Star Wars Episode 8, The Last Jedi discussion. **SPOILERS**

[Stash2Sixx]

Please, for the next two weeks, keep your Episode 8 discussions in here. Be courteous to other members of the community. Thank you.

[Whovastron]

Stayed up all night writing an essay but gave myself a quick break and saw the movie. Was pretty great, very character driven in a way Star Wars has never been before.

definately need a rewatch though!

[TeufelHund]

Just got back - my thoughts (spoilers):

 

* No decent action scenes at all. At least TFA had some good set pieces. There is maybe one action scene in this film I could see myself rewatching a couple of times but not repeatedly. The last 30 minutes of films like RotJ, AotC and RO were bonkers balls to the walls stuff. None of that to be found here.

* Luke Skywalker is cooler in this film than in all of the OT. The master-student relationship with Rey is way better than the Luke-Yoda one.

* Some lame jokes (particularly the very first one), but the humour is generally ok. Porgs managed to be both utterly adorable and funny.

* Somehow the resistance have managed to develop bombers that can drop bombs in Zero-G (did anyone think that through?)

* We finally, finally find out where Blue Milk comes from!

* One thing that really sold the film to me was the death of Snoke - totally unexpected and well done (of course given Maul came back from the same fate who can say if this is really the end...)

* Film would have been much better if Rey and Kylo had joined forces - much more interesting set up for Episode IX.

* Still no idea of Snoke's backstory. Generic evil overlord 101.

* Rey's parents were apparently space druggies who sold her for their next hit - no one special (could be a lie though)

* Leia is still alive - not sure how that's going to work out for the next episode.

* Luke setup to go all Obi Wan and sacrifice himself to let the others escape - but wait - it was just a projection - Luke lives and made the bad guys look like fools! Then he promptly dies anyway. What was the point of that? For me ideal endgame would be Kylo/Rey united with Luke to fight/redeem them in the next episode.

* Why do the FO land snowtroopers on the final planet when there's no evidence it's cold at all - weird callback to Hoth?

* Yoda turns up and is actually not too annoying.

* Phasma finally gets into the action but then promptly dies anyway.

 

I think action wise there are a lot better SW films out there but this is at least interesting because of it's non-binary exploration of the force I guess. Better than the prequels maybe slightly better than TFA if only because it's more original.

Some Lego thoughts:

• First Order Heavy Scout Walker nowhere to be seen – not even in the background. True Bargain Bin Material.
• No sight of the Walker pilots. Did Lego make these up?
• You don't need more than 2 Executioner Stormies – no need to army build these.
• TLG need to produce Snoke Bodyguard Minifigs ASAP!
• Speaking of Snoke – it's a good thing he's a standard minifig that comes apart at the hips...

 

Edited December 14, 2017 by TeufelHund

[Cypirate]

I saw The Last Jedi yesterday with a friend and I am really pleased with the movie. I mean: space battles, ground battles, lightsaber duels, jedi training, infiltration missions, good guys running away from the badies in a desperate situation, a bit of humour here and there, new ships and planets... To me, that's kind of everything a Star Wars movie needs

Now onto the Lego side of things!

As mentionned by TeufelHund, no Heavy Scout Walker to be seen in the movie and Executioner Stormtroopers do not really belong to a Battlepack.

For future set ideas/hopes: Snoke's throne room is definitely one with some Praetorians Guards :D

One of the new A-wing could be nice (other than a micro-fighter)

Maybe the First Order AT-ST we see in the Supremacy during Finn and Phasma's fight or even a playset of the fight in the hangar.

The ship stolen by DJ could be cool to see with a minifig of this new character.

I can bet on a Canto Bight playset with either the Casino, the prison, the fathiers and/or the Cantonian police speeder

Possibly another playset of the Raddus with General Holdo and a few other resistance officers, a bit like the 7754-1 Home One Mon Calamari Star Cruiser

And if they can manage to make a Volptex figure/piece I'll be very satisfied

[Artanis I]

I felt a bit weird (and disappointed) on seeing episode 7 the first time, but I received this movie fairly well. A lot more space battles, aliens & creatures this time, it felt more like the Star Wars franchise to me. Opening crawl had me thinking "oh no, not another ESB"

So when they were bunkered down with the white salt ground it had that Hoth thing happening, AT-ATs included, I got a bit worried again. But it wasn't too bad. I also got a Helm's Deep vibe going, haha. The next movie had better not have another Death Star type thing...

