42083 - Bugatti Chiron

[1gor]

Just another part of Chiron diecussion; dealing with engine I think that it could use idea from 8051 set...

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by I_Igor

[dforce]

8 hours ago, I_Igor said:

Just another part of Chiron diecussion; dealing with engine I think that it could use idea from 8051 set...

Just another part of Chiron diecussion; dealing with engine I think that it could use idea from 8051 set...

Do you mean the extended pistons of 8051?  I don't think that will be enough to follow the real engine's single crankshaft.  As others have mentioned, the style from Mack Anthem is too small and the regular engine pieces are too big.  I'm expecting to get a V16 engine with two crank shafts and gear connecting them, but I'd love to be mistaken! :)

[Saberwing40k]

Actually, funnily enough, a piston from the Chiron's engine is 86 mm in diameter,so in 1:8 scale, that leaves you with a 10.75 millimeter diameter piston, or not much larger than a stud, meaning that a fake engine like the Mack or something @Didumos69 recently posted would fit reasonably perfectly. Or, Lego could do an engine with the standard pistons. The way I'm thinking about it, such an engine would require only 1 new mold part, a conjoined set of 2 cylinders. 8 of these would be used, 4 for each bank, and all other parts would be standard. Basically, Lego has two options, make an accurately scaled engine and have the pistons be invisible (As most of the bulk of the engine is actually the valvetrain and cylinder heads, and these pieces would need to be added in order to have the engine look right, the engine would look too small otherwise.), or make an engine that is too large, but has fully visible pistons. Or, they could learn nothing from the Porsche, and make an engine with standard components, that is too big, and have the pistons be covered.

On the one hand, I'm excited about this set. But on the other hand, I remember the hype for the Porsche, and then the disappointment at seeing all of the cop outs and half baked solutions Lego used.

[allanp]

10.75mm is actually pretty close to a standard technic piston, a Lego stud is only about 4.8mm I think, so less than half the size needed to be in scale.

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, allanp said:

10.75mm is actually pretty close to a standard technic piston, a Lego stud is only about 4.8mm I think, so less than half the size needed to be in scale.

A stud is 8mm, a knob is 4.8mm. 10.75mm is indeed more close to a standard technic piston, which has 9mm diameter.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

4 hours ago, Saberwing40k said:

Actually, funnily enough, a piston from the Chiron's engine is 86 mm in diameter,so in 1:8 scale, that leaves you with a 10.75 millimeter diameter piston, or not much larger than a stud, meaning that a fake engine like the Mack or something @Didumos69 recently posted would fit reasonably perfectly. Or, Lego could do an engine with the standard pistons. The way I'm thinking about it, such an engine would require only 1 new mold part, a conjoined set of 2 cylinders. 8 of these would be used, 4 for each bank, and all other parts would be standard. Basically, Lego has two options, make an accurately scaled engine and have the pistons be invisible (As most of the bulk of the engine is actually the valvetrain and cylinder heads, and these pieces would need to be added in order to have the engine look right, the engine would look too small otherwise.), or make an engine that is too large, but has fully visible pistons. Or, they could learn nothing from the Porsche, and make an engine with standard components, that is too big, and have the pistons be covered.

On the one hand, I'm excited about this set. But on the other hand, I remember the hype for the Porsche, and then the disappointment at seeing all of the cop outs and half baked solutions Lego used.

Indeed the main problem with the standard LEGO parts are the cylinder blocks. The pistons are too far apart by default causing a W16 with standard cylinder blocks to be way oversized. This should come closer (complete block is 12 studs long, just like the 42083 preview video reveals). The pistons are 12mm, slightly closer to the 10.75mm than standard pistons (9mm).

Edited April 18, 2018 by Didumos69

[agrof]

Oh, I really like that engine! What about pistons made with these wheels?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=42610#T=C

Edited April 18, 2018 by agrof

[Void_S]

@Didumos69, is it feasible to rotate the 3L axles with a stop at 180 degrees to put their "stops" into the gears' holes? I think that should look even better, but don't know if it may affect the physical aspect somehow.

[tpvelo]

Pictures of the 10261 Roller coaster which is likely being VIP released alongside the Chiron on May 16th has leaked. So hopefully we will soon start seeing some pictures of the Chiron too. 

[1gor]

17 hours ago, dforce said:

Do you mean the extended pistons of 8051?  I don't think that will be enough to follow the real engine's single crankshaft.  As others have mentioned, the style from Mack Anthem is too small and the regular engine pieces are too big.  I'm expecting to get a V16 engine with two crank shafts and gear connecting them, but I'd love to be mistaken! :)

Yes I was thinking on "extended pistons" with classic LEGO engine block. Engine with 2 crank shafts is not something that is original-like

Edited April 18, 2018 by I_Igor
mistyping...

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, Void_S said:

@Didumos69, is it feasible to rotate the 3L axles with a stop at 180 degrees to put their "stops" into the gears' holes? I think that should look even better, but don't know if it may affect the physical aspect somehow.

I don't know actually. The whole setup was the result of extensive trial-and-error, but being able to sink the stops into the gears - which was not possible when using half bushes - should open new possibilities. I'll give it a try this afternoon. The pistons need a space of exactly the height of a flat plate, no more, no less.

1 hour ago, agrof said:

Oh, I really like that engine! What about pistons made with these wheels?

https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=42610#T=C

If flipping the 3L axle works, then it should also work with a half bush and this wheel attached to a 4L axle-with-stop. The stop would sink in the wheel, so it should give the exact same geometry. However, I fear the pistons would stick out too much.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Didumos69

[agrof]

Maybe with this + half bush on the bottom?

