Aesthetics and Technics

[DugaldIC]

25 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I was triggered by the Holes in Technic MOCs topic, which made me wonder, how did we diverge from the core Technic theme so much. I wanted to express that I sometimes feel disappointed when I see the discussion is about aesthetics rather than Technic more and more.

But this has been going on for years and it's people doing what they want with a building system that encourages creativity. People build mocs because they want something that Lego doesn't offer. That doesn't mean they have to adhere to strict rules. Everyone here has there own ideals when it comes to Lego, some for pure functionality, some for a shelf full of mocs to display and the list goes on. I guess I'm just confused on why it's such a big deal. I say we encourage and help, not discriminate because they can't build the way you want them to. One of the things I love about eurobricks is its diversity, I get to see all sorts of wonderful, crazy creations all in one place! 

Edited January 13, 2018 by DugaldIC

[KD123]

Let creativity flow.  Open, closed, function over aesthetics... That's personal preference.   Make what you want.

The true issue is the idea of the "vs".  When people start getting annoyed at each other for praising the work of others this opens a dark door.  This is the air of arrogance which can only stifle innovation and creativity.

Play well please.

[DugaldIC]

9 minutes ago, KD123 said:

The true issue is the idea of the "vs".  When people start getting annoyed at each other for praising the work of others this opens a dark door.  This is the air of arrogance which can only stifle innovation and creativity.

Agreed! 

[Mysh]

Didumos I like very much your creations, but I got to say that I am a sucker for good looks. For building quality and robustness, at least on my level, I can only judge while building. Maybe my level is too low, but it's hard to understand a build for a few pictures.

[kbalage]

Technic as a Lego theme seems to be specific enough but in reality you can build anything using these parts and I personally think that all those creations have place in this subforum. For some people Technic means mechanics, gears and axles, for others it is panels, beams and wheels. I recall seeing someone building flowers using only Technic parts, no mechanics just the parts - I think they could be also here in this forum. As others wrote this place is to unite people with a similar interest and not to divide them into tiny little categories where only people with the exact same interest share their creations. 

I admire people who has the ability to imagine and create complex mechanics. I like to browse such topics and follow the discussions, but I'll probably never post something like that because Technic for me is different (and I'd never be able to create something similar). For me it is mostly about cars, remote controlled cars as fast as possible, probably because I'm looking for playability and cool look sharing the passion with my 10 year old boy. From this perspective I respect look and speed over complex inner mechanics. If an 8 speed gearbox can bring my car from super-mega-slow all the way up to still-not-faster-than-a-snail then I will simply not use it. I respect the build quality and the effort if someone uses such but I'm not interested in building it. 

About the look and especially presentation - I'm a long time hobbyist photographer, so presentation is as important for me as the inner workings. I feel pain if I see a great MOC poorly presented and poorly photographed, and I totally understand if something like that does not get frontpaged (which I never check, I have the Technic forum bookmarked). If the aim is to bring people from the front page to this forum then whatever is presented there needs to be good looking and interesting enough to click on it.

I don't think we need to compare themes and creations within the Technic world, everyone should be able to find their interest and find similar people to share it. If you're not interested in one topic, then simply ignore it, look for something else that you like. And I agree, we should not praise blindly for the sake of interaction or to expect the same back for our own posts. Constructive criticism is always a good thing and helps to evolve. 

 

[Lipko]

I kind of agree and disagree with you. I feel a bit upset when models get praised which don't work and/or hard and frustrating to assemble or so fragile that they fall apart during assembly. My models look okay, but work okay at the same time and the assembly is okay too (especially if I make instructions), and I still don't exist for Hungarians for example. I don't exist for shops (I always order with my own name, and there's pretty much the only one in the world with this name), for exhibitions*, for SBrick, whatever. Yet, I hear builders say they get discounts, promotions etc.

On the other hand, there's nothing stopping us from designing awesome models that get attention in this age we are living in (if we live in the luckier half of the world...). We are doing something wrong. Maybe we should jut let go popularity (less attention to or no photo, video or instructions making) and focus on building.