A bit long at 2:30 though, SW movies have always been 2 hours. Time will tell how much I like this movie, too early to say.

 

11 hours ago, TeufelHund said:

* One thing that really sold the film to me was the death of Snoke - totally unexpected and well done (of course given Maul came back from the same fate who can say if this is really the end...)

 

* Still no idea of Snoke's backstory. Generic evil overlord 101.

1 Really? I thought he was the only one that didn't see it coming. Unofficial rule #1 of being a sith lord is kill your master, so it was always going to happen.

2 That annoyed me. Unless it's revealed somehow later, he's yet another "super incredible all-powerful bad guy that came from nowhere in no time" like all these blockbuster nerd films. That really drives me up the wall.

[Darth Malgus]

There are images of an AT-ST less cockpit on the internet. 

 

Loved a lot of the movie. Middle act wasn't really needed... but the casino and racing was a nice side element, I liked the police and would much rather an escape set with the horsey thingy.

I like that it was different as well, Luke was good, different and Yoda, well it was executed rather well.

[BrickG]

Okay so...

 

I don't think it's... very good... 

I think this movie was very Disneyfied...

 

There was too much humor. Too many useless scenes. All Star Wars movies have a few but this was JAM PACKED with little scenes meant to be clever or get a laugh that ultimately add nothing. I couldn't help but think Rain Johnson has George Lucased this movie, in a prequel way...

Like when BB8 is dealing with the cartoon alien at the casino who puts coins in him. Useless. I'd say not funny too. Looked bad. 

Or when the Iron scene acted like it was a spaceship. But it ended up being a stupid transition to an iron. I even thought "this looks like and iron, it had better not be an iron, oh look it's and iron..."

Or the blue milk scene... Or the "look at all the porgs in the falcon"... Blablablabla...

There were literally dozens of them. Useless little dumb scenes that tried to be funny and clever. And honestly I was eating it up until I noticed half the freakin' movie was this stuff. I dream of an edited version of the movie where most of this crap is taken out. It was just bad. Waaaay too much.

 

 

Then there's the scene where that lady light speeds her ship into the enemy fleet. WHY THE FUDGE DIDNT SHE DO THAY EARLIER? WHY DONT THEY DO THAT ALL THE TIME? Heck, set up your ships to autopilot so you don't have to kill yourself and lightspeed a single tiny less valuable ship to destroy FLEETS of enemy ships! It makes NO sense. Why don't they use this tactic ALL THE TIME? 

 

CGI spectacle was over the top. From some of the aliens, to simply some scenes like when Rey is sitting outside the mountain. So many fake looking scenes and characters.

 

Flying Leia. Come on. Please be more subtle or something. 

 

Snoke. I get that he was just a plot device. I mean the Emperor was. He had very little backstory and even in the prequels he doesn't have much. But something about how "sudden" Snoke's death was is disappointing. 

He was built up a lot. Especially in the external media and books and stuff. I mean a LOT as some kind of ancient being who say the rise and fall of the Empire. Then he just died pretty easily.

I get that he was a plot device. But there was so much buildup about possibly getting answers... That there's no way it isn't disappointing. We never say the "completed" training. We never learned anything about him. 

I get that they wanted to shock us by killing the big baddie so quickly. But that just leaves him feeling underutilized. It feels BAD and was not a good choice. Its also a modern common trope I keep seeing the past year or two; they build up a bad guy, make them seem like the ultimate evil, then BAM! Kill them! Didn't expect that did ya? Well honestly maybe not but it doesn't matter because it doesn't work sometimes. Such as with Snoke. I'm just DIASAPPIONTED. Palpatine was just a plot device but the buildup and release was satisfying. The story had a proper end for him and it worked. Not only didn't Snoke's death NOT work but it felt as useless as the Porg... 

 

Honestly I haven't been as disappointed in a Star Wars movie since the prequels. Its not THAT bad but it's super Disneyfied and JJ should have never left (glad he's back for 9). It also makes me absolutely not be excited for Rain Johnson's trilogy which will enevitably be kind of bad.

