Star Wars Episode 8, The Last Jedi discussion. **SPOILERS**

[Artanis I]

*sigh* if only

[PicnicBasketSam]

Blu-ray release date has been announced, it's March 27th. 

[Japanbuilder]

That feels faster than TFA for some reason. I hope that date is similar here in Japan. 

[x105Black]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:27 PM, Japanbuilder said:

That feels faster than TFA for some reason. I hope that date is similar here in Japan. 

Probably trying to put it out quickly to get more cash since it didn't perform as well as expected at the box office.

[Forresto]

56 minutes ago, x105Black said:

Probably trying to put it out quickly to get more cash since it didn't perform as well as expected at the box office.

That's not typically how distribution works.

[PenPlays]

3 hours ago, x105Black said:

Probably trying to put it out quickly to get more cash since it didn't perform as well as expected at the box office.

It's... actually to get it into peoples hands while the movie is still relevant. The idea is to extend the relevance in interest as long as possible.

It also typically takes longer for movies with box-office issues to produce a physical release.

[Artanis I]

I thought Disney always delayed the more popular titles to maximise the hype & anticipation and so that people will pay whatever the price ends up being extorted to (because they can't wait any longer)

Maybe that was just the kids movies

Edited February 22, 2018 by Artanis I

[Forresto]

Disney almost always releases home media three months after release. 

Typically the quicker release date for home media has a lot to do with piracy prevention. A popular movie, especially one from a franchise such as Star Wars, is going to be more pirated then a less successful movie so a quick release time on the market counteracts that. When the price is fair and the product is easily accessible the theory is people are more likely going to pay then steal. 

Now lets not mince words, the Last Jedi is by no means a failure. Regardless of what people think about the film itself, it broke a billion, surpassed Rogue One slightly and created an upward trend financially. The controversy itself will fuel piracy, as a filmmaker myself I find this an entirely disturbing and insulting attitude when access has never been cheaper.

Once the Blu-rays are manufactured the leaks are going to come out so Disney needs to mitigate that as soon as possible by releasing as soon as possible. Its part of their profit machine. For other companies they might have extended periods of time for home release after theatrical runs for myriad reasons but with Disney its always three months.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Forresto

[x105Black]

13 hours ago, Forresto said:

Now lets not mince words, the Last Jedi is by no means a failure. Regardless of what people think about the film itself, it broke a billion, surpassed Rogue One slightly and created an upward trend financially.

It was indeed a failure in many ways to a great many viewers.  Financial statements are not the only means with which to track success.  And it may have done well financially, but it came in far below the superior The Force Awakens (likely more than sequel fatigue could account for), and was pulled quickly from markets overseas for a failure to earn money at the box office.

Fan reaction is mixed, and overall I have noticed more negative reactions.  How many people bought tickets to this film and will not spend the next time as a result?  Many, myself included.  So while this movie may have made the money, Episode IX could be the movie that suffers for its failures.  The next movie may be seen as more of a failure, even though much of the loss of income would be attributable to The Last Jedi.

Of course that's all just speculation, and only time will tell.  My point is that this film left a sour taste in the mouths of many, and that will not be felt in Disney's coffers until they count future box office receipts.

[Forresto]

11 hours ago, x105Black said:

It was indeed a failure in many ways to a great many viewers.  Financial statements are not the only means with which to track success.  And it may have done well financially, but it came in far below the superior The Force Awakens (likely more than sequel fatigue could account for), and was pulled quickly from markets overseas for a failure to earn money at the box office.

Fan reaction is mixed, and overall I have noticed more negative reactions.  How many people bought tickets to this film and will not spend the next time as a result?  Many, myself included.  So while this movie may have made the money, Episode IX could be the movie that suffers for its failures.  The next movie may be seen as more of a failure, even though much of the loss of income would be attributable to The Last Jedi.

Of course that's all just speculation, and only time will tell.  My point is that this film left a sour taste in the mouths of many, and that will not be felt in Disney's coffers until they count future box office receipts.

I've posted this before and i'll post it again.

Financial success is objective. I love the movie Dune to death but it was a bomb, a financial failure, and my opinions of the movie cannot change that no matter how much I wish it.

Disney is a corporation, one that can seem rather pleasant at times but nonetheless is a corporation. Their bottom line is money and trends, not the praise or whinging of a few voices on the internet. Money talks the loudest to them, unfortunately. 

You can't compare the Last Jedi to the Force Awakens financially. The Force Awakens is a unique phenomenon, a mixture of hope for improved quality over three prior films and a decade of anticipation amongst the largest fandom for any significant Star Wars project. It is also one of the highest grossing films of all time, even when adjusted for inflation.

Only the Phantom Menace is comparable.

The Prequels

The Phantom Menace (1999): 1.025 Billion

Attack of the Clones (2002): 649.4 Million

Revenge of the Sith (2005): 848.8 Million

New Era Films

The Force Awakens (2015): 2.068 Billion

Rogue One (2016): 1.056 Billion

The Last Jedi (2017): 1.329 Billion

~~~~~~

Not even the Empire Strikes Back lived up to the gross of a New Hope.

If you gauge failure by not living up to the success of one of the highest grossing films ever, something not even the Empire Strikes Back could muster, then nothing will "succeed" by that parameter. 

As for future movies. Han Solo is going to be difficult to gauge, because a huge portion of the fanbase was already claiming they wouldn't go prior to the Last Jedi releasing. The only way we'll know is by Episode IX and neither of us can predict that.

We are also moving into uncharted water for Star Wars. We're going into the FOURTH movie releasing in sequence with the last three. Prior to this its only been the trilogies with long breaks between. We don't know what franchise fatigue looks like for Star Wars yet.