 

*Oky, I am invited to an exhibition for the second time in my life, because the organizer is a member of the forum I used to visit and the few builders there were invited. The first was some 5 years ago after my V12 Coupé, I really though that time my "career" started.

[kbalage]

@Lipko this is already a slightly different topic but about recognition and success in the Lego world - it works pretty much the same as with anything else. If you're looking for success, then you have to build following the taste and requirements of your audience and you need to be able to sell it (not only literally), promote, do all the marketing bulls**t. There's too much noise in this world, only the loudest gets recognized. I'm not sure if it is about the geographical location, rather the attitude and where you put your efforts (building vs promoting).

[Meatman]

Interesting subject for this thread.

One thing that I've noticed here is that different builders get criticized differently for the same thing. I am not even going to bring up names or models, but I do recall one guy getting criticized for "stacking beams" when he used like 3 beams on top of each other(I think for doors), but then other builders get heavy praised when their entire model is nothing but stacked beams to fill in gaps and create shapes.

As far as popularity goes, from what I've noticed in my years on the internet, the people who seem to be most recognized are the one who are the most innovative.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Meatman

[JonathanM]

I reckon everything belongs. I find I enjoy the mix. Some stuff I just skip over if I'm not all that interested in it. Different people/personalities contribute in different ways. I read just about all of @Didumos69's posts as they often contain some ingenious part usage. In a different way I enjoy @kbalage's posts as I can guarantee some awesome photography or videography with technic figures to boot. These are just two examples in a cast of hundreds that I enjoy reading. At the moment I'm building @steph77's awesome helicopter, and making some modifications as I go which has been really challenging and fun as well! :)

Agreed that the forum doesn't need splitting up. Also I'm another that never hits the main page - technic subforum only :)

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, DugaldIC said:

But this has been going on for years and it's people doing what they want with a building system that encourages creativity. People build mocs because they want something that Lego doesn't offer. That doesn't mean they have to adhere to strict rules. Everyone here has there own ideals when it comes to Lego, some for pure functionality, some for a shelf full of mocs to display and the list goes on. I guess I'm just confused on why it's such a big deal. I say we encourage and help, not discriminate because they can't build the way you want them to. One of the things I love about eurobricks is its diversity, I get to see all sorts of wonderful, crazy creations all in one place! 

I actually completely agree with you and practically feel the same way. I enjoy this forum and it's diversity very much. Only every now and than this feeling pops up that I somehow long back to the old school Technic days and wish the entire community would go back there with me. Maybe it's just me getting old.

I'm sorry if my OP was discriminating or offending in any way. I think it was a bit of an unkind way of sharing this uncomfortable feeling I sometimes get. I don't know if it was a wise thing to share it here. It does on the other hand give a lot of interesting responses that all make sense.

2 hours ago, KD123 said:

Let creativity flow.  Open, closed, function over aesthetics... That's personal preference.   Make what you want.

The true issue is the idea of the "vs".  When people start getting annoyed at each other for praising the work of others this opens a dark door.  This is the air of arrogance which can only stifle innovation and creativity.

Play well please.

You are right about the vs. connotation. I rephrased the topic name. Like I said, my OP was maybe a bit of an unkind way of sharing a feeling of disappointment or longing back. I wouldn't want to open the dark door you are referring too any further than I might have done.

[Didumos69]

Btw, some responses are about recognition. I may have sounded annoyed in the OP,  but for me that has nothing to do with recognition. I feel very much recognized. I have  been referenced by famous builders in their latest MOCs, which is about the biggest compliment I can think of.

[agrof]

49 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

I think it was a bit of an unkind way of sharing this uncomfortable feeling I sometimes get. I don't know if it was a wise thing to share it here. It does on the other hand give a lot of interesting responses that all make sense.

Never think it is a bad thing to bring feelings on the table. As You see, it has generated a nice discussion, for sure many recognize the same in their own experiences, and also good opportunity to get feedbacks for self-control in case. I have also an opinion about the theme, but my theory is too grandiose to be shared (vanishing in mystical fog... husssh). Actually, I am way to lazy to type. 