 

:(

[BrickG]

I can't help but go on...

WHY was the entire Republic fleet around those destroyed world's? The Republic is thousands of smaller governments, millions of worlds. Destroy one and everything falls? This movie does terrible with scale. Its like the Clone Wars TV show how the fate of entire world's with BILLIONs comes down to a single battle that involves a few dozen people. Makes no sense.

 

Another annoying scene that was just for spectacle... There is too much spectacle...

BB8 stealing the ATST. Okay it could have been cool. But honestly when the armies got ripped off you might as well have had BB8 there waving his arms talking in English " HELLO I AM BB8 AND I STOLE THIS ATST!!! I STOLE IT!!! IM BB8!!!! LOOOK AT ME!!!! ATSTS ARE COOL!!! IM BB8 ARENT I SO COOL?"

What this film lacks is subtly. Think when Cheque stole the ATST. It was well done. He's blowing up people with the Ewoks. Comes across Han and Leia who for a second think they're screwed then Chewie pops his head out. 

In this they rip the whole armorial section off so BB8 becomes a freakin' Transformer. Why not just show the ATST destroying stuff and show BB8 inside of it? Maybe the heroes being confused for a minute only to have BB8 pop out?

 

Then the ending... The needless scene with the stupid kid who force powered the broom to his hands (I think) and had that rebel alliance ring. Looking at the stars. Being a stupid kid.

Too on the nose.

 

Half the movie felt like when Rick talks to the audience from Rick and Morty "WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB LOOK AT THIS STAR WARS IS COOOLL!!! ATST ATST!!! FOOORCE POWERS!!! KIDS IS PART OF THE REBEL ALLIANCE THERE IS HOOOOPE!!!! STAR WARS STAR WARS!!!! POOOOORGS!!!!"

 

God darn it. Disney sucked the soul out of this one.

 

[Brickdoctor]

To summarize in one sentence: as a film, I thought this was one of the better Star Wars movies; as a Star Wars fanboy, I have very mixed feelings.

• I waited two years to find out nothing about Rey. Of all the Internet theories about her origins, "nobody" was my least favorite. I get that it's more realistic if she's nobody; it's a big galaxy. But this is Star Wars, and I don't want realism. I want the story of the next Skywalker. Granted, it's very possible that Kylo was lying about her origins, but even then, that means we learned nothing about her origins in this film. This film leaves the single greatest question posed by The Force Awakens unanswered. (I imagine that) it's like if, after waiting three years, Jedi neither confirmed nor denied that Vader was Luke's father.
• On a related but contrasting note, I was happy that Snoke turned out to have no connection to previous characters. My major complaint with the EU novel Darth Plagueis was that there were too many layers of Sith masters, one big bad behind the other, each responsible for ever more elaborate schemes. I'm happy that that was not the case here.
• Back to the idea of nobodies: what was that stupid scene with the stupid stargazing kid and the broom and his stupid action figures at the end? The film as a whole, especially with the more humorous moments, seemed un-Star-Warsy at times.
• Oh yeah, Phasma totally had a larger role in this movie.
• But while we're talking about Snoke, I think it was a great move to kill him off in that way. Kylo is always being compared to Vader, and this is the action that makes him his own villain, a new character, worthy of being the next Dark Lord of the Sith. He followed through on what Vader said he'd do in Sith and in Empire; he betrayed his master and seized power for himself.
• The Force was used like magic in this movie. Leia's willing herself back onto the ship, Snoke's connecting the minds, Luke's interplanetary illusion -- some of those were cool moments, undoubtedly, but they go way beyond the powers of the Force we've seen before, at least outside of the '03 Clone Wars, The Force Unleashed, and that last series of EU novels that we don't talk about.
• The framework of the story isn't a rehash of Empire -- it is, however, practically a condensed rehash of the events between Star Wars and Empire, from the escape from Yavin IV up through the Battle of Hoth. I'm not sure how I feel about this.
• It's a minor complaint, but The Last Jedi continues a trend in the new canon movies of using the powers of hyperspace quite liberally. Want to escape some pirates? Jump into hyperspace from within a hangar bay. Want to escape a test of the Death Star? Jump to hyperspace from within an atmosphere. Want to sneak in past sensors and shields? Revert to realspace within an atmosphere. Want to take out a massive ship? Aim at it and jump to hyperspace. Okay, the last one should probably work, and the EU had the Galaxy Gun, so sure, I guess. But traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops.
• Ooh, can't forget to comment on the music: John Williams was great as always, but there was no single theme that stood out to me, you know? Star Wars has the Main Theme and the Force Theme, Empire has the Imperial March and Han and Leia's Theme, Menace has Duel of the Fates, Clones has Across the Stars, Sith has Battle of the Heroes, The Force Awakens has Rey's Theme -- there was no new piece of music that stood out in this movie (and to be fair, Jedi is missing from my list above).

