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3 minutes ago, Kwatchi said:

((sip))

Nuh-uh.  Like, saying my reasons aren't "good" simply because I have changed my vote to you is not much of a counter-argument. Smacks of deflection defense to me.  Throwing in a "you look suspicious" threat is a nice touch btw.

Besides, I am not the one who sticking hard on their vote on the postman simply because he is, like, "interesting".   Early days yet, but he is acting FAR more trustworthy than you are atm.

((sip))

This is typical Day 1.  If I was going to "deflection defense" I would have switched my vote to you.  As I said conversation is important at least he is talking, as are you, although your are more bickering with me than having a conversation.   Bickering will only keep those who are quiet more so and only serves to help the scum amongst us.  The idea is to have solid good conversation to bring out those not willing to speak not bicker as to intimidate them to be silent. 

Keep your vote on me if you want; just give good reasons why.

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16 minutes ago, Lady K said:

...and you did mention death by tree falling so......

For the record, logging is very safe. Few people die each year.

@Lady K So you thought bringing up a new faction would get something out of Clifford? There wasn't much of a response from him regarding that, and you've caught some flak for it. I'm wondering what you were thinking depending on what his theoretical response would be.

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2 minutes ago, Lady K said:

This is typical Day 1.  If I was going to "deflection defense" I would have switched my vote to you.  As I said conversation is important at least he is talking, as are you, although your are more bickering with me than having a conversation.   Bickering will only keep those who are quiet more so and only serves to help the scum amongst us.  The idea is to have solid good conversation to bring out those not willing to speak not bicker as to intimidate them to be silent. 

Keep your vote on me if you want; just give good reasons why.

((sip))

Again with, like, deflection.  I'll admit, you are good at this.

  • You are "bickering" which is only helps the scum.
  • Again with you don't have "good" reasons.
  • Subtle threat reminder you can vote against me.

It smells like you are trying to bluff your way out of a false step.

 

And sorry Postman.  I seem to, like, recall earlier you saying you were acting suspicious in order to be bait.  My theory at the moment is you caught a fish who thought she had an easy lunch and is now trying to, like, wriggle away.

((sip))

I think I have stated my case pretty clearly.  But the one thing Stephanie is right about is that we need some others to step up with opinions.  So I'll sit back for a bit and see what others have to say.

[...Which has nothing to do with the fact I have RL things to do.  I promise :wink:]

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9 hours ago, Tariq j said:

So what you're actually saying is "I'm not going to vote in case I get questioned/scrutinised for it, so I'll wait for a bandwagon to form and then my vote will pass easily" I can't tell whether that's a rookie error or if a scum would really say this in thread. 

You've made a lot accusations yet not actually placed a vote, are you trying to be like Clifford by waiting for everyone else to vote so you can hop on the bandwagon? Brock Martin (Harry Oldman)

Sorry, messed that up, Vote: Harry Oldman (Fhommes)

What's so hard about my name that people keep messing it up?

I'll vote when I'm ready.  Accusations get the conversation going and we need conversation.  We have literally nothing else to go on at this point.  Those of you who are put off by my gruff  approach can go cry in a corner.

4 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

All those votes for little old me? Well, I guess it would be flattering if this here was a beauty contest, but enough joking around. This is serious.

Ya see, what scum would act so obvious? No doubt the Ballagio family is a smart bunch. So why would the Ballagio family send in some doofus who'd get lynched first day on the job? They wouldn't. 

By acting suspicious on purpose, I was throwing out a line. And I wanted to see who would bite.

So for those who voted for me so far, I suspect your innocent. For now.

Thanks for the defense fellow old timer, but for what reason did you feel the need to defend me when I was exhibiting suspicion behavior.

Did it just seem unfair because I'm old and I talk nonsense? 

Or did you mistake me for a fellow scum and felt that people were on to me?

Your insight may help us to understand your actions, but for now...

Vote: Harry Oldman (fhomess)

I don't understand the reasoning to suspect those that voted for you are innocent.  I'm sure Ballagio clan members are as eager to pounce on someone suspicious as the rest of us.

I didn't make any defense of you.  I never told anyone not to vote for you.  I asked them to explain their votes.  Cathy made no effort to explain what it was about the accusation she connected with.  We need people to explain why they're voting the way they are.  Without that, we have nothing to look back on in coming days.

Alan called Clifford out, didn't vote for him, then came back and voted for him shortly thereafter.  I think it's reasonable to ask what changed in that time to convince him to place his vote.  Maybe he's scared that his first post looked too accusatory without voting.

