42083 - Bugatti Chiron

[technicfan890]

Star Wars is the very extreme of licensing cost overhead for costumers, and is not okay at all. The other Technic models e.g., Arocs and the Volvo models, had a significant lower licensing overhead in terms of ct/part, also you'd have to consider that those models have quite cool motor/IR/pneumatics functions of which the Porsche and Bugatti have zero.

[SheldonF]

I understand that. But those vehicles have inherent functions that compliment the existence of technic. Besides an engine with pistons and a gear box, there's not much else you can ask for which is what I've been seeing a lot of. most of it has already been done. It's like the HOG steering, if you like it, cool. I personally don't like it and would never put it in. 

 

 The rear wing imo was a cool addition. I'm not saying I agree with the licensing tax ( for lack of a better term), I'm just saying that it shouldn't be a huge surprise to people. Of course it would be cheaper without. The thing is, I've bricklinked other MOCs of this scale and the prices fall much much higher than the bugatti, despite having 25-30% of the parts already. And those are used parts. There's no license cost and the amount of parts are actually less. 

[aol000xw]

How that suspension can pass any kind of QA is really worrisome.

For an AFOL it can be bothersome, but for a child it is even worse. What is the point of Technic when something so basic simply does not work?

I don't think children will grow into AFOLs from flawed designs; after all model kits are prettier than Lego. Back then for me it was the "how does this work?". But lately too many sets focus too much on the looks and too little in the functions. That may be good for today sales, but sure won't help tomorrow ones.

[JunkstyleGio]

2 hours ago, Jim said:

I just got a DHL message stating that a 6.6 kg LEGO package is on its way to my house. Finally I can see what it's all about 
(I have seen the model in Billund, but I haven't participated in the building session we had. I like to build it myself)

Mine sits fully packed in the warehouse... There seems to someone waiting (me?) for it to be sent out.

[mobi]

I think this Chiron is more complex than it should be. I feel Lego Technic has crossed the U-curve. More parts does not mean better model. The happiness does not become double if transmission is 8-speed compared to 4-speed.

Based on the reviews I watched so far, I don't think I have the patience to assemble the Chiron. On top of that, Chiron is not that much different from Porche 911. A 4WD Landrover would have been better.

[Lipko]

 

3 hours ago, SheldonF said:

I still dont understand certain issues people have with a car. It's a car. What "extra" functions can you even put?

 

I don't want extra functions. I want basic functions that... you know... [DON'T SWEAR]

No, seriously, from such a company, from such designers (who get money and all the time in the world), I'm expecting something better than a medicore model. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some of the basic things have to work at least a bit (steering and suspension are such things). I could have done it better.

Okay, I know that an AFOL is not the target customer for TLG, but is it really that hard to please them too at least with some minimal level of quality?

Edited June 4, 2018 by JopieK
Swearing

[Maaboo the Witch]

18 hours ago, Sariel said:

Speaking of which, I have a long video interview with Aurelien coming soon, too :)

Cool! Looking forward to that. 

[technic_addict]

They either are not talented enough to incorporate what many people are describing or they are unwilling.

I personally believe they intentionally leave room for improvement.  Most of my TLG Technic sets on display have some kind of a modification applied.

[Kumbbl]

20 minutes ago, Lipko said:

 

I don't want extra functions. I want basic functions that... you know... GODDAM WORK!!!!
No, seriously, from such a company, from such designers (who get money and all the time in the world), I'm expecting something better than a medicore model. It doesn't have to be perfect, but some of the basic things have to work at least a bit (steering and suspension are such things). I could have done it better.

Okay, I know that an AFOL is not the target customer for TLG, but is it really that hard to please them too at least with some minimal level of quality?

it's even the other way around: The target group for that incarnation of the Chiron can only be adult fans of that real car which are proud to put it onto the shelf or their job desk... most of the children who get THIS chiron as a present for example will BE very disappointed because this thing can actually (in its final state) nothing more than looking awesome (i admit it looks awesome) - so if the target group are really children then the set is a non-starter... I can imagine only two groups of people who can be happy with this set: adults who just want to build once and then display and childs/adulds who want and are able to MOD the model so that it becomes play- and useable...

as already said: a supercar with a non working suspension and with a non accessible steering-wheel and a very hard accessible gear-selector IS useless - and it is not so hard to design a HoG which is removable or so cleverly hidden that it does not pollute the exterior of a car... "HoG" for gear switching without polluting the looks is not so easy i have to admit - so this would be an acceptable compromise if the geear-switching mechanism is not really easy accessible... but reasonable accessible steering and a working suspensions are MUSTs and should never pass the internal QA if they fail... otherwise it would be in fact better to make a model team model with perfect lines and an admitted display-focus...