I have to admit that, ultimately, all of my complaints about this movie are due to the fact that I'm so attached to the original films and books. It's a fine standalone film. I would not care where Rey came from or whether or not the movie had a Star Wars tone or what the Force could do if I wasn't attached to the Star Wars I grew up with.

Also, Luke got the death he deserved. One of the best death scenes in the saga. But I'm mad because it happened in this movie and I wanted at least one more movie with Mark Hamill being the Jedi hero in-universe and being the awesome person we all want our childhood actors to turn out to be in real life.  I'm sure he'll get Force Ghost appearances and I know that these new movies aren't about him and objectively I know that it's a better movie this way.

I think this would've been a better movie had it been cut about ten minutes short. Roll credits with Luke staring into the sunset.

My ranking of films, from best to worst, is now: Empire, Star Wars, Jedi, Rogue One, The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, Sith, Menace, Clones.

My viewing order remains Star Wars, Empire, Clones, Sith, Jedi, then read the Thrawn Trilogy.

[BrickG]

To be fair I liked a few things.

Unlike most people I wanted Rey to have unimportant parents. I like that she came from nothing. I want this to not change. Not EVERYTHING has to be connected. Anakin was made by Plaguis, who had Luke, who thankfully isn't Rey's father and nobody else important seems to be.
I liked this theme of coming from nothing. Yeah, it doesn't explain why she's so POWERFUL. But I don't think it has to. She's a random aberration and seemingly nothing more. And we've not seen enough of the Star Wars universe (espeically now that canon has changed) to say that isn't possible.

Snoke I'm still upset had so much buildup and turned out to be nothing. ANY time buildup is so BIG and it turns out to be nothing it's just disappointing to me. 

Phasma was equally as lame. She fought and beat Finn who was LUCKY and saved by an elevator. The she died. I'd rather she lived. I read the BOOKS and like Snoke she has a LOT of build-up outside of the movies. Then she just dies in a disappointing way.
Well, she fell in a fireball which we know it's recoverable in TV and movies lol...

I also have issues with some of the force powers used. Well, just a bit. I think VII really did better though.
I loved in VII Kylo Ren's like ability to "pause" things. It looked cool and meanacing. We got almost none of that here aside from Snoke doing it to Rey (but more effectively). Snoke has some cool moments and seems legit INCREDIBLY powerful but he just dies because Kylo is able to pass Snoke's lie detector. I guess that's fiiiine but whatever.
Superman Leia was lame.
Illusion luke was nice. Honestly I was worried he'd just be alive because he, like Leia, is also Superman. I'm glad it was an illusion and that makes sense.

I thinkt he Force just didn't seem as mysterious and more of a superpower in this. I mean the old Expanded Universe did the same thing sometimes and the Force wasn't mysterious at all in EU. But with the new canon came the mystery again and BAM, they just overexplain stuff too much and just make it look like super powers. I did not need that one slowmotion scene too.

Maz's appearance was lame. She didn't really have a legit reason to appear except as a cameo. 

I did not like ANYTHING in the Casino scenes. DJ was a life lesson we didn't need. The CGI was incredibly bad.

R2D2 did nothing. I kind of wish they gave him something to do. But I guess "in with the old out with the new" is one of the themes. 

Too many battles. I never thought I'd say that about Star Wars.

