[MOC] Cafe Racer

[zor2ox]

 

Sorry to be lazy that I copied the description of this build from the Ideas project page. While the guidelines doesn't allow promoting, I just left a single link here. But I think Ideas platform is not the right place to gather real comments and demands about improvement of my MOC, so that I can keep make it better, and no place is better than here among the real Technic fanatics :D

As both LEGO and classical bike enthusiastist, I was always trying to make a functional but not too out of scale engine for Technic's motorcycles. After a while digging in the Technic world of parts, I ended up with a new engine block which has proper size compare to LEGO's motorcycle's scale, created by normal engine block part and a little touch of decoration. And as a Cafe Racer fan, I tried out the new engine block into the most timeless design trend of the motorcycle world - a cafe racer. My biggest reference was Honda 1965 CB77's 2 cylinder engine, intergrated into a modern design.

To design a Technic set is not just about aesthetic, construction and function are more crucial factors. The set should be quite playable, that means sturdy, visible mechanisms and their smooth movements. Those are my guidelines in the whole process of designing this model, and the results are these properties, listed below:

• No illegal connections. I tried to design without those creatively part placements, as a real LEGO's designer would do, and keep the playing age restriction as low as possible.
• Realistic functioning 2-gears gearbox and shifting mechanism.
• Working front and rear suspension.
• Working cardan axle for smooth power transmission from rear wheel to engine's crankshaft and vice versa. That's mean this bike can be pushed by hand to see working engine, and player could also connect the motorized power parts with the crankshaft and see it drives the wheel. 

Credit of stepper mechanism in gear shifting belongs to Lego Technic Mastery

https://www.facebook.com/Lego-Technic-Mastery-345425069222914

 

And I will post this video of function first on Eurobricks before update it on Ideas, because you guys deserve to see it first xD

 

[MangaNOID]

This is really great. I do like bikes when they pop up here!

the only thing that bothers me is the wheelbase. It looks maybe a bit long? In my eye.

maybe the tank being quite long looking adds to the effect? 

 

[Jurss]

It's good cafereacer, but I woun't vote for it.

[zor2ox]

8 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

This is really great. I do like bikes when they pop up here!

the only thing that bothers me is the wheelbase. It looks maybe a bit long? In my eye.

maybe the tank being quite long looking adds to the effect? 

 

Thank you for comment. It is the shortest wheelbase I can reach because of my chosen type of front suspension and the size of motorblock. And maybe using a wide angle lens in my camera affects it too. I will consider another methods to make it looks better.

6 hours ago, Jurss said:

It's good cafereacer, but I woun't vote for it.

Hi Jurss, like I said in the first line, to get votes is not my purpose to post it here. It would be very kind of you if you can share with me the reason why this model cant get a vote from you, so that I can make it better :D

[degenerate]

The bodywork and engine looks great, very well done.

The wheelbase is waaay to long, if it was a real bike it would handle like a freight train in the corners

[1gor]

As a fan of classic bikes (from 30s), I wonder if there is some model that uses as inspiration for you, or is it just your design transfered to LEGO. Thanks

Model looks good

 

[Jurss]

23 minutes ago, zor2ox said:

why this model cant get a vote from you

It's good, but no more. There should be something unic, special etc. to move forward in Ideas, by my opinion.

[zor2ox]

3 minutes ago, degenerate said:

The bodywork and engine looks great, very well done.

The wheelbase is waaay to long, if it was a real bike it would handle like a freight train in the corners

Thank you very much. As others also mentioned the long wheel base, maybe I need to do some real measurements and maths :D

Just now, I_Igor said:

As a fan of classic bikes (from 30s), I wonder if there is some model that uses as inspiration for you, or is it just your design transfered to LEGO. Thanks

Model looks good

 

As I mentioned in the description, the engine is inspired by Honda CB77's 2 cylinders. And after finished the engine I improvise my own design. 

[zor2ox]

Just now, Jurss said:

It's good, but no more. There should be something unic, special etc. to move forward in Ideas, by my opinion.

