42083 - Bugatti Chiron

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

Yes, I think you're right. I think the gearboxes are so-to-say, "in series"; in that drive goes through the first gearbox (1 driving ring; 2 speeds), and then through the second gearbox (2 driving rings; 4 speeds). What I speculate, is the following:

• Orange selector 1 drives driving rear A and B. These are coupled and at 90 degree offset, so exactly one of A and B is engaged; the other is neutral.
• Orange selector 2 drives driving ring C. This one will always need to be engaged to have a link between engine and wheels. if C is neutral, the car is in gear N.

Driving ring C is only switched between gears 4 and 5. This results in the following possible combinations:

• A left; B neutral; C left - gear 1
• A neutral; B left; C left - gear 2
• A right; B neutral; C left - gear 3
• A neutral; B right; C left - gear 4
• A left; B neutral; C right - gear 5
• A neutral; B left; C right - gear 6
• A right; B neutral; C right - gear 7
• A neutral; B right; C right - gear 8

That's how I think things will work. It could of course be that C is the least-signiticant bit instead of the most-significant bit, but this, I think, is the principle. Hopefully, one of these 8 gears will be the reverse. How this would work, I have no idea. But there are people much more acquainted with gearboxes than I am, so maybe someone else could speculate on that.

This is, of course, given the speculation that there are 3 driving rings. Maybe there's a fourth, to handle the Forward/Neutral/Reverse switching.

I will map your analysis on the available images tomorrow and see if I can confirm. Btw, after looking at the instructions on one of the images, I think there is a 4th driving ring underneath the second orange selector. It seems there is a yellow piece at one end of it. Maybe a yellow driving ring extender? That would indicate a reverse.

EDIT: Just realized one more thing, to switch between C left and C right, the orange selector would have to make a 180 degree rotation.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Didumos69

[Pvdb]

57 minutes ago, LvdH said:

That would be very cool and quite likely. Jeroen's Aston Martin DB11 has something like that too, and it's definitely something I hadn't seen before.

It is not that difficult to include a reverse gear without the need for forward/neutral/reverse switching as in 

 but it is much more difficult to get sensible ratios between the different gears.  I am looking forward to the new parts and maybe will put my current project on hold for a week!!

[Meatman]

12 minutes ago, Pvdb said:

It is not that difficult to include a reverse gear without the need for forward/neutral/reverse switching as in 

 but it is much more difficult to get sensible ratios between the different gears.  I am looking forward to the new parts and maybe will put my current project on hold for a week!!

True. But most cars that have sequential transmissions don't have reverse included in their gears. You can't expect someone to shift through 7 gears to get to reverse. It makes more sense have a selectable lever in the middle like most cars do. What we don't want to see is when the car is in reverse that it has 7 reverse speeds. I have a feeling that Lego learned from that mistake with the Porsche.

22 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I will map your analysis on the available images tomorrow and see if I can confirm. Btw, after looking at the instructions on one of the images, I think there is a 4th driving ring underneath the second orange selector. It seems there is a yellow piece at one end of it. Maybe a yellow driving ring extender? That would indicate a reverse.

Why would that indicate reverse? Maybe that is a new driving extension that does something that the old one does not? It looks thicker width wise than the older style.

1 hour ago, LvdH said:

That would be very cool and quite likely. Jeroen's Aston Martin DB11 has something like that too, and it's definitely something I hadn't seen before.

Paul did that in this model too. I think both guys also pulled it off in a completely different ways.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Meatman

[Bublehead]

Just talked to my Lego Store, they do not have a waiting list. It will be first come, first serve this Friday, and to quote him, “unless 100 people show up, we will have enough for everybody waiting in line”. They currently have them in the back, they expect another shipment Thursday. So looks like I know where I will be Friday morning.