Each Star Wars basically had like 2-3 battles.
New Hope: Escape the Star Destroyer, death star insides and the slow but effective Obi vs Vader, Death Star
ESB: Hoth, cloud city fights, Luke vs Vader.
RotJ: Jabba's palace, Ewoks part 1 and 2, Death Star

The Last Jedi: I can't even freakin' remember. I remember when the Crait stuff happened I was like "again? Is this a Micheal Bay movie?". So many large battles. So much going on. The whole movie was overstuffed in general.

I feel like if you cut like 30 minutes of the fluff this movie would be much better... I enjoyed the themes. I had much fewer issues with the non-fluff stuff and the CORE of the movie. In fact I think I liked the CORE of the movie. I'd probably still have issues with Snoke but I like that part. It's just there's so much unnessesary stuff EVERYWHERE. Cheesy scenes every couple minutes (looking at you lame ironing thing), cheesy lines ("REBEL scum"), blablabla.
Can't wait for a fan edit...
 

[Schneeds]

I tried to like this movie, I really did, but the humor is just plain awful.  It's out of place, it's cheesey, and it's forced.  Luke throwing away his father's lightsaber?  The shirtless joke?  Luke brushing his shoulder off? 

They turned it into a bad marvel movie.  It was like Episode II, only it was even more pointless.  Perhaps I'll come to enjoy it over time like I have even the terrible prequel movies, but this just has too much obvious Kathleen Kennedy/Disney influence written all over it and they did not stay true to Lucas at all. 

[Supersonic]

1 hour ago, Schneeds said:

I tried to like this movie, I really did, but the humor is just plain awful.  It's out of place, it's cheesey, and it's forced.  Luke throwing away his father's lightsaber?  The shirtless joke?  Luke brushing his shoulder off? 

They turned it into a bad marvel movie.

I've read this sentiment a few times and it perplexes me. Humor has always been an essential part of Star Wars; if anything, Marvel copied it from SW due to the latter's success. Every single SW movie has had it, TLJ had a little more than others but it also runs a lot longer.

[Ultron]

So I loved the movie, but can we talk about how horrible Finn is? He sucks! Phasma kicks his butt and then he hits Phasma when she's not prepared and she gets punished by falling to her death (though I believe she's still alive. She's too marketable). He really is scum as she said! Not to mention his arc in TFA is crap. He has a problem with the First Order killing a bunch of people and his stormtrooper buddies dying and then turns around and blows them all up in starkiller base. I was quite upset that Rose saved him and he didn't die. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Ultron

[RetroInferno]

The ONE thing I didnt like was Snoke's death; he was for me one of the most interesting character, highly hyped up from TFA, he probably was around since the prequels, ridiculously powerfull. He built the first order from the looks of it too!

I'm really in denial about it at the moment; maybe he can cheat death? Was he a force projection?

I don't believe Kylo to be the main lone antagonist in the next movie...

[TheAmazingDarkKnight]

10 hours ago, Supersonic said:

I've read this sentiment a few times and it perplexes me. Humor has always been an essential part of Star Wars; if anything, Marvel copied it from SW due to the latter's success. Every single SW movie has had it, TLJ had a little more than others but it also runs a lot longer.

Finally, someone gets it. All the Star Wars films have had a bit of humor / cheesy lines, but it's always depended on when the film released. Empire is actually a lot more comedic than I recall, but it's very subtle; reflecting the time it was released. I will agree, however, the very first joke fell flat. So much so, I was actually concerned it was going to be too humorous, and not take things seriously as I was hoping. Thankfully, the rest of the movie happened and my concerns were alleviated.  

The film needed some times to lighten the mood. There's literally a scene where the heroine shanks two people; gotta balance the darkness with some light. 

[ChiefPie]

Parts of this movie I liked and parts I didn’t. They definitely should have ended the movie with the falcon in hyperspace. Luke’s force projection and death wasn’t as bad as I read it to be. However I still prefer like to be alive in ep 9. Love how Luke winked at c3po. Have to see this again. Otherwise I will say it’s more enjoyable then AOTC.

[Brickdoctor]

43 minutes ago, TheAmazingDarkKnight said:

Finally, someone gets it. All the Star Wars films have had a bit of humor / cheesy lines, but it's always depended on when the film released. Empire is actually a lot more comedic than I recall, but it's very subtle; reflecting the time it was released.