Thank you for your reply. Technic projects are hard to move on on Ideas imho. My project get 2k views in first 3 days (most viewed among the 60-days projects) but still get fewer supports than other brick projects which only viewed 800 times. I try to bring uniqueness or speciality in this project by putting a better scaled, decorated engine, close to real-life features like shifting mechanism and gearbox, which most recent official Lego motorcycles failed to deliver. And I hope Technic fans will find it interesting. I also planning to build model B and C from this bike in further updates. Stay tuned :D

[degenerate]

I think one of the reasons a lot of lego bikes look a bit weird is the wheels,  they look too big and flimsy to represent the wheels on a real bike.

Most streetbikes use 17" wheels which look a lot more beefy, I think the lego wheels are a very poor representation of a typical  bike wheel.

Makes it a bit harder to scale the build properly I think.

[MegaRoi]

Nice bike and good detail solutions. But I also think, the wheelbase is a bit too long.  The advantage of a two cylinder motor is it's compact dimensions, so you can move the swing more to the front for a better handling. Your creation is missing this advantage.

And has only one (good looking) carburetor for two cylinders?

l'm not the person who wants to judge illegal connections, but after you mentioned you don't want to use any, I think I found some ...

- The cardan element is impossible to build legal.

- I don't know if the usage of a rod for holding the rear light is legal, but it can be rotated at least. And you can see, that the small panels are bended, because of an illegal connection.

- I don't see that the 4L axle at the cardan axle is used in a proper way. Same with the 5L as a kick stand.

- The front light looks great, but isn't attached legal. You can see, it's pulling itself out of the upper connection.

- I'm also not sure about the fixation of the small white side panels.

- It looks unfinished in some places. You can find unused pins here and there and bad braced axles. I think Lego designers have to avoid that.

But it's always nice to see Technic bikes. Thank you for your creation.

[zor2ox]

21 minutes ago, degenerate said:

I think one of the reasons a lot of lego bikes look a bit weird is the wheels,  they look too big and flimsy to represent the wheels on a real bike.

Most streetbikes use 17" wheels which look a lot more beefy, I think the lego wheels are a very poor representation of a typical  bike wheel.

Makes it a bit harder to scale the build properly I think.

Yes that's right, bigger wheels means longer wheel base, and also bigger engines etc. while the current parts not allow us to build bigger but compact engines for bikes. That's why I want to stick with classic builds, low riders or choppers, because they uses bigger and less beefier wheels, so that the scaling is not out of control :D

[1gor]

2 hours ago, zor2ox said:

Thank you very much. As others also mentioned the long wheel base, maybe I need to do some real measurements and maths :D

As I mentioned in the description, the engine is inspired by Honda CB77's 2 cylinders. And after finished the engine I improvise my own design. 

Probably I have misread Honda CB77...

Thanks 

[Boulderer]

I like the bike, though the comments from previous posts are valid, especially those about the illegal connections.  There appear to be a number of these in the build which, given its one of your criteria for the design, is fair to comment on. 

[zor2ox]

5 hours ago, MegaRoi said:

Nice bike and good detail solutions. But I also think, the wheelbase is a bit too long.  The advantage of a two cylinder motor is it's compact dimensions, so you can move the swing more to the front for a better handling. Your creation is missing this advantage.

And has only one (good looking) carburetor for two cylinders?

l'm not the person who wants to judge illegal connections, but after you mentioned you don't want to use any, I think I found some ...

- The cardan element is impossible to build legal.

- I don't know if the usage of a rod for holding the rear light is legal, but it can be rotated at least. And you can see, that the small panels are bended, because of an illegal connection.

- I don't see that the 4L axle at the cardan axle is used in a proper way. Same with the 5L as a kick stand.

- The front light looks great, but isn't attached legal. You can see, it's pulling itself out of the upper connection.

- I'm also not sure about the fixation of the small white side panels.

- It looks unfinished in some places. You can find unused pins here and there and bad braced axles. I think Lego designers have to avoid that.

But it's always nice to see Technic bikes. Thank you for your creation.