Discussion is good, frustration is bad. Mkey?

Edited January 13, 2018 by agrof

[Sariel]

8 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

Some "well-known" builders could likely get pretty much every single one of their builds front-paged (like perhaps @sariel)

Just wanted to say that I don't visit frontpage nor Hall Of Fame topic and I have no clue what's going on in there. I'm not a fan of putting some selected creations in the limelight because that creates unnecessary tensions, but then I don't run this forum. It's a sad fact of life that we can't be all equally known, and somebody will always get more recognition, but that doesn't mean that "well-known" builders are spending their days basking in fame or something. Personally, I make it my point to always leave the reception of a model to the audience, which is why I never name my models "the fastest" or "the biggest" or any other catchy things that some people frequently use. 

[Saberwing40k]

I can be annoyed by what provokes discussion. for instance, I make an interesting creation that has pictures and a write up, and it gets 2 replies. Somebody posts a topic about an S tank with no pictures of information, and they have like two pages of discussion. Just my two cents, but I feel like a lot of builders have moved away from technical diagrams, which I love to see, and have more focus on glamor shots. Now, I do like a good looking model, but I also like to see how it functions. Jennifer Clarke's website is something I really like, and I don't feel is done enough anymore.

 

Or, maybe my problem is that I'm trying to participate in this forum, and I feel like I am kind of ignored, and I alienate people, whether through words or actions.

[mocbuild101]

On 1/13/2018 at 7:35 PM, Didumos69 said:

Over time I have come to ignore the mere showing-off posts, with every time the same people cheering, more and more..

I've started to do that a bit too lately, it's not that I don't like them, it's more so I don't get disappointed by my own MOCs - because if I only look at the average MOCs, mine will seem just as good, and I will end up a lot happier after I build something.

On 1/13/2018 at 7:58 PM, legolijntje said:

I don't think that this has a lot to do with the fact that gearboxes aren't great, they're just less interesting to the majority of non-Technic builders. And the frontpage is visited by everyone, also those who don't build Technic. If Technic had a special own frontpage, and it only featured good-looking models and not interesting proof-of-concepts, technical miracles and whatnot, I'd agree. But for the general-frontpage, I don't really mind.

I agree - because once people are "tricked" into visiting the TF, they will look at other, and possibly your own MOCs, and you'll end up getting more views than if that frontpaged MOC hadn't been posted.

On 1/13/2018 at 9:53 PM, Erik Leppen said:

And not only are models selected on good looks, they are also selected on good photography, which has even less to do with Technic. At least good looks are a quality of the model itself.

Yeah, just because they prefer to spend more time building than taking good photos, doesn't mean that their MOCs aren't great.

23 hours ago, Sariel said:

As for the looks VS functions discussion, I really think it's pointless because in the end you can't order people what to appreciate and what not to appreciate in a model. If someone cares for looks more than for functions, is he wrong? Does look of a model matters less if it has Technic functions? People will like what they want, and you just have to roll with it.

Exactly!

20 hours ago, knotian said:

What front page???   My bookmark is to this forum where I can see all things technic. Good, bad, and indifferent.

Same here...

Edited January 14, 2018 by mocbuild101

[steph77]

I am clearly in the category of people building technics and who try to keep it aesthetic as well as they can.

I am also one of those for whom the Holy Grail is to come with the perfect balanced Moc between one technics side and the other side aesthetics.

At my knowledge, only very few people in the world can pretend to this. No name here, but we all know them.

So whatever technics or aesthetics, in my opinion, it's always the balance between both of them who will blow my mind away.

Only my opinion.

Steph.

EDIT: clearly, for me no split onto sub-forums it's a complete no-sense. I am also one of those who have register the technic and mindstorm topic listing as internet explorer home page ;)

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by steph77
EDIT

[doug72]

2 hours ago, steph77 said:

I am also one of those who have register the technic and mindstorm topic listing as internet explorer home page ;)

My home page is the same, plus I often check the Trains Tech forum, never even noticed that the Scale Modelling forum had moved.

