldn't say this is as great a limitation as you make it out to be with Hero Factory/Bionicle G2. I've seen plenty of MOCs wearing Hero Factory and Bionicle G2 masks that don't resemble the characters they originate from, just as I've seen original characters wearing G1 masks that at first glance feel like "Oh hey it's a Jaller/Whenua/Kopaka revamp". Perhaps Bionicle G1 did a better job training people not to innately associate mask X with character X, at least in the early years when each mask came in a broad spectrum of colors, but making the character as a whole stand out has always been up to the creativity of the builder.

I also wouldn't say the less consistent character designs of G1 characters can be wholly justified by their masks being interchangeable. The Toa Metru are a standout example. Their masks were ostensibly supposed to be different forms of the ones they had as Turaga and as Toa Hordika, but the similarities were about as subtle as the similarities between the masks of the Toa Nuva and Phantoka/Mistika. The Toa Metru and Toa Hordika's color schemes and proportions also didn't particularly resemble the ones we'd previously associated with them as Turaga.

The Toa Nuva were better about keeping characters' proportions and color schemes reasonably consistent, but as far as masks went, the Akaku Nuva and Pakari Nuva more closely resembled the Hau in shape than the masks they were ostensibly based on. By comparison, even without factoring in color, it's generally a lot easier to look at the G2 Masks of Power and pinpoint which Toa Mata mask and which Unity Mask of Power relates to them. Especially for a media-driven theme, making sure character designs are recognizable is one of the basics of character design, unless their identity is supposed to be a secret from the viewer.

[bidiminished]

They had some of the worst price to part ratios but I think they were some of the coolest G1 canister sets. I particularly like Tahu, Gali, Krika and Gorest. Even if the toa have little resemblance to their old forms they still look good in their own right. I'd go as far as saying that they are a nicer looking evolution than the toa nuva. I thought the excessive use of silver, using dark red and blue for Tahu and Gali and the revamped mask style gave the toa a more serious, matured look to match how grave the story was at that time, since the story was coming to an end . The inika build and those fragile joints don't age very well though, and Onua could do with a melee weapon.

 

[Aanchir]

11 hours ago, bidiminished said:

They had some of the worst price to part ratios but I think they were some of the coolest G1 canister sets. I particularly like Tahu, Gali, Krika and Gorest. Even if the toa have little resemblance to their old forms they still look good in their own right. I'd go as far as saying that they are a nicer looking evolution than the toa nuva. I thought the excessive use of silver, using dark red and blue for Tahu and Gali and the revamped mask style gave the toa a more serious, matured look to match how grave the story was at that time, since the story was coming to an end . The inika build and those fragile joints don't age very well though, and Onua could do with a melee weapon.

I think "some of the worst price to part ratios" is an odd generalization to make. The Mistika Makuta certainly didn't have a very good price per piece (nor had the Phantoka Makuta before them), but the Mistika Toa Nuva had pretty good price per piece — better, certainly, than many Glatorian and Glatorian Legends, let alone the Vahki. Tahu in particular deserves special acclaim for having the second-highest piece count of any canister set (after Toa Mahri Kongu), which gave him a better price per piece than the original Toa Nuva, Bohrok, Toa Hordika, Visorak, Piraka, Toa Inika, and even most of the Toa Mata.

[The Outsider]

On 08/02/2018 at 2:44 PM, Aanchir said:

[...] the original Toa Nuva in 2002 arguably came closest to looking like their previous forms, and even then many of their masks were warped beyond recognition. [...]

... You do realize the arms, head and body of the Nuva were mostly the same as the Mata, right? It's easy to stay close to the original that way.

Frankly, by 2008 I was used to Toa teams looking different in each variation, and there was a passable in-universe explanation, so I didn't mind the Mistika looking nothing like the Mata/Nuva. In fact, I kinda looked forward to how different they would look like. Which is why, to me, they were disappointing in a different way:

They didn't take advantage of the swamp theme or the adaptive armor.

I admit, I'm not sure what a swamp-adapted armor would look like (though I imagine a cross between amphibious and jungle/forest, with breathing apparatuses and water propulsion systems mixed wih clear-cutting tools), but I think it would be more varied than miniature jets and wing-like "fins". Even worse, all of them shared this fin-and-jet combination, while the Phantoka had a different flight system for each character. Also, each Phantoka had its own weapon beside the launcher, even if Kopaka's was mostly an add-on; in the Mistika, Gali had an add-on which couldn't work as and independent tool, and Onua's was used mainly as extra armor, giving yet more emphasis to the launcher again. All in all, they look like a weaker version of the Phantoka to me, not a swamp team.

As for the masks, except for Gali (what were they thinking?!) I don't really mind. I do prefer Tahu's though, mostly because it looks more like a "traditional" mask and less high-tech than Onua's.

As for the Makuta, they were all the Toa were not: varied between themselves while fitting the swamp environment. My favorite was Krika, though that has more to do with the character than the toy itself (which is still pretty good). My only complaint was that they went the Hordika route instead of separating head and mask pieces, but that's just a personal preference rather than actual criticism (guess I prefer Bitil's mask in that regard...).

Regarding the canisters, after the nightmare that was the Mahri's I was just glad to have storage that would stay closed (I swear I'm still losing pieces as I speak...).