Edited June 4, 2018 by Kumbbl

[Jim]

50 minutes ago, JunkstyleGio said:

Mine sits fully packed in the warehouse... There seems to someone waiting (me?) for it to be sent out.

I hope you will get yours soon!

[blondasek]

Jim, I really hope that your review will be honest and cruel. That's a shame that this model has such a big flaw.

[Jim]

2 minutes ago, blondasek said:

Jim, I really hope that your review will be honest and cruel. That's a shame that this model has such a big flaw.

I will be honest, but I am never cruel 

But I will make sure to take a good look and do some prelim testing during the build.

[allanp]

Ok well regarding price, price per piece is not, and has never been, a good way to estimate price. While there is SOME correlation, there is also far too many outliers to say that it's entirely accurate. A far more accurate way to judge price is price per unit of weight. When this is plotted on a graph the correlation is MUCH stronger with hardly any outliers regardless of whatever licensing there may be, if any. And it appears the Bugatti is a very heavy set, combined with the many new part moulds that had to be created for this set then the price really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. 

Regarding not being able to see the functions, did he not see the build while he was building it? Was he blind folded? He built the darned thing so how can it not know what goes on inside it without having to see it? 

Regarding it not being technic, this set has a working paddle shift 8 speed gearbox shifted via an all new cylindrical cam shifter to bring Lego sequencial gear shift mechanisms one step closer to reality, some kind of W16 engine (more on that later), all wheel drive, working steering with working steering wheel, all round independent suspension and dual action rear wing working from a single input, all of which could be seen and tested perfectly well during the build. So we have all the major functions of the real car plus new parts to bring the mechanics closer to reality, what else was he expecting? A working speedometer? LAZORS?!

Regarding the execution of the W16 engine, to do it accurately would require new parts to be moulded just for this one set with zero chance of being useful to improve future sets (unlike longer pneumatics or the cylindrical cam shifter) so it's not reasonable to expect TLG to do so. This means we get what we have or a style of engine that's similar to the Mack truck, which would be even more inaccurate with no con rods, pistons that are too small, pistons that stick out the end of the bore and that aren't connected in anyway to the crank shaft, which isn't even a crank shaft because it's a cam shaft! That's 5 in accuracies compared to the Chiron's one inaccuracy of having 3 crank shafts.

Regarding stickers, I personally prefer stickers, especially on parts that only come in that set. With a sticker you have the choice of having the stickers design on that piece or not. Printing that design removes that option, and as Lego is supposed to be about giving you options to rebuild things into anything you want, and technic is supposed to not be all about the look, ide say stickers are therefore superior to printed pieces.

No set is perfect, there are things that can be improved, there are things I would have done different, but sometimes it appears that if something isn't quite 10 out of 10 then it must be a zero. And remember that old saying, you can polish a turd but it's still a turd? That's why when a poor set comes out you don't see much activity in their respective mod threads, mod it all you want it'll still be based on a poor set. Good sets like the arocs and the BWE tend to have much more activity in their respective mod threads, because it has enough appeal and interest to begin with to warrant spending the time to make it better. The Chiron has a lot of activity in its mod thread even before most people had received one! 

Sorry for the long rant, but although I can level plenty of criticism myself at a set I think is poor, it's only really fair to do that if I'm also going to praise and even defend something when I think it's good.

 

 

[AVCampos]

7 minutes ago, allanp said:

the Bugatti is a very heavy set

2.8 Kg if I remember correctly.

8 minutes ago, allanp said:

what else was he expecting? A working speedometer?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=3246

[allanp]

I forgot about that speedo, I even have one! And I also made a working analogue Speedo and rev counter (basically the same thing) using a motor from the barcode truck in reverse as a generator creating electricity to power a second barcode truck motor connected to a rubber band, it works really well so probably not a great example .