[nerdsforprez]

8 hours ago, mocbuild101 said:

@Lox Lego's MOC topics are probably a good example... (not that they're bad, they just tend to have more photos of the outside of the car)

Exactly!

Same here...

This has been a great topic that has generated a lot of good discussion.  But for it to continue without getting too many feelings hurt, I think we should refrain from specifically naming folks.  Especially when the OP has even changed the title of the post due to the emotionally-loaded term "showing off" - and for what it is worth, I do not agree with the opinion expressed as it applies to the identified builder.....

[mocbuild101]

2 minutes ago, nerdsforprez said:

But for it to continue without getting too many feelings hurt, I think we should refrain from specifically naming folks.

Yeah, I guess you're right...

[Aventador2004]

6 hours ago, steph77 said:

EDIT: clearly, for me no split onto sub-forums it's a complete no-sense. I am also one of those who have register the technic and mindstorm topic listing as internet explorer home page ;

I do also, I imagine many others too. It was also stated by many members that this is the most friendly  forum.

[Didumos69]

26 minutes ago, Aventador2004 said:

It was also stated by many members that this is the most friendly  forum.

This does not amaze me. This forum has a very social vibe. Even my some what harsh OP results in a very sophisticated discussion.

[Aventador2004]

22 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

This does not amaze me. This forum has a very social vibe. Even my some what harsh OP results in a very sophisticated discussion.

Yes just like when arguments happen, no one really fights, they add very good points. In other forums the confrontate and fight.

[TeamThrifty]

2 hours ago, Aventador2004 said:

It was also stated by many members that this is the most friendly  forum.

The great thing about this forum, is its not really like a forum.. well, it is as they're intended to be. But we all know the web is full of forums populated by people who can't distinguish the between 'difference of opinion' and 'argument'. Or opinion and fact. Which is why most turn into a magnet for.... a word i won't use here. But they attract a certain kind...

Some comments above have been.. provocative/argumentative, when really its just a difference of opinion that should be able to be discussed between like-minded people with no negativity.  

Personally i love a technical challenge, and enjoy looking at other's solutions much more than i enjoy the aesthetics - whether building or looking. But i appreciate both.

But you know what? these bricks with do either, and in the right hands, both at the same time. thats the beauty of it! And as for the 'illegal' cult... enough of that already. 

[Aventador2004]

1 minute ago, TeamThrifty said:

The great thing about this forum, is its not really like a forum.. well, it is as they're intended to be. But we all know the web is full of forums populated by people who can't distinguish the between 'difference of opinion' and 'argument'. Or opinion and fact. Which is why most turn into a magnet for.... a word i won't use here. But they attract a certain kind...

But you know what? these bricks with do either, and in the right hands, both at the same time. thats the beauty of it! And as for the 'illegal' cult... enough of that already. 

Yes, exactly that. I hate that kind of forum.

By what do you mean?...

[Erik Leppen]

20 hours ago, Meatman said:

One thing that I've noticed here is that different builders get criticized differently for the same thing

I say this is only natural. People are different, so the same build by different people is a different achievement. If someone posts an OK model but his previous models were quite bad, then I tend to praise the OK model for the progress the builder has made and what he or she has learned. If someone else would post an OK model and his/her previous models are very good, then I would be much more critical.

Personally I find this forum very friendly to new people whose skills may not yet match our own.

16 hours ago, Sariel said:

Personally, I make it my point to always leave the reception of a model to the audience, which is why I never name my models "the fastest" or "the biggest" or any other catchy things that some people frequently use. 

I have the same mentality. In fact I had this on a game programming forum where this resulted in such a lack of recognition that a member I respected a lot made a specific topic about my games and the lack of recognition they seemed to generate, partly because of the "bland" topic titles. However in general I feel that here on EB, the amount of recognition people get is pretty well balanced.

I agree that in general this forum tends to be a very friendly part of the internet and I personally find discussions like these very interesting and valuable.