Edited March 5, 2018 by The Outsider
general grammar corrections

[bidiminished]

On 05/03/2018 at 1:55 AM, Aanchir said:

I think "some of the worst price to part ratios" is an odd generalization to make. The Mistika Makuta certainly didn't have a very good price per piece (nor had the Phantoka Makuta before them), but the Mistika Toa Nuva had pretty good price per piece — better, certainly, than many Glatorian and Glatorian Legends, let alone the Vahki. Tahu in particular deserves special acclaim for having the second-highest piece count of any canister set (after Toa Mahri Kongu), which gave him a better price per piece than the original Toa Nuva, Bohrok, Toa Hordika, Visorak, Piraka, Toa Inika, and even most of the Toa Mata.

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of the krika in particular who only has 40 pieces. I just assumed that the others had low piece counts too, probably because of how bare the mistika look - Tahu and Gali have unarmoured piraka torsos, Tahu and Onua are very lanky and all the makuta use av-matoran limbs/torsos rather than full inika builds. Not to say they look bad though; the mistika are probably my favourite wave of canister sets. The comment about them being overpriced is probably just a relative thing since the price was bumped from $15 AUD for the phantoka to $20 for the mistika where I live.

[Onepu the Protector]

As the characters we've come to love over the years? Yeah, they're pretty terrible. I've seen some people trying to justify the Mistika (and, by extension, the Phantoka) not looking like their past selves by pointing out that the Toa Nuva weren't a perfect representation of the Toa Mata either and while it's true to some extent, to be frank, they weren't nearly as bad in that regard as the Mistika. Tahu Nuva (to me, at least) is near-perfect as a buffed-up, more organic-looking evolution of Tahu Mata. Onua Nuva, despite his odd-looking mask and weird choice of weapon (I really think he should've kept his digging claws in addition to his new, chainsaw-like weapons - take a look at his Bionicle: The Game model to see what I mean), at least retained his unique physique. As for Gali Nuva - I love the way she looks in her own right but there's no getting around the fact that she (and Lewa) arguably changed the most out of all Toa Mata.
The problem with the Mistika is that they didn't even get those small details right and I don't believe the transition to the Inika build is to blame. For instance, Onua could've easily got a Matoro Mahri-like torso or a lower-set head (much like Gali Mistika, ironically enough) but he didn't.

But are the Mistika bad sets in their own right? I think they're pretty mediocre. Their colour schemes are dull and the reversed Piraka torso always ruins a set for me and the only fresh and good thing about them I can think of - Onua's chest plate - was utilised better on Mata Nui anyway 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Onepu the Protector

[Echo]

They masterfully demonstrated that there were some significant limitations to the Piraka/Inika body formula once it moved beyond the initial uses of those molds. In retrospect, I assume it was probably an early attempt at some type of CCBS system, but those torsos and limb parts largely worked best when they were used as originally intended as seen in the original Piraka and Inika. By 2008, not only was the format getting stale, but they seemed to have run out of ways to make it look different with the parts they had available leading to the spindly, oddly proportioned muddles that we got. (They turned it around a bit in 2009, but it was of course too late.) Of course, to me, a hardcore old school fan at the time, the utter lack of resemblance to the original characters of both the Phantoka and Mistika was utterly awful. I think what made it so bad to me when compared to the Inika was that the original Mata and Nuva designs and characters were iconic by that point and it just felt insulting to see those characters return and look totally nothing like those iconic original designs. 

[Onepu the Protector]

One the main things that bug me about the Inikapiraka build is that Lego tried to use it as some form of standarised building system, while in reality, it didn't even feel like it was designed with that goal in mind from the get-go. This often resulted in mismatched textures, seemingly random choices of limbs (Can anyone tell me what were they trying to achieve with this? Or this?) and all-around rummagy feeling. I'm not the biggest fan of CCBS (I liked it when it was new and fresh in 2011 but over the years, the novelty has worn off) but at least it has a sense of internal consistency.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Onepu the Protector

[Dorek]

People always give the so-called "Inika Build" a lot of crap, but they actually moved on from it pretty quickly; 2007 had a lot of diverse body types and structures even when using those pre-fab torsos.

But, to be fair, the Mistika Toa were much blander in terms of build than the Phantoka Toa before them (except for Onua Mistika, who I will absolutely defend as one of the most impeccably balanced sets of all BIONICLE) so I get the criticism in general.

[ZORK64]

I also think they did vary the "Inika Build" a lot in later years, and I always liked it, so it wasn't as bad for me.

While build-wise they were better, I have to say in terms of colors the Phantoka Toa were not as good-looking as the Mistika Toa (save for Kopaka, who basically kept his regular colors).

[Master_Data]

I bought all the Phantoka sans Chirox and the Titan sets. I loved them. I didn't get a single summer set.

I loved Krika, and he's still one of my favorite Makuta to date. I thought using a Vahki head as the back of Bitil's head was lazy and that Gorast as a whole was horrible.

In terms of the Toa, they weren't the Toa I grew to love from 2001-2003, but they weren't bad. They were just average. Well, except for Gali.

[arc]

17 hours ago, Master_Data said:

I thought using a Vahki head as the back of Bitil's head was lazy and that Gorast as a whole was horrible.

I thought it was an interesting use of a piece we haven't seen in a while, but that's just me. Gorast is probably my least favorite of the six Makuta that year, but that's not to say it's a bad set. The mosquito thing they were going was pulled off pretty well at least.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 11:23 PM, Dorek said:

(except for Onua Mistika, who I will absolutely defend as one of the most impeccably balanced sets of all BIONICLE)

Agreed. That set kicks megablocks.