Neither of those lines of questioning suggest those people should NOT have voted for you.  They're asking questions to understand why they did what they did.

3 hours ago, Drunknok said:

I heard a lot of baseless speculations. For a first day that is enough in my opinion. But sure, boast your aggressive ego.

 

I cast the third vote in total, with only one other person at the time sharing my vote. How you can call that "gone along with what someone else decided" is beyond me.

See above. There was no "tide mov[ing] in that direction". 

...<snip>

Why not vote for the one person who publicly claimed to go with the bandwagon, eh?

All you said was "I've heard enough" and then cast your vote.  From what I read, you just listened to what others said and did not make your own contributions.  The last line here is a perfectly valid question and a reasonable reason for your vote, but you didn't communicate that at the time.  We're not mind readers around here.

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Vote Count:

 

3 votes for Harry Oldman (fhomess): Tariq j, Khscarymovie4, LegoMonorailFan

3 votes for Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan): KotZ, Drunknok, Lady K

1 vote for Jared Hartman (Kwatchi): Kintober

1 vote for Stephanie Diaz (Lady K): Kwatchi

1 vote for Cathy Bridger (Drunknok): jluck

Nonvoting (3): Forresto, fhomess, Umbra-Manis

 

With 12 jurors remaining, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. Approximately 31 1/2 hours remain in the day.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

That's why I voted for Harry Oldman. Why should he defend me? Could he be scum and I tricked him into thinking I was scum? 

I'll say thou. Tina Hooper defended me after I showed my card. 

To be fair, you do kind of have a point, it's a common WIFOM tactic, a scum defends a townie, so if they were to die and flip scum the next day it makes the townie they defended look scum.

16 minutes ago, fhomess said:

What's so hard about my name that people keep messing it up?

I'll vote when I'm ready.  Accusations get the conversation going and we need conversation.  We have literally nothing else to go on at this point.  Those of you who are put off by my gruff  approach can go cry in a corner.

True but, votes get conversation going too. And if we vote early it means scum who like to join bandwagons without making any real accusations have no chance too. 

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24 minutes ago, fhomess said:

Alan called Clifford out, didn't vote for him, then came back and voted for him shortly thereafter.  I think it's reasonable to ask what changed in that time to convince him to place his vote.  Maybe he's scared that his first post looked too accusatory without voting.

You talking about my comment on him mentioning a bandwagon? If it's that, it's because I was just sitting on my own thoughts. Probably could have given a better explanation: he's distracting.

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I'm unconvinced that Mr. Schauer is scum however we need to vote someone off. There's very little evidence but with no clear person in danger of being mob killed I will cast my temporary vote.

Vote: Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan)

I'm prepared to change as the day goes on. 

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Well now let's see...*Scratches beard* Conversation is a wee bit slow. Anyone care to add some insight? Perhaps a vote?  

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39 minutes ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Well now let's see...*Scratches beard* Conversation is a wee bit slow. Anyone care to add some insight? Perhaps a vote?  

They have to let us out for the restrooms sometimes.

 

7 hours ago, Tariq j said:

True but, votes get conversation going too. And if we vote early it means scum who like to join bandwagons without making any real accusations have no chance too. 

At this point I agree that/believe votes are more productive than mere accusations based on nothing, which is what what we have, a big ole zero in market research. Our resident no nonsense senior citizen might as well be waiting around til the point when he's no longer a bandwagon and just the guy voting to finish off whichever candidate we choose as a mob. 

Vote: Harry Oldman (fhomess)

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23 minutes ago, Umbra-Manis said:

They have to let us out for the restrooms sometimes.

 

At this point I agree that/believe votes are more productive than mere accusations based on nothing, which is what what we have, a big ole zero in market research. Our resident no nonsense senior citizen might as well be waiting around til the point when he's no longer a bandwagon and just the guy voting to finish off whichever candidate we choose as a mob. 

Vote: Harry Oldman (fhomess)

Conversation is more productive than just random bandwagon votes, and we still have several hours before the final votes are needed.  So what are your reasons for your vote?  

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Boy it seems conversation has definitely gone up! I guess will throw my hair into all this mess.

23 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

I ain't gonna cast my vote until at least half of everybody has cast theirs. I have little to work with, and I'm hoping to catch some insight from others.

Mr. Schauer's post did look a bit scummy, but it seems it was all a ploy to see people's reactions. I think it was a clever plan, but something I don't understand is some of the reactions. After that post are dear Mr. Oldman received some votes, yet none make much sense. Speaking of which Unvote: Harry Oldman (fhomess) conversation has gone up and he started to smell better. 