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, agrof said:

Maybe with this + half bush on the bottom?

That could only work if the cylinders would lower by half a stud, which is possible, but the whole block would get a lot longer.

3 hours ago, Void_S said:

@Didumos69, is it feasible to rotate the 3L axles with a stop at 180 degrees to put their "stops" into the gears' holes? I think that should look even better, but don't know if it may affect the physical aspect somehow.

I tried and it actually works. I flipped the 3L axles, sunk the stops  in the gears and made the bottom-side of the bushes level with the bottom side of the piston-axles, using the flat side of a beam. The movement is now exactly half a stud. Still my only concern for this being a worthy replacement of the 42083 stock W16 is the friction. It runs smooth, but moving the pistons costs energy.

[agrof]

4 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

That could only work if the cylinders would lower by half a stud, which is possible, but the whole block would get a lot longer.

True. BTW: satisfying finger practice to kill the time in the long wait.  

[dforce]

These posts are why I love Eurobricks.  There are people with more parts and way more know-how, who find some fantastic solutions.  Thanks! @Didumos6

Edited April 18, 2018 by dforce

[Bartybum]

Ahhh I love this engine. I’m so worried that Lego will try make an oversized one. :(

[allanp]

It looks good, but for me these types of engine like as used in the Mack aren't realistic as there is no crank, just a cam, and no connection between the pistons and the faux crank, only gravity makes the pistons go down, and the stroke is only half a stud max, and the bore is narrower than the bevel gear that represents the piston and so on. For a MOC it is a nice build, but for an official Technic set, with their ability to make new parts, I would hope they recreate the engine more realistically. I know that real engines have closed off cylinder heads, valves and so on. But despite all that's missing from a standard Lego engine at least all the stuff that is there is somewhat realistic. Replacing the crank shaft for a cam shaft for me is no Bueno. 

[Didumos69]

14 hours ago, agrof said:

BTW: satisfying finger practice to kill the time in the long wait.  

That's what it is, although I'm not awaiting the Bugatti, I'm actually waiting for the latest parts to finish my RC buggy.

1 hour ago, allanp said:

It looks good, but for me these types of engine like as used in the Mack aren't realistic as there is no crank, just a cam, and no connection between the pistons and the faux crank, only gravity makes the pistons go down, and the stroke is only half a stud max, and the bore is narrower than the bevel gear that represents the piston and so on. For a MOC it is a nice build, but for an official Technic set, with their ability to make new parts, I would hope they recreate the engine more realistically. I know that real engines have closed off cylinder heads, valves and so on. But despite all that's missing from a standard Lego engine at least all the stuff that is there is somewhat realistic. Replacing the crank shaft for a cam shaft for me is no Bueno. 

I actually have the same problem with this type of engine, but if you want something out of the ordinary at this scale, I'm afraid cam-driven pistons are the only possibility. I don't think LEGO is going to introduce new engine-parts. Not if they are only useful for a W-type engine.

15 hours ago, dforce said:

These posts are why I love Eurobricks.  There are people with more parts and way more know-how, who find some fantastic solutions.  Thanks! @Didumos6

10 hours ago, Bartybum said:

Ahhh I love this engine. I’m so worried that Lego will try make an oversized one. :(

Thanks! If you want to fiddle with it while awaiting the Bugatti Chiron, instructions can be found on Rebrickable.

If you build this:
- Be sure to level the bottom-ends of the 3L piston-axles with the bottom-ends of the bushes by pressing them against the flat side of a beam.
- Sink the piston-axle-end-stops all the way into the 12t gears.
- Make sure the round side of the bushes face down.

[Jurss]

2 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

although I'm not awaiting the Bugatti,

I'm also, I'm waiting for instructions of it   , I hope, there won't be very specific parts.

I've built one of those Porsches with improved playability. Came to conclusion, that playability isn't possible for this size and weight. The same will be with Chiron. It will be pleasure to open box, read manual etc, do all the assembly (best part), then for some 5min try functions, and then put on the shelf or disassemble it.

Yes, some will try to improve something, some will build that changed model also. These sets are not for playing with them.

 

[Didumos69]

5 minutes ago, Jurss said:

I'm also, I'm waiting for instructions of it   , I hope, there won't be very specific parts.

I've built one of those Porsches with improved playability. Came to conclusion, that playability isn't possible for this size and weight. The same will be with Chiron. It will be pleasure to open box, read manual etc, do all the assembly (best part), then for some 5min try functions, and then put on the shelf or disassemble it.

Yes, some will try to improve something, some will build that changed model also. These sets are not for playing with them.

I agree. With so many parts this is going to be a model that is going to suffer from its own weight a lot. It will probably be a display model just like the Porsche. But still, to judge it properly, I would really like to build it.

[Bartelas]

Exactly! Hence this whole “holes debacle” 

[AVCampos]

16 minutes ago, Jurss said:

I hope, there won't be very specific parts.

I don't have much hope in that. Compared to previous years, this semester has seen practically no new moulds (the only exception being the Mack bulldog), so I suspect the Technic team saved their yearly new moulds budget to spend it all on the 2nd half of the year.

[Bartybum]

1 hour ago, AVCampos said:

*snip*

Well I mean, they’ve pretty much run out of things to mold now without getting into too specific parts. The current selection is pretty sufficient.

inb4 7L dogbone

[AVCampos]

What about a 4L pin? That would be massively useful. There is also somewhere around here a parts wishlist topic, with lots of useful ideas that so far TLG didn't implement.

[Didumos69]

25 minutes ago, AVCampos said:

There is also somewhere around here a parts wishlist topic, with lots of useful ideas that so far TLG didn't implement.