[Erik Leppen]

3 hours ago, SheldonF said:

I still dont understand certain issues people have with a car. It's a car. What "extra" functions can you even put?

• HOG for steering
• Operation of the wing from the cabin
• Some kind of brake system (that would have been cool!)
• Doors that open/close with an interesting mechanism, such as 42069, or, preferably, reintroducing the transparent damped spring cylinder and using that for the doors

And if we are talking cars in general, instead of particularly this Chiron:

• Suspension ride height adjustment
• Rear wheel steering
• Rear wheel steering dependent on the selected gear
• Wing angle dependent on the selected gear
• Folding roof
• Adjustable seats
• Scissor doors, wing doors or any other interesting type of doors

As you see, there is a total abundance of possible functions for a car. More than one has room for. So from a technical standpoint, there's no excuse for a lack of functions. Compare to 8070, which has no gearbox, but, at 1300 parts, has many other interesting functions to compensate.

As it stands, the Chiron focused on the elaborate gearbox, which I think is absolutely marvellous. It's superb to see such an intricate gearbox in an official set, whose gear ratio ratios all seem to be quite sensible and similar to how AFOLs would do things. However (yes, there's a but), this set seems to have stopped innovating when the gearbox was done, which is kind of a shame. Maybe that's how TLC wants to do things - one breakthrough at a time. This whole gearbox thing seems to be done now. It's not going to get much better than this, probably. Now, for the next supercar (2020?) please try something else. A brake system, for example. Or cool scissor doors. (Please do a Koenigsegg. :P) Or gear-dependent rear-wheel steering.

And, there's no excuse for the sloppy front suspension. It looks rushed - it sags and it doesn't seem to use the whole range of the spring.

I do somewhat agree that it's not "really" Technic. (Yes, it's Technic, but at 40% of the build, all major functions are done. The rest is bodywork and some small moving bits) And if it's not really Technic, why is it even Technic? I'd really like to see more out of their line of Creator cars, next to the Ferrari F40 and Caterham sets. Not just Minis and Beetles, however interesting and iconic they are, but cars out of the Speed Champions series, but increased to the scale of the F40/Caterham. And actually, I would personally expect non-Lego fans - petrolheads - to prefer a brick-built set over the paneled Technic-y look of the Chiron - the F40 looks more Lego-like to a non-Lego-fan. As a bonus, they're much smaller sets, which means people can buy more sets before their shelf space is full.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Erik Leppen

[SheldonF]

3 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

 

As for the second point...we aren't talking about cars in general however. This is specific car which TLG I'm sure had to remove features, do things differently because they had to answer to another partner who has stake in this. We wouldn't be Technic fans if Lego didn't have the innovative sets they've been known to put out. The non licensed supercars get more praise because they can do whatever the hell they want. This isn't the case here. Rear wheel steering was figured out by Uwe in the Porsche however Porsche didn't want it in the set for whatever reason. I'm sure there are other functions that were taken out. 

My only point is that a lot of people have different wishlist's and I think it's not justifiable to expect everyone's. It isn't flawless but the ones who are saying it's a bad set ( which I have seen) don't understand logistics. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Milan
Removed quoted block of text.

[Musikfreak]

 I find it funny that the reaction to the Lego Chiron is similar to real supercars: They are too expensive, they are not functional/practical cars, they look too extreme. They are bad because this or that piece is wobbly and so on and so on.

Regarding the german video: Rants on brand new products (especially expensive ones) go really well on youtube. If you put in a catchy clickbait title it's even better. So why not do it to enlarge ones audience. He also rants of a few other sets and I think it's just his style. Although I think it is authentic.

However, I personally really like these new models. Just gears and styling and no PF. It's a good counterpart to something like a BWE. And even when I was a kid I mostly admired the gears and and suspension in the 8865. I did not have to see it working or drive the car around but was just fascinated by how it was implemented.

Is the Chiron perfect? Certainly not. Is it an impressive Lego model? In my eyes for sure. Is it too expensive? Maybe.

But whatever you think of it: It's still just an "offer" from TLG to everyone as an audience. Everyone can decide if they take TLG up on that offer and buy it or decide it's not for them (either because of technical limitations or because of the price).