20 hours ago, fhomess said:

 

You've hardly heard anything and just gone along with what someone else decided.  Have you any thoughts of your own? What about the case against Clifford is convincing you to join in?

This doesn't sit well, either.  You called Clifford out just a few moments earlier for not voting and then come back just a short while later to vote for him.  The only thing that happened in the meantime was Cathy's vote.  Why not wait for the defense and then vote?

He gave what I believe we're valid questions for people who voted for Schauer. 

20 hours ago, Drunknok said:

I think I have heard enough for one day.

 

Vote:  Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan)

At the time he did say a scummy thing but Cathy just said that's enough for one day, as if she was hopping for someone to say an odd thing vote for that person and then leave. At that point I believe we weren't even half way through the day and she was already done with discussion. So far she has been the most scummy to me. Right now Mr. Oldman and Mr. Schauer have the most votes but neither seem scummy to me yet, and Cathy voting with no reasoning in her post and saying that's enough for today is quiet scummy. 

Vote Cathy Bridger (drunknok) 

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10 hours ago, Lady K said:

As you stated here conversation is important, I'm just trying to get conversation going.  I was waiting to see what Clifford had to say to my suggestion of a possible third party.  After all it is only the first day of the trial and we have to consider all options.  At least he has been willing to engage in conversation unlike Dez and Tina who have been very quiet; with no initial votes either.   And Brock and Tony have said very little other than to vote.

You're deflecting by pointing at Dez and Tina for being suspicious. There's no reason to consider a third party until the potential for a third party presents itself, such as multiple deaths during the night. As for now, why you'd even consider bringing it up seems off.

Unvote: Jared Hartman (Kwatchi)

9 hours ago, fhomess said:

I'll vote when I'm ready.  Accusations get the conversation going and we need conversation.  We have literally nothing else to go on at this point.  Those of you who are put off by my gruff  approach can go cry in a corner.

Voting also gets a conversation going. If you had to vote for anyone right now, Harry, who'd you vote for?

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54 minutes ago, Kintobor said:

You're deflecting by pointing at Dez and Tina for being suspicious. There's no reason to consider a third party until the potential for a third party presents itself, such as multiple deaths during the night. As for now, why you'd even consider bringing it up seems off.

Unvote: Jared Hartman (Kwatchi)

Voting also gets a conversation going. If you had to vote for anyone right now, Harry, who'd you vote for?

Exactly what is it that you think I am deflecting?  

I pointed out that Clifford was willing to engage in conversation and that Dez and Tina had said very little; I never said I found either of them suspicious.

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35 minutes ago, Lady K said:

Exactly what is it that you think I am deflecting?  

I pointed out that Clifford was willing to engage in conversation and that Dez and Tina had said very little; I never said I found either of them suspicious.

My apologies. I should be clear that I find quietness suspicious, and I also find people who haven't voted suspicious, and it seemed you were deflecting my suspicion on you to them. However, if I'm being honest, after everything that's transpired, my suspicions have moved away of you and onto other people, particularly the Oldman bandwagon and Cathy.


Vote: Cathy Bridger (Drunknok)

Cathy claims that her being the second vote in a potential bandwagon isn't suspicious, and I think she misses the point. What makes her suspicious is the act of voting for someone without elaboration. That to me looks like someone jumping in early to look pro-town, and avoid the bandwagon, especially with the lack of reasoning.

Cathy, mind talking for us? What's your opinion on the current situation? Who do you think is scummy?

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Vote Count:

 

4 votes for Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan): KotZ, Drunknok, Lady K, Forresto

3 votes for Harry Oldman (fhomess): Tariq j, LegoMonorailFan, Umbra-Manis

3 votes for Cathy Bridger (Drunknok): jluck, Kintober, Khscarymovie4

1 vote for Stephanie Diaz (Lady K): Kwatchi

Nonvoting (1): fhomess

 

With 12 jurors remaining, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. Approximately 20 hours remain in the day.

 

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14 hours ago, Forresto said:

Has any of the citizenry not yet massed here with the rest of the angry mob? 

This is Dez's first comment after the voting began.  Prior to this, he was mostly asking for wood and denying that his candy shop has any illegal booze in it.  I'm happy to deny that, too.  It's certainly not where I got this bottle.

That said, I don't find this particularly helpful.  What's the point of asking this question?  You can certainly make an effort to listen to the conversation.  Why should we do that for you?