These critics with details are what I am awaiting when posting on eurobricks. Many many thanks for your c&c.

- About the wheelbase, like I commented above, I need to do some real measurement again, and to shorten it maybe the white engine protection panels have to be removed or the parallel suspension exchanged with another design.

- I have once seen 2 carburetors with one common filter somewhere else. And while I don't want to crowd the engine space with two big ones, I kept it single, but each engine head have 1 "intake" pin, so it is no problem to add another filter there.

- The cardan element is very confusing for me. The 87408 connector have a open end without bezels. I put one side pin of part 87082 inside then slightly "slide" the other end inside without force and much bending. That's why I can't determine as if it is illegal or not. But it is also not a big deal, because I still can fix it by using 87408 with the same structure as the BMW GS 1200s cardan element.

- The rear light is held with a rod, and yes it can be rotated, and I'm also not sure if it is legal or not, but as long as it holds itself in place, and there are no bending and pressure on parts, I will leave it as it is. But the panels is not bended. The white 4x2 L beam is connected with the red small panels with only one 3L pin, so that it could be raised a little bit for aesthetic purpose, and there is a small angle different between them, so that the brake light holder doesn't interfere with the panels.

- The 4L axle by the cardan element is just to keep it aligned with the frame, it could be only be braced on one side (=meaningless) so any cross axle can be in that position, but I don't know why I kept the 4L, maybe because I don't like the space there when I used an 2L axle and nothing stays out.

- I will take details tear down photos of the front light and the white side panels, so that we can judge them better. Be careful illegal connections, you will serve justice here!!!! =)))))

- I want to make this model versatile, so that I can build another model B, C or maybe the whole alphabet :D so that I left some (I think max 2-3 ones) 3L pin not be replaced by 2L, to serve the disassemble and also the part diversity of new models. There are also 2 3L cross axle on the main frame that are not braced, because they already have quer pressure to keep them in place, and to add 2x0,5L on both side hurts the aesthetic so much, which is still a big factor that I avoid trimming down too much.

Thank you guys very much for all the comments. I will keep this project posted, and will not hesitate to break it down and make it better. 

[MegaRoi]

15 hours ago, zor2ox said:

These critics with details are what I am awaiting when posting on eurobricks. Many many thanks for your c&c.

Hui, I was holding my breath after I posted my comment. I wasn't sure how you would understand my critics. Thanks for being polite with me.

First of all: It's a nice bike!

I think the long wheelbase is one of the characteristics of this bike, low and long. It's not realistic, but it shows the mechanics, so I would leave it like it is. Same with the carburetor, it looks gorgeous with the white brick, almost like a paper element. Keep the soul of the bike as it is.

About the cardan element: I was struggling at the same place and was always missing a fitting part. So I was wondering how you solved the problem.

And about legal or illegal connections: I really have no clue if a connection is okay or not. But I think in an official set, I would have announced your connections as being illegal. In an official set I want only good connections, double braced axles and a clever architecture. I a MOC, there can be more week connections, like single braced axles or panels held by only one pin. Therefore I want to have a better look or functions. But I don't want to bend or squeeze any pieces.

To find an end: I still like your bike, so try to eliminate some errors or work out some details, but leave the main concept as it is.

[zor2ox]

On 12/19/2017 at 1:25 PM, MegaRoi said:

Hui, I was holding my breath after I posted my comment. I wasn't sure how you would understand my critics. Thanks for being polite with me.

First of all: It's a nice bike!

I think the long wheelbase is one of the characteristics of this bike, low and long. It's not realistic, but it shows the mechanics, so I would leave it like it is. Same with the carburetor, it looks gorgeous with the white brick, almost like a paper element. Keep the soul of the bike as it is.

About the cardan element: I was struggling at the same place and was always missing a fitting part. So I was wondering how you solved the problem.

And about legal or illegal connections: I really have no clue if a connection is okay or not. But I think in an official set, I would have announced your connections as being illegal. In an official set I want only good connections, double braced axles and a clever architecture. I a MOC, there can be more week connections, like single braced axles or panels held by only one pin. Therefore I want to have a better look or functions. But I don't want to bend or squeeze any pieces.