[JTS]

1 hour ago, Bublehead said:

As far as naming goes I like White slip gear instead of white clutch gear. That’s my vote because those darn things just slip when they want to. Gears with driving ring interfaces should be called clutch gears, unless they are a diff, then it would be differential w/ clutch interface. Just my $0.02

As the gears all come in their own unique colour (+1 for colour vomit ) we can just to refer to them that way

Grey clutch gear = old 16z

Red clutch gear = new 16z

Blue clutch gear = 20z bevel

White clutch gear = 24z with grey centre

[Pvdb]

24 minutes ago, Meatman said:

You can't expect someone to shift through 7 gears to get to reverse

But surely when you finish using reverse, then the next gear that you use will be first.  How is that going to work?

[Erik Leppen]

2 hours ago, Bublehead said:

As far as naming goes I like White slip gear instead of white clutch gear.

Maybe we should call idler gears the same as techlug.fr calls them in their reviews: "roues folles" in French, or, in English "crazy wheels" 

Sorry, was not on topic.

2 hours ago, thatrabidhobo said:

I hate asking this, but, I’m not understanding the significance of the new blue gear. Is their an explanation for us newbies?

It works the same as the 16t red gear - it has a round hole and little ridges on the inside that can be engaged by driving rings.

What's interesting is that for the first time since set 8880, we have two different sized gears that can engagae with driving rings. That means that for the first time, you can create two different gear ratios using only two axles - the axle holding the driving ring holds the 16t and 20t idlers, and the other axle holds for example a 16t that meshes with the red 16t, and a 12t that meshes with the blue 20t. Then, switching the driving ring either way changes the speed of the second axle - without needing a third set of gears.

Edit: here's what I mean:

Edited May 29, 2018 by Erik Leppen

[Didumos69]

15 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

Maybe we should call idler gears the same as techlug.fr calls them in their reviews: "roues folles" in French, or, in English "crazy wheels" 

Sorry, was not on topic.

It works the same as the 16t red gear - it has a round hole and little ridges on the inside that can be engaged by driving rings.

What's interesting is that for the first time since set 8880, we have two different sized gears that can engagae with driving rings. That means that for the first time, you can create two different gear ratios using only two axles - the axle holding the driving ring holds the 16t and 20t idlers, and the other axle holds for example a 16t that meshes with the red 16t, and a 12t that meshes with the blue 20t. Then, switching the driving ring either way changes the speed of the second axle - without needing a third set of gears.

Edit: here's what I mean:

 To add to this, here's a compact sequential 4-speed gearbox layout and so far this is the most simple solution I could come up with. It's still not that easy, because to use the new orange selector, the driving rings cannot be placed on opposite sides of the gear selector.

To take full advantage of the new 20t clutch gears, the gear ratio between the two driving rings needs to be closer to 1:1 than the 20:12 ratio made by the new clutch gears. In this case I used 16:20. Ratios are: 4:5, 1:1, 4:3, 5:3.

• Green is input
• Yellow is control
• Red is output

Edited May 29, 2018 by Didumos69

[therealjustin]

For some reason I had just assumed the rims were black with silver printing this entire time, but it seems that they are actually dark blue. A nice touch 

Edited May 29, 2018 by therealjustin

[Limga]

19 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

What's interesting is that for the first time since set 8880, we have two different sized gears that can engagae with driving rings. That means that for the first time, you can create two different gear ratios using only two axles - the axle holding the driving ring holds the 16t and 20t idlers, and the other axle holds for example a 16t that meshes with the red 16t, and a 12t that meshes with the blue 20t. Then, switching the driving ring either way changes the speed of the second axle - without needing a third set of gears.

Edit: here's what I mean:

 

Well, we do have an old-style differential gear with 24t and 16t gears, that can engage with driving rings too. However, it isn't simple to install and gearbox is much bulkier that with new 20t clutch. 

[Erik Leppen]

3 minutes ago, therealjustin said:

For some reason I had just assumed the rims were black with silver printing this entire time, but it seems that they are actually dark blue. A nice touch 

Actually -- I thought for a moment they were sand blue.

[bekesizoltan]

I'm wondering about the size of the tires. I thought that the Porsche has too wide tires and it would be hard to build another car with those tires and rims.