10 hours ago, Forresto said:

I'm unconvinced that Mr. Schauer is scum however we need to vote someone off. There's very little evidence but with no clear person in danger of being mob killed I will cast my temporary vote.

Vote: Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan)

I'm prepared to change as the day goes on. 

This is Dez's only other comment after voting began.  Personally, I don't think we're yet at the point where we need to bandwagon to ensure a lynch.  We have plenty fo time, and you should not vote for someone if you're unconvinced they're scum.  Dez is just trying to get someone killed and he doesn't seem to particularly care who it is.  Dez just wants us to pick the lynch for him so he can go along with it.  He's got no interest in demonstrating any of his own initiative in finding out who might be scum.

Vote: Dez Hunter (Forresto)

To answer the question posed by Gary, I do find Cathy rather suspicious as well.

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11 hours ago, Lady K said:

Conversation is more productive than just random bandwagon votes, and we still have several hours before the final votes are needed.  So what are your reasons for your vote?  

But on Day 1, where we have no night actions or kills. Votes get conversation going. Throughout the day Mr Oldman had been making general accusations and not actually giving a direct "this is the guy I want to lynch" vote until now. It felt like he was just waiting for a convenient bandwagon, so if someone questioned him later he could say "Well K said X,Y and Z about that person"

That said though, we still don't have  lynch yet and that's not good for the town, Mr Old,an has given good reasons for lynching Dez and doesn't seem as scummy as before. I'm thinking of changing my vote Clifford but I still think making a rookie error isn't enough to warrant a vote.

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I'd like to point out the obvious, and say that some of us have been discussed about. Some of us have been discussed about a lot*Cough!* 

But there's some of us who have escaped with little discussion focused toward them.

Might be worth taking a look.

 

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So at this point we need to ask do we need a day 1 lynch? We have around 12 hours left and have split between 3 suspects. Personally, I’m not convinced a lynch is necessary on day 1, but I know many other experienced players feel differently.  If we want a lynch we’ll have to make a move soon. 

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1 hour ago, Tariq j said:

That said though, we still don't have  lynch yet and that's not good for the town, Mr Old,an has given good reasons for lynching Dez and doesn't seem as scummy as before. I'm thinking of changing my vote Clifford but I still think making a rookie error isn't enough to warrant a vote.

Barely given reasons other then to deflect suspicion from himself to anyone else, no matter how shakey the argument. I can't tell if he's scummy or just scared to be voted off.

8 hours ago, fhomess said:

This is Dez's first comment after the voting began.  Prior to this, he was mostly asking for wood and denying that his candy shop has any illegal booze in it.  I'm happy to deny that, too.  It's certainly not where I got this bottle.

That said, I don't find this particularly helpful.  What's the point of asking this question?  You can certainly make an effort to listen to the conversation.  Why should we do that for you?

This is Dez's only other comment after voting began.  Personally, I don't think we're yet at the point where we need to bandwagon to ensure a lynch.  We have plenty fo time, and you should not vote for someone if you're unconvinced they're scum.  Dez is just trying to get someone killed and he doesn't seem to particularly care who it is.  Dez just wants us to pick the lynch for him so he can go along with it.  He's got no interest in demonstrating any of his own initiative in finding out who might be scum.

Vote: Dez Hunter (Forresto)

To answer the question posed by Gary, I do find Cathy rather suspicious as well.

"Why should we do that for you?" My dear sir, you can pay attention to a conversation and still desire to know whether everyone is present and accounted for. I am scummy for asking a question? Talk about jumping the gun.

There is typically very little evidence this early on and I cast a vote for someone who was at that moment in no danger of being lynched. Lynching is a legitimate strategy on day one when there is little evidence to determine who is lying or being scummy. Is it always the best strategy?

I don't know, all I want to do is live and take out the Bellagios so I can continue to run my illegal business without competition.

However your prior responses have contributed us little insight this day other then to sow mistrust and discontent and your poor argument against me, for doing nothing different then others have so far done, has led me to suspect your gruff attitude is nothing more then a veneer. 

therefore I

Unvote Clifford Schauer (LegoMonorailFan)

and I

Vote Harry Oldman (fhomess)

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I'm keeping my vote on Oldman for now. However, I agree with some on Cathy Bridger's behavior being somewhat suspicious.

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((sip))

Wassup yall.

I have been catching up on some posts, but I what have read really hasn't changed my opinion all that much.  IF people are so dead set on a day 1 lynch, which I am not convinced is a good thing, and Oldman (my original vote) is on 6 I'll consider switching back.  Right now though, I'm staying pat.

((sip))

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