To find an end: I still like your bike, so try to eliminate some errors or work out some details, but leave the main concept as it is.

Haha you don't need to hold your breath my friend. There is no place for ignorance and arrogance in improvement.

The Wheelbase problem: 

I figured it out that it is too long, while the wheelbase is almost 2,3 x seat height. For most sport bike or racing bike this ratio will be ~2,0 or smaller. Another problem adding to it is the negative trail. It make steering seems unstable in addition to longer wheelbase. That's why I changed the front wheel position, lower wheelbase by ~2L so that the trail stays positive and the ratio wheelbase/seat height is now more realistic.

The Cardan Element:
I changed the design a little bit, and pretty satisfied with the results. It is now full legal :D, simpler and connects better with the frame :D even though I still like the "flat" side view of 87082 connector in the old design. Please don't mind the 2x3L pins, I left them there incase I need to attach something new on it :D

As I learned in college, sometime you don't need double bracing to get a axle to stay in place. In many structure, even for rotating axles, you just need to brace the axle on one side for static axle sometimes bracing is no need. I try to keep all of connections sturdy but also simple.

I also took a photo of the rear element, to prove that Lego's dimension is just a miracle. There is no bending or squeezing, and they serves the angles perfectly :-O

About the head light, I kept the old design but remove the perpendicular connector behind the lamp, so that it will not interfere with other connections. But now it won't slide full way into the grey pins because the lower angle, but I think it won't hurts so I left it there. The pin can be replace by a cross axle and 0,5L bracer, but it will be too crowded.

This is the new overall look, with small touches here and there (for exp. braced kickstand :D)

Edited December 21, 2017 by zor2ox

[Myers Lego Technic]

Is it just me or are your pictures flippin' gigantic?? Also i'm noticing a bit of DOF, are you using a DSLR or Mirorless or something like an iPhone 8 in portrait mode? 

Nice MOC btw. I love the rear axle connection to the driveshaft. Very clever. 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Myers Lego Technic
Edit: judging on the pics 12MP resolution i'm assuming iPhone.

[zor2ox]

Just now, Myers Lego Technic said:

Is it just me or are your pictures flippin' gigantic?? Also i'm noticing a bit of DOF, are you using a DSLR or Mirorless or something like an iPhone 8 in portrait mode? 

Nice MOC btw. I love the rear axle connection to the driveshaft. Very clever. 

I was posting using my phone and Imgur images link generator. Maybe it generates link for original size (which is huge) I will edit them later as soon as I sit back on my PC. The updated photos are taken with my HTC U11, no portrait mode, but this phone has big aperture to a little touch of DOF :D

[MegaRoi]

Still a nice bike ... looking better.

Maybe I will try to reverse engineer the basics of your bike, to compare it with my bikes. The wheelbase reminds me to a Moto Guzzi Le Mans 1, which is also incredibly low and long.

Can you please explain the shifting mechanism a bit more? I suppose it's working with a rubber band, does it also contain a Lego clutch? Old(2L) or new(3L) type? Some photos would be nice. 

[zor2ox]

16 hours ago, MegaRoi said:

Still a nice bike ... looking better.

Maybe I will try to reverse engineer the basics of your bike, to compare it with my bikes. The wheelbase reminds me to a Moto Guzzi Le Mans 1, which is also incredibly low and long.

Can you please explain the shifting mechanism a bit more? I suppose it's working with a rubber band, does it also contain a Lego clutch? Old(2L) or new(3L) type? Some photos would be nice. 

The shifting mechanism based on this stepper: 

You can find a shifting mechanism near the end of the clip, using Lego clutch. But I don’t use any clutch there, because it takes too much place on this build. The stepper will push an axle with 2 gears on it left or right, thus switching between 2 different gear ratio. I just implemented a vertical to horizontal motion converter, using some pivot point s and beams. Pictures will come, but later because I'm out of town this Christmas.