Edited May 29, 2018 by bekesizoltan
typo

[Omikron]

Are blue gears - new clutch gears?

[thatrabidhobo]

Thank you, Erik, with your visual it makes total sense to me now.

Sariel might need to come out with a new edition to his book... Maybe he can find a way to have whomever buys a hardcopy will also have access to all future digital editions.  

[valenciaeric]

Spoiler

 

So, the brake discs are moulded into the new hub and snap into the existing holder.

Seems you get 2 manuals, 4 blue clutch gears and 2 orange worm gears plus one old style white clutch. That should help work out how many gears it has.

Confirmed 4x4 with no central diff too and no power functions.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by valenciaeric

[zux]

1 minute ago, valenciaeric said:

So, the brake discs are moulded into the new hub

Brake discs are standalone pieces. Yes, these are shown to be part of wheels/rim on boxed picture, but then middle of assembly shows they are not attached to them.

[valenciaeric]

18 minutes ago, bekesizoltan said:

I'm wondering about the size of the tires. I thought that the Porsche has too wide tires and it would be hard to build another car with those tires and rims.

Same tyres as on the 911.

17 minutes ago, Omikron said:

Are blue gears - new clutch gears?

Yes, the pin hole is not crossed but for standar friction or frictionless pins.

3 minutes ago, zux said:

Brake discs are standalone pieces. Yes, these are shown to be part of wheels/rim on boxed picture, but then middle of assembly shows they are not attached to them.

That´s what I meant. The disc is part of the grey snap on part of the hub.

[Omikron]

Just now, valenciaeric said:

Same tyres as on the 911.

Yes, the pin hole is not crossed but for standar friction or frictionless pins.

I meant - can a driving ring go inside of that thing?

[valenciaeric]

2 minutes ago, Omikron said:

I meant - can a driving ring go inside of that thing?

Seems so. You get 11 red ones and 5 new style driving rings plus 3 blue ones.

[Omikron]

Just now, valenciaeric said:

Seems so. You get 11 red ones and 5 new style driving rings plus 3 blue ones.

WAIT! The driving rings are also new? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?      

[valenciaeric]

No, new style since they introduced them 3 years ago!

Also seems the rear light panels are new moulded parts.

Edited May 29, 2018 by valenciaeric

[Kumbbl]

20 minutes ago, valenciaeric said:

Seems so. You get 11 red ones and 5 new style driving rings plus 3 blue ones.

Wait- 5 driving rings - but only 4 seems to be used within the gearbox.... so we get an additional foreward/neutral/Reverse selector as with the Porsche? Hopefully now not with 8 reverse gears ;)

4x4 is cool...

So but overall the bugatti seems to be at least one level above the Porsche.....

Edited May 29, 2018 by Kumbbl

[Omikron]

Just now, Kumbbl said:

now not with 8 reverse gears ;)

That is a patented ww2 French design I believe

Edited May 29, 2018 by Omikron

[valenciaeric]

40 minutes ago, Kumbbl said:

Wait- 5 driving rings - nur only 4 seems to be used within the gearbox.... so we get an additional foreward/neutral/Reverse selector as with the Porsche? Hopefully now not with 8 reverse gears ;)

4x4 is cool...

So but overall the bugatti seems to be at least one level above the Porsche.....

I assume the fifth one is in the cockpit under the gear selector. Still can´t work out how the up and down gear system works but you get 2 different sizes of rubber band in duplicate, so it will probably be similar to the 911´s paddles but more subtle.

One more thing to note is only 2 engine block end pieces so the engine will be more compact than many had feared.

On the downside, almost 30 stickers and 1600 pins of one sort or another and five totally new moulds (blue cog, orange selector, exclusive rim, disc brake and rear diffusor) in inventory.

Edited May 29, 2018 by valenciaeric

[Bartybum]

Just saw some photos on Reddit of the fully built Chiron. The front may not be 100% accurate but the whole build still looks amazing