~~~~~~

Finally to address your point about the foreign box office. The Last Jedi made significantly more then Rogue One on the international market. It would have made more internationally if not for its commercial drop in china which the Force Awakens performed far stronger in.

Point made though, the Force Awakens was the FIRST Star Wars movie shown in theaters in China. There isnt a cultural connection to the franchise there like other Chinese franchises. So of course the first entry into a new story performed better, it clearly didnt garner enough interest in a sequel however.

Sources:

Spoiler

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_Canada_and_the_United_States 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars3.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars7.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2016.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_I_–_The_Phantom_Menace#cite_note-Mojo-6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_II_–_Attack_of_the_Clones

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_III_–_Revenge_of_the_Sith

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_One

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Last_Jedi

 

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Forresto

[x105Black]

While The Empire Strikes Back did not have the financial success that other films in the franchise had, it was a success in the sense that many still consider it the best Star Wars film.  The inverse can be true of The Last Jedi.

[PenPlays]

4 hours ago, x105Black said:

While The Empire Strikes Back did not have the financial success that other films in the franchise had, it was a success in the sense that many still consider it the best Star Wars film.  The inverse can be true of The Last Jedi.

The only problem here is that it took people time to appreciate Empire. It wasn't just that it wasn't as much of a commercial success. It took the completion of the trilogy at the earliest for a general consensus to be made on Empire.

Saying the inverse is true for TLJ is premature, as much as I know this thread would love that being a concrete thing.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Penkid11

[samurai-turtle]

Well this probably going to annoy someone. But the movie (The Last Jedi) already won an award AARP - Movies for Grownups. If anyone wants to see it watch PBS Great Performance. Mark Hamilton and "Rose" we're presenting with Ryan Johnson accepting the award. 

[dkorr]

I thoroughly did not enjoy the movie.  I'm a SW fan since 77.

[the last chronicler]

One thing I appreciated from TLJ is how it mirrors (Poetry...it rhymes?) TFA's scenes. In particular, a lot of the scenes are reversals (not subversions, these scenes are different and widen the narrative scope)

The key one that Rian Johnson talked about himself but I noticed in the theater--and I feel was part of trying to make the film very hopeful in the end like ANH was (May I say, the way the ending scene in TLJ works emotionally is very similar to the medal ceremony in ANH.)--was Luke's confrontation with Kylo versus Han's. While Han's death was unheroic, I love how Luke essentially learns from Han from ANH here, and we get the emotional dice mourning sequence which is also an allusion to Han letting go of his cynicism to return to shoot down Vader and allow Luke to escape to destroy the Death Star. Luke has this same final act turnaround to allow the heroes to escape demise which works well narratively, but still has the surprise you need to make the scene powerful. Of course, Luke first had a spiritual return when the light-saber flew to Rey, but now we have the payoff.

Then of course Snoke's death parallels the staging of Han's death, so we still have that gut reaction lingering when Kylo Ren shifts the saber towards Rey with a distance figure watching, that duel possibility of who Kylo Ren really wants dead. Both Rey and Kylo end up fighting with the world falling apart around them once more, this time against the system, but for opposite reasons. 

Actually, on that scene I really appreciate the way it was handled thematically, in comparison to the Emperor in ROTJ. The Emperor was always the more evil dad that could be killed in Vader's stead, and Snoke is that too, but how Kylo and Snoke are handled that becomes a complete illusion here. In TFA when 'giant Snoke' is first revealed to be a hologram it definitely crossed my that he was making himself into a bigger deal in a wizard of Oz sense, all Snoke and mirrors.

Then, first I though a Wizard of Oz comparison for TLJ would not make sense, but then I realized that Snoke's illusion was not about his reality but about his self-agrandization. He goes from this big CGI monster of unlimited power to this mortal material thing, and the fact that he goes out booming his commands while the important detail goes unnoticed matches well with Toto pulling the curtain back. Not only his mortality revealed between that golden garb as he's sliced, but then the literal curtain burns down around Rey and Kylo Ren, the Red Guard almost its manifestation as they try to maintain the illusion. So the curtain burns down like the hologram fades for Snoke, and all that's left is the truth for Rey and Kylo's motivation. 

Also, one thought that keeps coming to mind and I'm not sure if this is too deep into lore, but the TLJ book apparently says Rey and the Skywalkers are part of the cosmic force, which was gone during the Empire. ( a plot pointed added when the prequels wanted the Jedi to loose their perception of what the Emperor was doing). I'm wondering if Snoke has something to do with that, and now that he's gone the larger force is completely free again? As if Snoke was a curtain of the living force distorting reality now gone or something. I don't know, I was never a fan of different types of Force or Midiclorians.

Edited March 3, 2018 by the last chronicler

[Digger of Bricks]