That doesn't mean it's a good fit for the tone of a Star Wars film. The "Threepio becomes a battle droid" subplot in Clones, for example, wasn't funny or fitting then and it isn't funny or fitting now.

[Cypirate]

I'd like to make a point about the resistance bombers as I have seen quite a few people complaining about how they used gravity to drop their bombs while being in 0g.

First, we see the crew members walking normally on ship decks all of the time in Star Wars whereas they should be floating around if they are in the 0g of space right? I don't know whether the explanation for this behavior is that there are gravity generators inside ships or simply that it's a movie so it doesn't really matter so long as it looks better.

Secondly, who said they were just dropped? I might need to re-watch the movie but it looks fairly plausible to me that they are not dropped but launched at relatively low speed along rails on the sides, making them like a very slow missile.

I also want to point out that I loved the way the bomber were really slow. I'm glad they didn't make them over-powered ships with huge 'firepower' and speed.

[Supersonic]

No idea why this of all things bothers people - physics are usually not considered in Star Wars. The way fighters move in space is 100% the way airplanes would behave within the Earth's atmosphere because it looks good, even if it's not realistic at all.

[Japanbuilder]

I am cool with Rey just being Rey. 

I mean do people ask who are Kit Fisto's parents? Or Obi Wan's? 

Like all those Jedi from the Prequels she is just a person born strong in the force. 

Personally I took it as a huge public rebuff of that awful midichlorian idea from the prequels (even though they're still canon). 

But it does sorta restore some of that old charm about the force. 

[Schneeds]

11 hours ago, TheAmazingDarkKnight said:

Finally, someone gets it. All the Star Wars films have had a bit of humor / cheesy lines, but it's always depended on when the film released. Empire is actually a lot more comedic than I recall, but it's very subtle; reflecting the time it was released. I will agree, however, the very first joke fell flat. So much so, I was actually concerned it was going to be too humorous, and not take things seriously as I was hoping. Thankfully, the rest of the movie happened and my concerns were alleviated.  

The film needed some times to lighten the mood. There's literally a scene where the heroine shanks two people; gotta balance the darkness with some light. 

There's a difference between subtle humor invoked through quality acting, versus cheesy juvenile one-liners.  The opening dialog with Poe and Hux was absolute garbage.  Luke throwing away the saber after the powerful ending of the TFA?  They took all the great work of Daisy and JJ and just threw it in the trash.  Luke brushing his shoulder off in the middle of a battle?  Maybe he should have done a mic drop as well. 

No one wanted to like this movie more than I did, and I still really like TFA, but 3/4 of this movie is garbage.  Disney didn't need to disrespect and tear apart the OT to move the saga a long and reinvent it; they just choose to. 

[Whovastron]

15 hours ago, Ultron said:

So I loved the movie, but can we talk about how horrible Finn is? He sucks! Phasma kicks his butt and then he hits Phasma when she's not prepared and she gets punished by falling to her death (though I believe she's still alive. She's too marketable). He really is scum as she said! Not to mention his arc in TFA is crap. He has a problem with the First Order killing a bunch of people and his stormtrooper buddies dying and then turns around and blows them all up in starkiller base. I was quite upset that Rose saved him and he didn't die. 

I really liked Finn. Out of the 4 main new characters (Rey, Finn, Poe and Kylo) I found Kylo’s arc in TLJ the best, followed by Poe, then Finn , then Rey (I’ll get onto that)

he blew them up in star killer base cause they are the murderous scum that took his life, aswell as killed all those innocents from earlier. And him killing Phasma was simply cause he had an advantage, wouldn’t you take that opportunity?

i think his arc of learning not to run and to fight is very well done, and if he had died it would have been fitting.

now Rey, people say her arc is great, I disagree. Everything that happens to her is because someone else puts it on her. Luke inspires her to start the Jedi differently, Snoke makes her grow her relationship with Kylo. She just seemed very Neo to me in that she was a blank slate for people to imprint on. Maybe it’s cause I find Daisy Ridley as someone who is very unlikeable, but I really went off of Rey in this film, despite loving her in The Force Awakens.