Edited June 4, 2018 by Musikfreak

[rener]

 

17 minutes ago, windowP said:

okay. So, Chiron is about 2.8kg at 370€. BWE is 5.6kg at what, around half of the Chiron price? Including power functions. What exactly should this measure show?

When quoting a lengthy post with the purpose of asking critical/rhetorical questions, you'd better get your facts right. The box weighs around 6 kg, as mentioned in the Brickset review. Heavier than 42055, by a bit...

[Lipko]

The last dissuading thing is that the build seems messy. It seems that the +900 pieces is the result of the non optimized build.

No more rant from me about this set.

Edited June 4, 2018 by Lipko

[Anio]

Regarding Lego brakes :

It took 24 years to go from regular driving rings to the brand new "orange wave driving ring".

So I think we are very, very, very far from having a Lego Technic supercar where an axle has transmission + steering + suspension + brakes...

You can quote. :o

[Aleh]

Found incredible W16 

 

[AVCampos]

How big would a car have to be to be in scale with that engine?

[nerdsforprez]

2 hours ago, Musikfreak said:

 I find it funny that the reaction to the Lego Chiron is similar to real supercars: They are too expensive, they are not functional/practical cars, they look too extreme. They are bad because this or that piece is wobbly and so on and so on.

Regarding the german video: Rants on brand new products (especially expensive ones) go really well on youtube. If you put in a catchy clickbait title it's even better. So why not do it to enlarge ones audience. He also rants of a few other sets and I think it's just his style. Although I think it is authentic.

However, I personally really like these new models. Just gears and styling and no PF. It's a good counterpart to something like a BWE. And even when I was a kid I mostly admired the gears and and suspension in the 8865. I did not have to see it working or drive the car around but was just fascinated by how it was implemented.

Is the Chiron perfect? Certainly not. Is it an impressive Lego model? In my eyes for sure. Is it too expensive? Maybe.

But whatever you think of it: It's still just an "offer" from TLG to everyone as an audience. Everyone can decide if they take TLG up on that offer and buy it or decide it's not for them (either because of technical limitations or because of the price).

Really great observations.  I really appreciate the comparison of the latest Lego supercars to real supercars. 

I am still entertained with the amount of complaints we get of official Lego sets that view the sets as  static entities.  Though there are some, they are relatively few; comments about part packs, possibilities, etc.  I can't believe that we have AFOLs purchasing sets viewing them from their static disposition, rather than their possibilities. Some complain and complain..... others get to work fixing and revamping....

Just like the Porsche, in no time, with just a few modifications I am sure we will have an enviable set.  If nothing else an incredible parts pack for some cool MOCs that are bound to be released.    For those that followed the Porsche-hype train, the additional part packs that led the 42056 to respectability was very small.  Perhaps detractors might say, "well for XXX dollars it should come out perfect!" - again, I don't understand that logic.  "Perfect" right out of the box Lego set?  Almost sounds like an oxymoron.  Lego is soooo much more than just something to assemble.  Assembly versus building are two very important distinctions here.  Almost like buying a Jeep and leaving it stock for its whole lifespan.  Nearly no one does it.  And if one does..... most in the crawling community looks at them as if they are martians from outer space or something......

 

[sm1995]

I don't really get the backlash for this model. What more functions do you want from a supercar? Adjustable suspension is pretty much all I can think of but trust me, it's difficult to cram in adjustable suspension into a supercar due to dimensional constraints. It took me weeks to incorporate a reliable enough system into my McLaren MOC. 

The real irony is, 8880 is hailed as one of the greatest sets ever, when in reality it had the same functions as the Chiron, except for the RWS. 1343 pieces for $130 in 1994, which translates to $220 in 2018 after inflation adjustment; approx 6 bricks/$ vs 10 bricks/$ for the Chiron. Now I know this is a trivial comparison, but I just wanted to put it into perspective to those who see the past with rose tinted glasses. 

Bottom line is, it's not perfect. I don't think any lego set will ever be, but I think it's pretty damn awesome for what it is. TLG Supercars have always demanded a premium over the years, I'm not really surprised that this one does too. 

just my 2 cents.