[Ordinareo]

The movie is far from perfect, but it is a good movie with great scenes nevertheless. The only thing that disappointed me was Snoke, what the hell happened? They were building him up to be the next big bad guy for Episode VIII and IX and they just kill him off. What a waste of a could of been good character. That's my only complaint, movie was great, Snoke went out like a chump. Definitely my least favorite villain of the Star Wars saga and universe as a whole.

Can i just say I am happy Yoda appeared in the movie, he was just straight up badass for the few minutes he was in.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Ordinareo

[CMP]

Kind of glad Rey is a nobody.

They did a fantastic job with Luke. I liked Leia a lot, and I understand what the whole flying-in-space was going for, but...they went over the top with it a bit. Quick aside about Leia: I feel like if they were going to kill her off (I was expecting a vague force ghost-y ending of some sort) I feel like it would've happened in this movie. I'm suspecting that they've written her out of Episode IX so that, even with Carrie Fisher gone, Leia will live on in the EU. I hope so.

I feel like Finn was just along for the ride when Rose went about trying to save the day, and I almost believed they might actually kill him off (I feel like even Poe got more focus than him).

Kylo Ren has been redeemed! Character-wise, at least. I hope he's serious about letting the past die and his fascination with Vader ends.

Snoke...I mean, I feel like killing him off was the right move to advanced Kylo's story, but...we learned absolutely zip about where the hell he came from and what his deal was, and I don't think it makes sense for the story to focus any more on him, so...I dunno. I guess it took an entire prequel trilogy to understand The Emperor, so maybe then we'll figure him out? 

To be honest, I can't shake the feeling that to address concerns that the movie would turn out too much like Empire, they...really just mixed things around a bit. Let's having the training scenes first, put Cloud City in the middle, follow up with the Emperor's Throne Room* and have Hoth happen at the end. Nobody will notice.  It's not as overt an homage as The Force Awakens was, but, phew...as long as they don't pull Phasma out of that chasm in a brick of carbonite, it could've been worse. 

* I have to add, the throne room is the first time I feel like such a tribute has actively negatively impacted an otherwise excellent scene - the first half is predictable to the point I felt as though time was being wasted. 

Need to re-watch it again at some point. Dad said he was literally on the verge of tears when Luke died watching the binary sunset. Right up there with Yoda's. 

In his words, it felt like a movie for Star Wars fans, which I agree with. Just about anybody can grasp The Force Awakens, but (and I can't believe I'm about to say this ) a background on the philosophy of the Force - that is, some of the most dialogue-heavy parts of all the previous movies - is important to understanding some of the best parts of the movie. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by CMP

[Japanbuilder]

Just peeking back at what is being written in the thread and it seems the movie has garnered a lot of reactions and points of view. 

I knew walking out of the theater it was going to be instantly divisive within the fan base. I was mostly shocked at my own reaction in that I accepted it all. 

The series is in transition so to speak. No longer is Lucas helming the overall vision, the original cast is literally dying off and a new generation of youngsters will have new heroes to anchor them to the series. 

The thing with Snoke? I say good riddance. The story is the last of the Skywalker saga and as such it is about Kylo Ren. Snoke served his purpose now erase that cartoon off the screen.

Luke using all of his might to his last breath to keep hope alive? I am fine with that. I actually loved how his arch ended with him looking at twin suns. 

Likewise, from the get go were we supposed to take these villains all that seriously? I mean Snoke common? Kylo fighting a shadow in front of all his troops? Hah! In EPIX I predict the FO will shoot itself in the face, just like Kylo slicing Snoke. I would not respect Kylo after a display like that if I was in his army. And taken altogether these people have galactic ambitions? When Snoke was berating Kylo he may as well have been berating himself. 

Finn is Finn he represents that aspect of Star Wars that no one knows what to do with (Stormtroopers) so likewise he is just there in the movie taking up minutes. A shame really there is something there to work with but they choose not to see it or not engage it. 

Everything else: plot armor, but it is not thinner or thicker than it was in the OT or PT so I can live with it. 

All in all for a franchise in transition I really loved TLJ. I liked being surprised, I liked how messy it all is. I hope they keep throwing curve balls like that going forward. 

But that is just me, the movie did its job as a movie. I was oogly eyed all through it and it made me really crave the coming of EPIX.